Food Balance Issue

[Zomagoras]

Currently the hydration and nutrition depletion rates feel WAY too high. As a bank just walking around earlier I lost a full hunger bar in about 8-10 minutes. The ration cycles are infrequent so you can rely on that, but even then the pay cycles are also too infrequent were you don't paid fast enough to eat food. This ♥♥♥♥♥ like real life, work to get paid to eat so I can work to get paid.

Hydration isnt as bad since you can drink from what fountains, but any cooking station is locked behind a building purchase and just makes it difficult.

Anyone else feeling this?

[BunnyAlex321]

Definitely can relate. Today was my first time playing after patch 12b and even as corpsemen it jut felt concerning how fast it decreased, like sure I can out-heal thirst & hunger but it's going down way too much. I mean sure, I'm pretty sure they heavily buffed stamina regen rate and 100% sure they buffed item spawn rates/speed, allowing you to get food faster but it still sucks. They definitely shadow increased the rate of your decay in sanity, food, & thirst.

All food items besides the ones that need kitchens suck, even the rations (because they're so annoying to actually get) as they replenish so little food; sure I can fish for food but that forces me to take trips to water fountains as hydration decreases and the club as sanity decreases. Sure dented food cans are really common now but they do take away a little bit of your health, (I think though am unsure due to not ever getting them) cause worms, and don't even regen that much food anyways. And then dumpster rats are just dented food cans but even worse; high chance of getting worms and like 0.5% food. Even if kitchen access was available those still require a bunch of certain items to make good foods; I can't be asked to make myself a hearty meal out of bonecorn products when I'll just spend half my hunger bar waiting for the bonecorn to even grow at the greenhouse (and pots aren't really that much better considering despawns).

Even before they heavily increased the rate of status decay food felt really annoying to get because rations cycles take WAY too long to start, have no timer anywhere to indicate when they happen, can't supply rations if nobody works the factory, ration thieves are annoying to get rid of (goodbye karma & anam for killing them), and scum are even able to break the dispensers, or ♥♥♥♥ with proles trying to make rations as one of the underground entrances is literally right next to the ration factory.

[Necroscourge]

I have thought long and hard about this, because to a certain extent there IS supposed to food scarcity. But walking around for six hours in one city I definitely noticed there was extreme scarcity, to where you really do need to chop people up and eat them to survive.

Food balance right now, as others mention, is beyond strict. Many crafted foods barely give you any nutrition at all, the spawn rate on the stuff needed to make them is far too low for their current rates. Rations help but you can't really survive off them, and farming does not yield enough to feed more than one person.

The alternative is Dealernet food, but those darned Dealers/Bankers/Shops never seem to have any on them because of how fast they sell out. Dey neva hav da gabbagool!

[RobynTheDevil]

get 5 am and play doctor to farm up to 50

low on thirst -> water fountain
low on hunger -> die and get a new body

only eat when you actively need to store items or credits.

[Randall Civil]

Default tickrate was doubled from 30 to 60. This has had the effect of doubling/halving most status effects. Items probably despawn faster too.

If it's intentional, it surely is a strange way of motivating the economy considering there will always be a food bottleneck- bought food from DealerNet's prices range to 20-100 credits per item means that most of the time nobody will be able to afford food without cortex giving out many commendations.

There aren't physically enough bonecorn plots to feed more than one person's hunger bar for the time investment, and with the time it takes to cook surstromming I doubt you can reasonably get a net nutrition gain out of fishing.

[BunnyAlex321]

Originally posted by Randall Civil:

....and with the time it takes to cook surstromming I doubt you can reasonably get a net nutrition gain out of fishing.

True, you have to:
- Get 2 plastic
- Craft a jar with 2 plastic
- Get a weapon if you haven't already
- Travel all the way down to the docks
- Wait for & catch fish (takes awhile, even longer depending on competition)
- Go to a kitchen (hard to find and expensive to buy a property with one, especially if even vacant properties with kitchens have locked doors so you can't squat for 5 minutes)
- Place jar & fish on stove
- Click the crafting recipe and wait like a minute, then click serve, and then click consume

ALL of that for only 20 nourishment, 25% chance for 1 minute of parasites, and contraband meaning it's risky to carry in bulk

If you just wanted to eat fish, that's fine, however it only gives 5 nourishment so you need to fish for 4x as long, not to mention how raw fish can also give parasites (unknown duration & chance of getting), reduces thirst, and reduces sanity

[vaypon97]

Originally posted by RobynTheDevil:

get 5 am and play doctor to farm up to 50

low on thirst -> water fountain
low on hunger -> die and get a new body

only eat when you actively need to store items or credits.

Min/maxing a game intended for RP is not a constructive solution

[FurryFix]

There is such a thing, "Surströmming" is called. It greatly overpowers other food recipes. If you have access to a stove, five fish is enough to completely satisfy your hunger. After I bought an apartment, I stopped needing food at all.

[BunnyAlex321]

Originally posted by FurryFix:

There is such a thing, "Surströmming" is called. It greatly overpowers other food recipes. If you have access to a stove, five fish is enough to completely satisfy your hunger. After I bought an apartment, I stopped needing food at all.

Surstromming is a hassle to get to be honest, you have to craft a jar which means you need to savenge/buy 2 plastic and go fishing, then run back to a place that has a kitchen, which could take little time, or a long one. After that you have to wait for it to cook, which could take like a minute or two or five depending on how many jars you have.

Plus, it's risky to even make some to eat later as it's contraband, and while you can sell to vents as it's contraband you get an atrociously small amount of credits that laundry pays better, and you don't even get to keep the jar.

