Tips for Fighter class?

[JIMTOMAV]

I have played Bandit and Mystic 0-25 and am now part way through a Fighter play-through.

With the previous 2 I could kite all day long, which worked well for me but I cant do that with fighter.

I am currently choosing between Polearm or S+S.
Other than Stomp and Rage, are there any active skills people would recommend in addition to tactics, especially when dealing with groups or bosses?

[CR48]

Publicado originalmente por ManiacOverlord:

Fighter is honestly kinda disappointing. The only really unique thing it has going for it is damage reflection on parry and shield tanking. You basically need a shield of some kind to make the most of it. Otherwise you're just using standard autoattack.

agreed, Fighter should have block chance instead of block threshold (with shield) like Bandit and evasion have. It would also be neat if Cyclone could work with both Shield or Heavy melee

[SoulHero7]

Publicado originalmente por ManiacOverlord:

Fighter is honestly kinda disappointing. The only really unique thing it has going for it is damage reflection on parry and shield tanking. You basically need a shield of some kind to make the most of it. Otherwise you're just using standard autoattack.

Fighter is the best Aggro puller of the 3 classes, and Rage makes every class do more consistent raw damage. Stomp, Cyclone, and Rock Throw all generate huge amounts of aggro. Rock Throw is as much of a Fighter skill as Spread Shot is essentially a Bandit skill.

And you don't need a shield to parry at all, it's only required for Shield Bash and taking less damage when do you get hit.

[ManiacOverlord.ttv]

Publicado originalmente por SoulHero7:

Publicado originalmente por ManiacOverlord:

Fighter is honestly kinda disappointing. The only really unique thing it has going for it is damage reflection on parry and shield tanking. You basically need a shield of some kind to make the most of it. Otherwise you're just using standard autoattack.

Fighter is the best Aggro puller of the 3 classes, and Rage makes every class do more consistent raw damage. Stomp, Cyclone, and Rock Throw all generate huge amounts of aggro. Rock Throw is as much of a Fighter skill as Spread Shot is essentially a Bandit skill.

And you don't need a shield to parry at all, it's only required for Shield Bash and taking less damage when do you get hit.

Youre right, Fighter is the best aggro puller. Because iirc it has the only skill that actually generates hate from the enemies.

And solo, what does it have to offer? Block. Sword and board for the shield bash, and is the only class to have any form of "damage on parry".

The fighter is a dedicated tank role that's boring to play. Either you parryspam, shield bash, and Stomp a lot for the debuff and taunt, or you spin 2 win with jump attack spam. That's pretty much it.

Cyclone is pointless because ideally you're drawing aggro and won't really have an opening to use it optimally, and the only other option besides the Bleed skill is the charged attack that you're gonna struggle to get a significant number of enemies lined up for (and that you're never going to have an opening to use without Shield Bash).

It's a powerful class, just by virtue of its defensive options being ludicrously good. But you're basically going to be playing a turtle 90% of the time. I was really hoping to have more offensively focused options with it.

[SoulHero7]

Publicado originalmente por ManicOverlord:

It's a powerful class, just by virtue of its defensive options being ludicrously good. But you're basically going to be playing a turtle 90% of the time. I was really hoping to have more offensively focused options with it.

This I completely agree with. Blood Gush does the same strong damage regardless of weapon so I'm not even including that.

I feel like the heavy weapons and polearms should have stronger offensive skills designed for 2-handed weapons and not just relying on their Charge Attacks.

[Smug Kot]

It's very early and jobs will get specs (second jobs), figther right now does the most consistent damage without spending many resources, still the lowest dps job compared to others, because crit is overtunned and bandit is the only job can get lot's of crits meanwhile mystic double dips with its own buff and fluxbolt spam, and I know people love dps, but hey, roll a mystic for that then I guess.

At least reflect scales with the monster and not you, so in some cases, would give you a huge dps increase vs certain mobs.

Also Cyclone is not pointless, pure skill issue there.

