I don't know, man... (Difficulty)

[OPPAI-INARI]

I really want to like this game. I like the visual style, I love the character designs, I like the overall structure and the character movement and whatnot. I've put a few hours into it now. I've played a melee character, and a mage character, but I haven't really gotten past the 6-12 catacombs because I ... basically stop having fun.

Look, I'm not bad at games, and I'm not new at them either. I've 100% cleared Sekiro, Bloodborne, Souls series, I play Quake on Nightmare for fun, I've full-cleared both Super Meat Boy and Spelunky, I can beat Contra without the 30 lives code. I have the credentials.

But this game is just too hard! I get that you're supposed to parry enemies to stunlock them but when there are three or four enemies on you at once you basically have no time to attack back because you're constantly parrying, and they're going to whittle your health down because you're going to get stuck in recovery frames and have some attacks counted as "blocks" rather than parries, which will eventually empty your stamina.

On top of this, enemies seem to have a ridiculously absurd amount of health, such that even 1v1 it takes two whole minutes to beat one measly regular enemy because you have to parry ten, twelve, fifteen times. The first time I fought a Geist I thought it was a boss encounter, and that's to say nothing of the actual boss in the catacombs, who I have no idea how you would even possibly beat without dying over and over. Is that just what you're supposed to do? Die over and over?

Tell me I'm missing something, because I'd really like to enjoy this game, but actually playing it is just a misery for me. I'm not really having fun.

[NihilFox]

I find the game wasn't that hard and only a few things was difficult. After learning enemy move sets and animations it got a lot easier.
I recommend if stuck to farm up gear and levels as well as potions which if needed can be helpful. More hogs quest is repeatable and some other good ones later on for exp and or cash.
Use restore skill with dashing around for CD if injured and redo any stats if poorly set.
Hp can be just as important as damage if you're having a hard time avoiding and parrying. I find the mystic or a tank fighter to be easy to use. Pure vit fighters are broken if geared right.

[Lesserred]

Do you have any points in Vit?

[OPPAI-INARI]

Originally posted by Lesserred:

Do you have any points in Vit?

Yeah, of course, lol. My first (melee) character was split 50/50 between strength and vitality. My mage character has a couple points in strength for stamina but is nearly a 50/50 split between mind and vitality. Both have around half their points in vitality. I just said I'm a veteran of Souls series, ya know? :P (thanks for your reply)

Originally posted by NihilFox:

I find the game wasn't that hard and only a few things was difficult. After learning enemy move sets and animations it got a lot easier.
I recommend if stuck to farm up gear and levels as well as potions which if needed can be helpful. More hogs quest is repeatable and some other good ones later on for exp and or cash.
Use restore skill with dashing around for CD if injured and redo any stats if poorly set.
Hp can be just as important as damage if you're having a hard time avoiding and parrying. I find the mystic or a tank fighter to be easy to use. Pure vit fighters are broken if geared right.

The level of difficulty that I'm seeing in the game makes this kind of casual post akin to seeing a man glitched and walking upside down in real life outside. It is absolutely bemusing, mind-boggling. I can't even imagine a world where people can say something like "oh yah, (quest I haven't even seen yet) is repeatable, just do that a few times."

Like, I dunno; it feels "broken", like there's a major fundamental technique or even technical issue that I'm not understanding. It feels so unbalanced in favor of the enemies that I struggle to understand how people are enjoying the gameplay. So I have to be missing something.

My real problem isn't health or vitality, it's just that I don't do any damage at all. Do you need to invest in Dex to do damage? I haven't put a single level or point into Dex in this game yet. Is that the answer?

[WonderSparks]

Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:

... and have some attacks counted as "blocks" rather than parries, which will eventually empty your stamina.

I'm going to single this part out because there's an important mechanic you might've missed.
If an enemy is too high of a level (like, 4+ levels higher than you), you can't parry it, even if you have the timing down.

Beyond that, it's mostly a matter of making sure your gear isn't woefully behind (weapons have a hard cap to how much damage they can do, so over-investing in strength/dexterity/mind stops being particularly useful; if the damage listed in the tooltip is yellow, you've hit the cap for that weapon) and figuring out how each enemy behaves. It can be tough at first, but eventually you'll be wiping out mobs left, right, and center.

[Lesserred]

Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:

Originally posted by Lesserred:

Do you have any points in Vit?

