Reminder the game is still being developed

[C at]

Kiseff has made it clear that they have a vision for this game going forward and what is planned, and that they wont be easily swayed otherwise.
however people are stating "criticism" over QoL and balance, apparently making the game somehow "require less thought or effort to succeed". This game only has 2 dungeons? more mechanics and areas are being made? The game is still being developed???

Sure popular demand can be a literal game changer, but this game isn't as popular as most games out there. Its actually latched onto the correct
audience pretty well from what I've seen, alongside zero drama. So why is there people gatekeeping the game from, dare I say, Casuals? people really are acting like adding a mini map with dots is going to be a gate way to making the game into mobile slop.

The difficulty spike between the Catacombs and Grove dungeons is evidence enough that the future content IS going to be challenging and making builds pretty essential.
So basically what I'm saying is to just let Kiseff cook. Spouting complaints at QoL or balance is not productive criticism, its entitlement.

Stop gatekeeping a game that's not even finished.
(this post really doesn't target many, but there is that vocal handful lol)

[3keyz]

Strange how the person complaining about the mini-map being added, and therefore making the game easier for "casuals" and trying to stir up crap/trolling is a member of the "DEI Detected" group on Steam.

Makes one wonder.

This person is the one I'm referencing, who made the post about the mini-map on these forums.

[Vic 20]

Originally posted by 3keyz:

Strange how the person complaining about the mini-map being added, and therefore making the game easier for "casuals" and trying to stir up crap/trolling is a member of the "DEI Detected" group on Steam.

Makes one wonder.

This person is the one I'm referencing, who made the post about the mini-map on these forums.

It makes me wonder how that's relevant?

[SM5T001]

It's obvious who are you talking about, lol. So please allow me to respond.

Originally posted by C at:

Kiseff has made it clear that they have a vision for this game going forward and what is planned, and that they wont be easily swayed otherwise.
<...>
The difficulty spike between the Catacombs and Grove dungeons is evidence enough that the future content IS going to be challenging and making builds pretty essential.
So basically what I'm saying is to just let Kiseff cook.

Yes, this is true. I agree with this and it is one of the reasons why i got interested in this game.

But it's possible that you missed something:

There is a post on his X where Kiseff said that he "made the mistake in reading the steam discussion forums too much for a day, lol". It's a comment to his now deleted post, apparently he was going to listen to the people asking for a second skill hotbar but changed his mind in the last second and sticked to his original vision.

You see what are my concerns here, right? It was proven that he's not immovable and there is a possibility that too much whining on a forum can influence him.

This is the whole motivation besides me making that thread. To make it visible that hardcore audience exists too, and we fear that casuals on the forum may derail Kiseff from his original vision into making the game overall easier.

Also, i just made a post there that i think articulates it pretty well, it's probably worth it to cite it here:

Originally posted by SM5T001:

As always, one of the things trolls do to provoke people is accusing good faith arguments of being bait.

I have no problem repeating myself again for people who have problems with reading comprehension.

In my humble opinion, this game is perfect as it is now. It is a perfect vertical slice of the first quarter of a brilliant game, all the dev needs to do is to make the rest of the game — all the remaining zones and dungeons. What he doesn't need to do is listening to casuals on the forum who demand that the game will be degraded to "press X to win" level by adding countless "QoL features".

Aside from adding minimap to the overworld zones even toddler could navigate, some of the other demands i have seen on the forum are: making target lock being able to lock without aiming precisely at the enemy, making all the platforming sections in the dungeons skippable, and of course the classic "the boss is too strong, literally impossible to beat, make him easier!".

If you think there is something wrong with the game and you need it to cater to your personal special needs and be made easier so you will be able to play it, this game is not for you in the first place. Stop complaining that this game is too hard and go play something else. 97% of the players who played this game, including me, loved it and left a positive review. I encourage Kiseff to cater to us, the majority of the players who likes the game as it is and waits for it to be fully complete ASAP. Please, focus on the development of the remaining 3/4 of the game instead of wasting your time on the changes majority doesn't need or will straight up dislike!

For those with reading comprehension problems i repeat again, it's not just about minimap. Loud minority of casuals is already requesting constantly that the game overall will be made easier by removing platforming, making enemies weaker and target lock promoted to straight up auto aim hack.