[FurryFix]

Originally posted by BunnyAlex321:

Originally posted by FurryFix:

There is such a thing, "Surströmming" is called. It greatly overpowers other food recipes. If you have access to a stove, five fish is enough to completely satisfy your hunger. After I bought an apartment, I stopped needing food at all.

Surstromming is a hassle to get to be honest, you have to craft a jar which means you need to savenge/buy 2 plastic and go fishing, then run back to a place that has a kitchen, which could take little time, or a long one. After that you have to wait for it to cook, which could take like a minute or two or five depending on how many jars you have.

Plus, it's risky to even make some to eat later as it's contraband, and while you can sell to vents as it's contraband you get an atrociously small amount of credits that laundry pays better, and you don't even get to keep the jar.

Yes, you need a jar, but literally one jar is enough for you until the game is over. How hard is it to find 2 plastics, considering that you will have a jar forever.

Yes, you need to fish, but you can get 20 fish and you can satisfy your hunger completely 4 times. Fishing is very easy at the moment and if the ration factory is full, no one is fishing.

Yes, it's considered contraband, but you don't carry it with you. You cook, you eat, you put the jar back in the fish box. Cooking fish 5 times in a single jar takes about two and a half minutes.

If you have an apartment with a stove, the Surströmming is OP right now.

[BunnyAlex321]

Originally posted by FurryFix:

Yes, you need to fish, but you can get 20 fish and you can satisfy your hunger completely 4 times. Fishing is very easy at the moment and if the ration factory is full, no one is fishing.

Fishing is very easy, sure.
Fishing is also very slow and very annoying, it's repetitive as well and there's always a chance to fish a leech
Not to mention there's an entrance to the underground right next to the ration factory, which is right next to the docks, so scum can just pop out and kill you

As for the contraband part, I already know you don't carry it on your person, however as it's contraband that means you can't put it in your locker and so have to use property storage, so if you get limited or there's just a limitation order cortex can just kick your doors down and will 100% confiscate contraband, including your surstromming.

[FurryFix]

Originally posted by BunnyAlex321:

Bro, if you're worried about contraband, then don't keep your food cooked. Fold the jar, fold the fish, and when necessary, just cook, it's such a basic thing, why am I explaining this at all?

Cortex will steal all your stuff, whether it's contraband or not. They kick down the door, take all the things and stuff them into their locker.

Originally posted by BunnyAlex321:

Fishing is also very slow and very annoying

Well, in that case, you can go search the RNG trash cans to find, for example, a rat and a can. Or go grow corn. It's definitely not monotonous and slow, is it? It's definitely faster than catching a fish, isn't it?

Originally posted by BunnyAlex321:

there's an entrance to the underground right next to the ration factory, which is right next to the docks, so scum can just pop out and kill you

Dude, from this point, you're picking on me to prove to someone, "Hey, look, I'm right, he's wrong." They have exits all over the map. If they come out like that, it's either a massive raid that can happen anywhere, or you don't have a Cortex, in which case you don't have to fish, the server will be takeover by the rot soon.

I just want to say that the Surströmming is a relatively easiest way to satisfy hunger. Only buying food directly will be easier than cooking fish in a jar.

[Marcelin]

steal other peoples ration bars bro, ez

[JamesDreemurr]

Eating rats, bread, fish and canned soup shouldn't be like you are literally eating Air it honestly restores less hunger than you lose in the time it takes to open the bag and mouse over them on the ground

[BunnyAlex321]

Originally posted by JamesDreemurr:

Eating rats, bread, fish and canned soup shouldn't be like you are literally eating Air it honestly restores less hunger than you lose in the time it takes to open the bag and mouse over them on the ground

I love in desperation, finding a dumpster rat and eating it for 2 nourishment points which instantly fade, as now I'm not only starving but I also have worms

[BunnyAlex321]

Originally posted by FurryFix:

Bro, if you're worried about contraband, then don't keep your food cooked. Fold the jar, fold the fish, and when necessary, just cook, it's such a basic thing, why am I explaining this at all?

When you have to start metagaming to eat a jar of fish without it getting stolen or confiscated then it's a problem

Originally posted by FurryFix:

Well, in that case, you can go search the RNG trash cans to find, for example, a rat and a can. Or go grow corn. It's definitely not monotonous and slow, is it? It's definitely faster than catching a fish, isn't it?

Okay, sure it's the best option out of the bunch, but that still doesn't mean fishing is good.

Originally posted by FurryFix:

Dude, from this point, you're picking on me to prove to someone, "Hey, look, I'm right, he's wrong." They have exits all over the map. If they come out like that, it's either a massive raid that can happen anywhere, or you don't have a Cortex, in which case you don't have to fish, the server will be takeover by the rot soon.

Fair enough, but in reality I just wanted to point out how hunger is really hard to satiate and how sure, Surströmming is a good food for regaining hunger, but it's also flawed and really hard to obtain. Also it feels ehh to say it'll be a massive raid and such, scum are incentivized to surface as soon as they get a pipe because they can start destroying stuff, and due to increased spawn rates + temporary coal nodes they're much more likely and quicker to arm themselves with guns. As for having no cortex, it's more like cortex just not being there; the docks and the area near it is personally for me to consider as low-medium traffic, so therefore there's less players and less chance of cortex being present.

In the end I just wanted to say I'm sorry if my constant counterpoints are annoying, I like debating things with people and I also really like this game and want to see it flourish and so want to talk about it and what I believe about it a lot. Again, sorry for the counterarguments & such, I'm just really passionate.