Yeah, of course, lol. My first (melee) character was split 50/50 between strength and vitality. My mage character has a couple points in strength for stamina but is nearly a 50/50 split between mind and vitality. Both have around half their points in vitality. I just said I'm a veteran of Souls series, ya know? :P (thanks for your reply)

Next question: Are you upgrading your gear(especially your weapon) and paying attention to enemy levels? Weapons have a damage-scaling cap, if you look at the tooltip and the damage numbers are yellow/orange, you have hit the damage cap for that weapon and need to get a better one. If enemies are more than 3 levels above yours you can't parry them and they do increased stamina damage on block.

[sweet lemonade]

Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:

Originally posted by Lesserred:

Do you have any points in Vit?

Yeah, of course, lol. My first (melee) character was split 50/50 between strength and vitality. My mage character has a couple points in strength for stamina but is nearly a 50/50 split between mind and vitality. Both have around half their points in vitality. I just said I'm a veteran of Souls series, ya know? :P (thanks for your reply)

Originally posted by NihilFox:

I find the game wasn't that hard and only a few things was difficult. After learning enemy move sets and animations it got a lot easier.
I recommend if stuck to farm up gear and levels as well as potions which if needed can be helpful. More hogs quest is repeatable and some other good ones later on for exp and or cash.
Use restore skill with dashing around for CD if injured and redo any stats if poorly set.
Hp can be just as important as damage if you're having a hard time avoiding and parrying. I find the mystic or a tank fighter to be easy to use. Pure vit fighters are broken if geared right.

The level of difficulty that I'm seeing in the game makes this kind of casual post akin to seeing a man glitched and walking upside down in real life outside. It is absolutely bemusing, mind-boggling. I can't even imagine a world where people can say something like "oh yah, (quest I haven't even seen yet) is repeatable, just do that a few times."

Like, I dunno; it feels "broken", like there's a major fundamental technique or even technical issue that I'm not understanding. It feels so unbalanced in favor of the enemies that I struggle to understand how people are enjoying the gameplay. So I have to be missing something.

My real problem isn't health or vitality, it's just that I don't do any damage at all. Do you need to invest in Dex to do damage? I haven't put a single level or point into Dex in this game yet. Is that the answer?

The fundamental technique you're not understanding is to buy a million potions, put 1/4 of your points into the stat your weapon scales with and the other 3/4 into vitality, and (for Fighter, I didn't play any other class) just spam the jump attack. Enemies take too long to kill and do far too much damage to make parrying or risking a single hit by dodging worth it and the one healing spell you get is totally outclassed by the medium potion

[Lesserred]

Originally posted by WonderSparks:

Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:

... and have some attacks counted as "blocks" rather than parries, which will eventually empty your stamina.

I'm going to single this part out because there's an important mechanic you might've missed.
If an enemy is too high of a level (like, 4+ levels higher than you), you can't parry it, even if you have the timing down.

Beyond that, it's mostly a matter of making sure your gear isn't woefully behind (weapons have a hard cap to how much damage they can do, so over-investing in strength/dexterity/mind stops being particularly useful; if the damage listed in the tooltip is yellow, you've hit the cap for that weapon) and figuring out how each enemy behaves. It can be tough at first, but eventually you'll be wiping out mobs left, right, and center.

Skills don't have a damage scaling cap, so stat investment beyond your weapon cap isn't pointless. In fact even late game weapons have a relatively low power cap, making it mostly for skill scaling after that point.

[OPPAI-INARI]

Originally posted by WonderSparks:

I'm going to single this part out because there's an important mechanic you might've missed.
If an enemy is too high of a level (like, 4+ levels higher than you), you can't parry it, even if you have the timing down.

Huh, that's really helpful actually. I wish the game explained that, lol.

Originally posted by WonderSparks:

Beyond that, it's mostly a matter of making sure your gear isn't woefully behind (weapons have a hard cap to how much damage they can do, so over-investing in strength/dexterity/mind stops being particularly useful; if the damage listed in the tooltip is yellow, you've hit the cap for that weapon) and figuring out how each enemy behaves. It can be tough at first, but eventually you'll be wiping out mobs left, right, and center.

Originally posted by Lesserred:

Next question: Are you upgrading your gear(especially your weapon) and paying attention to enemy levels? Weapons have a damage-scaling cap, if you look at the tooltip and the damage numbers are yellow/orange, you have hit the damage cap for that weapon and need to get a better one. If enemies are more than 3 levels above yours you can't parry them and they do increased stamina damage on block.

Also helpful to know! Although yeah, I have been upgrading my gear, as much as I can anyway from whatever drops. On my first girl I struggled because I never did get a drop for anything better than the wooden hammer, which was part of the reason I decided to start over with a mage, who got a drop for a Marrow Bauble that was a decent upgrade over her starting weapon. It still feels like I do no damage at all though, even fighting same-level enemies (i.e. level 7 vs. level 7 Geist was the specific "ten-to-fifteen parries" situation I was talking about earlier.)