I represent the players who are content with the game as it is now. There are people who like gameplay to have some challenge. Maybe we appear underrepresented online, because there is no reason for us to go to the forum in the first place and we aren't on Discord because we are more interested in playing through the good ARPG with our friends rather than socializing with random trans furries on that fan server.

Maybe we are mostly silent, but i'm absolutely sure we are the majority.

[C at]

Skimmed through and i agree with the vocal group of lesser skilled players having skill issues, but is seriously one case of Kiseff reading the discussions, even admitting it was a mistake, is setting off the alarm? In my opinion whatever the game turns out i'm going to respect the decisions he makes. If it is true if he is swayed, then its possible to be as vocal about how easy it is.

Either way, bringing a mini map, the most nothing burger of a QoL as a point really doesn't set off a good impression, especially with the nature of some posts here.
A crude mini map that doesn't outline anything might encourage more complex maze like maps tbh

[Wenda]

Originally posted by Vic 20:

Originally posted by 3keyz:

Strange how the person complaining about the mini-map being added, and therefore making the game easier for "casuals" and trying to stir up crap/trolling is a member of the "DEI Detected" group on Steam.

Makes one wonder.

This person is the one I'm referencing, who made the post about the mini-map on these forums.

It makes me wonder how that's relevant?

it means theyre nothing but a rage grifter

[C at]

Originally posted by Wenda:

Originally posted by Vic 20:

It makes me wonder how that's relevant?

it means theyre nothing but a rage grifter

They are literally yapping so much about something so minuscule lmaoooooooo

[SM5T001]

Originally posted by C at:

Skimmed through and i agree with the vocal group of lesser skilled players having skill issues, but is seriously one case of Kiseff reading the discussions, even admitting it was a mistake, is setting off the alarm? In my opinion whatever the game turns out i'm going to respect the decisions he makes. If it is true if he is swayed, then its possible to be as vocal about how easy it is.

Either way, bringing a mini map, the most nothing burger of a QoL as a point really doesn't set off a good impression, especially with the nature of some posts here.
A crude mini map that doesn't outline anything might encourage more complex maze like maps tbh

Well, yep, it was probably a slight overreaction from me. Especially since it was mentioned that this game seems to be inspired by PSO that has the same minimap, and this is the possible reason behind Kiseff adding it to the overworld, not some whining on the forum. And yes, i agree that maybe he plans to make the zones more complex in the future, we don't know.

But i still wanted to share my view and ask for an option of separate toggle for dungeon and overworld minimaps, because why not?

[SM5T001]

Originally posted by Vic 20:

Originally posted by 3keyz:

Strange how the person complaining about the mini-map being added, and therefore making the game easier for "casuals" and trying to stir up crap/trolling is a member of the "DEI Detected" group on Steam.

Makes one wonder.

This person is the one I'm referencing, who made the post about the mini-map on these forums.

It makes me wonder how that's relevant?

It's not relevant.

[ThatDarnDog]

I'm just gonna repeat it, despite any possible drama.. I don't really want a mini map for overworld. To me, what makes a game good is not only what it has, but what it doesn't have. And to me, it makes sense for dungeons, since dungeons are more about sorta getting from a to b.. while being under pressure to keep up with a team. But for overworld? Nah, I kinda think it would make the game worse. I mean, I had to learn where to go through exploring, poking around, and chatting with others.. Kinda reminded me of the days of when older MMOs were more.. well.. adventurous and social.. even if the game isn't technically a mmo.

But like I said before, we'll see what happens. I dunno about the whole 'hardcores versus casuals' thing.. To me, honestly, the game feels pretty casual as it is. I mean it's got 'challenge' sure. Maybe hard in the beginning. But once you settle into a class and get some points it doesn't really feel like a game I'd call 'hardcore'.

Also, SM5t001, Maybe dial it back a bit? You kinda have a habit of going a bit overboard with your rants, bud.

[FurryQueenYT]

Originally posted by SM5T001:

Originally posted by Vic 20:

It makes me wonder how that's relevant?

It's not relevant.

Yap harder.