[ManiacOverlord.ttv]

Publicado originalmente por Smug Kot:

It's very early and jobs will get specs (second jobs), figther right now does the most consistent damage without spending many resources, still the lowest dps job compared to others, because crit is overtunned and bandit is the only job can get lot's of crits meanwhile mystic double dips with its own buff and fluxbolt spam, and I know people love dps, but hey, roll a mystic for that then I guess.

At least reflect scales with the monster and not you, so in some cases, would give you a huge dps increase vs certain mobs.

Also Cyclone is not pointless, pure skill issue there.

Oh absolutely, like I said it IS a very powerful class.
I'm hoping that it does gain more actively-offensive options in the future though.

[mr.kitty]

Something I think should be noted is that shields may only give their bonuses while wielded, but their bonuses aren't to be taken lightly. Enchantments give the same values on both one and two handed, so enchanting your sword & shield is actually twice as effective as enchanting your two-hander.

For reference I'll give some numbers for 'Killer' enchanted mithril sword & shield vs greatsword:
-Sword + shield combined: 14-18 base damage, +16 ATK power, 1.53% crit chance
[Also 8 DEF, 1 mDEF, 3 magic power]
-Greatsword: 19-22 base damage, +11 ATK power, 1.94% crit chance
[Also 3 stamina & 3 max HP]
NOTE: Shield is 16 instead of 15, so should be giving 1 less ATK & 0.05% less crit chance here

Sword also seems to swing roughly twice as fast as greatsword, so the DPS ends up higher. Two-handers have bigger swings but ime when everything is coming at you, you end up hitting most everything anyway even with one-handed. As long as your parry game is on point S&S should be better for DPS-focused fighters. If it's not then maybe the reach is gonna be just that important? There's a bit of nuance in practice, but for both the numbers and my experience while playing, S&S seems generally better (I do like big swords though).

~Unrelated to that:
Crit being "overtuned" is something I've not really noticed. Haven't done the math because I don't know how much damage each point of attack/etc power gives to weapons/spells, so hard to say 100%, but if anyone could explain the numbers for damage scaling I'd appreciate it.

[Smug Kot]

Publicado originalmente por mr.kitty:

Something I think should be noted is that shields may only give their bonuses while wielded, but their bonuses aren't to be taken lightly. Enchantments give the same values on both one and two handed, so enchanting your sword & shield is actually twice as effective as enchanting your two-hander.

For reference I'll give some numbers for 'Killer' enchanted mithril sword & shield vs greatsword:
-Sword + shield combined: 14-18 base damage, +16 ATK power, 1.53% crit chance
[Also 8 DEF, 1 mDEF, 3 magic power]
-Greatsword: 19-22 base damage, +11 ATK power, 1.94% crit chance
[Also 3 stamina & 3 max HP]
NOTE: Shield is 16 instead of 15, so should be giving 1 less ATK & 0.05% less crit chance here

Sword also seems to swing roughly twice as fast as greatsword, so the DPS ends up higher. Two-handers have bigger swings but ime when everything is coming at you, you end up hitting most everything anyway even with one-handed. As long as your parry game is on point S&S should be better for DPS-focused fighters. If it's not then maybe the reach is gonna be just that important? There's a bit of nuance in practice, but for both the numbers and my experience while playing, S&S seems generally better (I do like big swords though).

~Unrelated to that:
Crit being "overtuned" is something I've not really noticed. Haven't done the math because I don't know how much damage each point of attack/etc power gives to weapons/spells, so hard to say 100%, but if anyone could explain the numbers for damage scaling I'd appreciate it.

Heavy has the worst AA dps, but the charge and jump attack are pretty good, sword is good all-around, not the best, not the worst. Crit is a x2 damage modifier, that is insane, specially for bandit that can easy reach 30%+ crit with enhancements and its buff, making it absurdly the best dps class if you get a lot those crits in a row.

But if we count all buffs, mystic ends winning the dps race, because double dips figther buff and it's own buff, mystic party buff is very selfish for now since it's the only magic class, wouldn't be surprised if Kiseff remove the extra magic damage for something else everyone can use.

[mr.kitty]

Publicado originalmente por Smug Kot:

Crit is a x2 damage modifier, that is insane, specially for bandit that can easy reach 30%+ crit with enhancements and its buff, making it absurdly the best dps class if you get a lot those crits in a row.