[Lesserred]

Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:

Also helpful to know! Although yeah, I have been upgrading my gear, as much as I can anyway from whatever drops. On my first girl I struggled because I never did get a drop for anything better than the wooden hammer, which was part of the reason I decided to start over with a mage, who got a drop for a Marrow Bauble that was a decent upgrade over her starting weapon. It still feels like I do no damage at all though, even fighting same-level enemies (i.e. level 7 vs. level 7 Geist was the specific "ten-to-fifteen parries" situation I was talking about earlier.)

Wait you're going in to the 6-12 catacombs at level 7? That's gonna be another issue. The dungeon levels follow classic MMORPG rules, minimum level to enter is NOT minimum level to complete. If you wanna solo that i'd recommend waiting until level 10 or 11 when you actually have your class.

[Intra]

If you're low level, multi-hit weapons or fast hitting weapons do less damage because of enemies higher defense. That's why you'll find the 2 handers doing more damage early on until you get a sufficiently stronger weapon. The first guaranteed weapon upgrade you can get is level 7 Mekspear from the shop quest, and it's -decent-, then you can upgrade to Rageblade at 10 from a drop > then upgrade to Vileblade by shop quest and that will carry you easily to 15. Then there's Ragespear at 17. This is a fairly good pipeline for DPS.

So my advice for most starting characters, regardless of class, is to start with Wood Hammer and just upgrade for more weapon damage until you get the better weapons.

[OPPAI-INARI]

Originally posted by Lesserred:

Wait you're going in to the 6-12 catacombs at level 7? That's gonna be another issue. The dungeon levels follow classic MMORPG rules, minimum level to enter is NOT minimum level to complete. If you wanna solo that i'd recommend waiting until level 10 or 11 when you actually have your class.

Lol? Angela gives you the quest to go in there at level 6. The game certainly doesn't have anything to indicate that you should wait until level 10 to enter the "level 6 to 12" dungeon.

Originally posted by Intra:

If you're low level, multi-hit weapons or fast hitting weapons do less damage because of enemies higher defense. That's why you'll find the 2 handers doing more damage early on until you get a sufficiently stronger weapon. The first guaranteed weapon upgrade you can get is level 7 Mekspear from the shop quest, and it's -decent-, then you can upgrade to Rageblade > Vileblade and that will carry you easily to 15. Then there's Ragespear at 17. This is a fairly good pipeline for DPS.

That doesn't sound particularly great if I want to use a heavy weapon, lol... 😅 (or for my mage!)

[Intra]

Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:

That doesn't sound particularly great if I want to use a heavy weapon, lol... 😅 (or for my mage!)

You can always pay to respec stats when you finally get a decent caster weapon... Or when you get a weapon you want to keep and use Mind Gem to make it scale with Mind (like Quake Pummeler or Frostgeist Blade).

If you've got enough Mind Gems you could always use Mind Gems on your way leveling.

[Lesserred]

Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:

Originally posted by Lesserred:

Wait you're going in to the 6-12 catacombs at level 7? That's gonna be another issue. The dungeon levels follow classic MMORPG rules, minimum level to enter is NOT minimum level to complete. If you wanna solo that i'd recommend waiting until level 10 or 11 when you actually have your class.

Lol? Angela gives you the quest to go in there at level 6. The game certainly doesn't have anything to indicate that you should wait until level 10 to enter the "level 6 to 12" dungeon.

Yeah, the level range is for the enemies inside. (6 is the lowest level enemy you'll fight, 12 is the highest, excluding the boss who is 13 if I remember right). And while I'm not gonna say it's INTUITIVE, the quest being available the second you can get in is par for the course on the era of game that's being paid homage here.

[Intra]

I've done multiple alts at level 6 in the 6-12 Catacombs, and without potions or ranged it's quite difficult. Final boss without parry is extremely hard.

It basically REQUIRES jump attack or some form of movement tech to escape the melee attacks.

[OPPAI-INARI]

Originally posted by Lesserred:

Yeah, the level range is for the enemies inside. (6 is the lowest level enemy you'll fight, 12 is the highest, excluding the boss who is 13 if I remember right). And while I'm not gonna say it's INTUITIVE, the quest being available the second you can get in is par for the course on the era of game that's being paid homage here.

Nah, that's not accurate at all. I'm old; I was there for Meridian 59, I was there for Ultima Online, I was there for EverQuest, I was there for PSO, I was there for FF 11, and none of them were like that.