Was already aware of how much damage crits give. 30% chance of 2x damage is on average +30% DPS, which if you're also already scaling your power to the moon as well is indeed gonna be the best DPS.

Was hoping for someone to explain how weapon damage scaling specifically works. As in how many points of damage per point of e.g. attack power on a strength weapon. So that I can crunch those numbers on a spreadsheet or something. I like math.

[JIMTOMAV]

Publicado originalmente por mr.kitty:

Publicado originalmente por Smug Kot:

Crit is a x2 damage modifier, that is insane, specially for bandit that can easy reach 30%+ crit with enhancements and its buff, making it absurdly the best dps class if you get a lot those crits in a row.

Was already aware of how much damage crits give. 30% chance of 2x damage is on average +30% DPS, which if you're also already scaling your power to the moon as well is indeed gonna be the best DPS.

Was hoping for someone to explain how weapon damage scaling specifically works. As in how many points of damage per point of e.g. attack power on a strength weapon. So that I can crunch those numbers on a spreadsheet or something. I like math.

Going to rip from the wiki "Game mechanics" page

"
Base Damage Floor + ( Attack Power * 0.128)
Base Damage Ceiling + (Attack Power * 0.32)
"

*Same number apply for dex and magic powers.

"
The max weapon damage that can be achieved through scaling is the same for all weapon types, and is given by the formula below:

Weapon Max Damage
Max Damage Floor = Base Damage Floor * (1.15 + (Equipment Level * 0.048))
Max Damage Ceiling = Base Damage Ceiling * (1.15 + (Equipment Level * 0.062))
If the Equipment Level of the weapon is 4 or below, the following formula is used instead:

Weapon Max Damage (Low-Level Weapons)
Max Damage Floor = Base Damage Floor * 1.85
Max Damage Ceiling = Base Damage Ceiling * 1.25
Note that for both sets of formulas (weapon scaling and max damage), any decimal values are always rounded down to the nearest integer to give you your final value.

Power Threshold
The maximum Attack, Dexterity, or Magic Power stat limit at which a weapon's outgoing damage, both floor and ceiling, will yield no further growth.

You will know a weapon has reached it's max damage as indicated by yellow numbers on the weapon details window.
"

Im going to make a spreadsheet myself to try to understand how this will effect it and at what level specific weapons will no longer increase in damage.

[Smug Kot]

kinda outdated as weapons now don't have cap, and theres dimish returns, rarity of the weapon and level, all affecting how much it will scale.

[mr.kitty]

Publicado originalmente por Smug Kot:

kinda outdated as weapons now don't have cap, and theres dimish returns, rarity of the weapon and level, all affecting how much it will scale.

Interesting... So in other words we need new math.
Think I like the sound of the new system better, even if it's gonna make the math a bit tough. Maybe I'll do some book stat resetting experiments at some point. Thanks y'all.

For now I'll just leave this here (math for serrated blade AKA level 17 weapon at high power, with items giving some big bonuses; level 19, btw):
(attack power) resulting damage
(base) 16-23
(61) 24-38
(76) 26-42
(101) 30-49
(136) 35-58

[JIMTOMAV]

Publicado originalmente por Smug Kot:

kinda outdated as weapons now don't have cap, and theres dimish returns, rarity of the weapon and level, all affecting how much it will scale.

Any up to date resources which include equations and/or values?

[mr.kitty]

In case anyone was curious, a level 19 fighter with fully enchanted though maybe not fully maxed DPS equipment (had mostly level 16/17 stuff, red circlet for 2% crit but it's a level 10 item), can kill the level 20 boss in under a minute if you parry everything that comes your way. Maybe even under 45 seconds. Crit chance was at 11.27%, ATK power was at 136 (Serrated blade thus dealing 35-58 as stated above). This was pretty comparable to my katars bandit maxed DPS run. Mostly just used Rage, Stomp, & Gore, but did use Sturdy once or twice because it's so nice for not having to be on edge while swinging.

By maxed DPS, I naturally mean nothing but Killer enchants on Fighter and 'Precise' enchants for Bandit, and ONLY their main power stat.