Community Discussion: Weapon Upgrade System

[Ery]

In its current state, true weapon transmogging (like in WoW or FFXIV) is not possible. Many weapons have unique abilities, especially wands and bells, which would cause a lot of problems aesthetically, let alone programmatically. On the FAQ (which admittedly was written before the game's massive post-launch success) it says that weapon transmogging isn't going to be implemented.

Weapon Upgrading solves this issue, but how to implement it is another question entirely.

Should it be a Post Game feature, or a feature that you can access as you progress and level up?

Having it be a Post Game feature would be both a boon and a burden, developmentally speaking. On one hand, it would be a fun reward for players that got through the game, providing hours of extra content to grind for certain materials. However, if it is post-game content, it requires the game to actually be finished. Which won't be for another year or two, and that means another year or two of repeated posts/reports of this issue. This isn't the first thread on this topic, and it certainly won't be the last.

Having it be a feature that anyone can access as they level up is a much more immediate solution, but would require a lot of work and effort to be put into place in the immediacy for it to work, which will delay development time further for a system that is not currently crucial for the game's development. Kiseff has stated, multiple times, that their primary focus right now (as of 12/4/2024) is getting the game to a working, playable, and stable state before moving on to create new content for the game.

Additions like item stacking when shift-clicking in inventories and inventory sorting seem to use systems that were already in the game. Thus, they were QOL changes not necessary for the stability or playability of the game, but due to their short turnout time for development, were able to be deployed.

If Weapon Upgrading was added to the game, how would it be added?

One user in another thread suggested a system in which you need /copies/ of certain weapons to upgrade them. I, among others, have suggested using materials to upgrade weapons. It would give monster materials another use, and most weapons already have specific monster upgrade materials in place.

Why is Weapon Upgrading a necessary addition to the game?

In short: It isn't.

It is a purely QOL change. However, it would be a change that solves multiple issues at the same time: Replayability, player autonomy, and customization. All three of those things are, in essence, the main reason why many players (myself included) enjoy Atlyss as much as we do. From the addictive gameplay loop to the ability to edit, change, and customize characters as you see fit, player autonomy is built-in to the foundation of the game. Many aspects of this game follow the spirit of that philosophy, from the movement, to the many abilities one is able to use, and even from the ability to change the weapon types, customization is a core tenant to what Atlyss is trying to achieve.

Why make another post about this when there are already multiple that exist?

My goal for this post is to, for those that are interested, brainstorm with the community to create a suggestion that is both concise and well thought out. I think that if people feel passionately enough about this topic, then having a thread whose main purpose is to come up with suggestions for a system while also keeping it to the point might help. Also, this post is long as hell and I didn't want to spam the other ones.

If you read this, thanks for reading, I'd like to know your thoughts or what you think!

Edit: Fixed some spelling and grammar mistakes.

[Lesserred]

I wish people would stop using the "before the game's massive post-launch success" statement to justify their ideas(for one, this is early access, not full launch). Just because someone made money doesn't mean they have to change their plans. If Kiseff changes their mind, so be it, but please stop using the success of the game to try to act like a shareholder.

[Ery]

Originally posted by Lesserred:

I wish people would stop using the "before the game's massive post-launch success" statement to justify their ideas(for one, this is early access, not full launch). Just because someone made money doesn't mean they have to change their plans. If Kiseff changes their mind, so be it, but please stop using the success of the game to try to act like a shareholder.

Can I ask what about me saying "before the game's massive post-launch success" upset you, or made it seem like I felt like I was a shareholder? I'm just an enjoyer of the game that wanted to share my ideas. I specifically wrote Community Discussion and not Developer Feedback; That was a conscious choice. This wasn't a letter written to the developer to enact change, but rather a discussion to the community to talk about what kind of change they would like to see.

I didn't mean to offend with my post, nor do I mean to offend here. I also specifically said in my post that is isn't a necessary change.

If you wanted to know, another reason why I made this post was because I thought it could be a good resource for modders in the future (myself or others) in case they want to implement it in themselves. Your post came across to me as aggressive. If you're going to give feedback on the way that I'm phrasing my feedback, then please also give feedback on the topic at hand.

If you decide that it's unreasonable for me to ask something like that of you, then please reconsider how your feedback might have come off to me, from my point of view as well. Either way, thank you for your reply.

[Valthejean]

I'm not overly against the idea of weapon upgrading, but it does sort of come at a cost. The game has a lot of classic wow/diablo style inspiration, and one of the key features of those games are super cool legendary items [Did Somebody Say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?]
With a weapon upgrade system, having cool/rare legendaries is a bit diminished, because why hunt for a legendary if colossal tone can be upgraded to max level?
Mind, not saying I'm against the idea, just I could understand why the dev might be hesitant to implement it.

[Akwaba]

too many people do not realise that what they are asking for requires many ppl working on the game, and requires a complete overhaul of the transmogging system. now im not really surprised that ppl have all these grand ideas and know nothing of game design as a whole...
i try to educate ppl on this since i am a graphic designer/Character modeler, most of these ideas are never gonna happen ven if Kisseif hires multiple people alot of these ideas will never happen as they are more focused on progressing content, we will most likely get more "fun" stuff added and by fun i mean mogging and cosmetic stuff... but thats it. these crazy ideas will never happen.

imo i wish for a hug/high five emote which isn't that hard to do as alot of games do this now. you root the players on a level horizontal axis then have them locked into an animation you wanted. obviously if you move the emote should break, is a very simple addition that i know for a fact wont get added for a while as there are more pressing matters to get done first.

[Vrasimene]

Originally posted by Ery:

If Weapon Upgrading was added to the game, how would it be added?

One user in another thread suggested a system in which you need /copies/ of certain weapons to upgrade them. I, among others, have suggested using materials to upgrade weapons. It would give monster materials another use, and most weapons already have specific monster upgrade materials in place.

Why not both?

If a weapon upgrade system were to be implemented, I genuinely believe the most sane approach would be the sacrificial copy one. It's simple: upgrade weapon A by sacrificing weapon B, then weapon A inherits the stat bonuses and level requirement of weapon B, nothing more. Plus, if Kiseff ever had to go back to buff or nerf weapon B, those changes would also apply to weapon A by proxy. Kiseff wouldn't have to go through the trouble of creating level-up tables for every single weapon current or future.

Monster materials could be incorporated as a cost dependent on the currently existing enchantment costs of both weapons. So for an example, upgrading a Coldgeist Frostcaller to be as powerful as a Colossus Tone would add 4 soul pearls (1 + 3) and 6675 crowns (2625 + 4050) to the upgrade cost.

[Lesserred]

Originally posted by Ery:

Originally posted by Lesserred:

I wish people would stop using the "before the game's massive post-launch success" statement to justify their ideas(for one, this is early access, not full launch). Just because someone made money doesn't mean they have to change their plans. If Kiseff changes their mind, so be it, but please stop using the success of the game to try to act like a shareholder.

Can I ask what about me saying "before the game's massive post-launch success" upset you, or made it seem like I felt like I was a shareholder?

Since you asked: It's specifically your wording. It was used as a qualifier. "On the FAQ (which admittedly was written before the game's massive post-launch success) it says that weapon transmogging isn't going to be implemented."

It reads as if you think the fact it sold well has bearing on this design choice.(I know that's not your intention. I'm neither upset with you or calling you specifically out on this which is why I generalized my statement.) You also approach this entire prospective conversation as if there is an issue to be solved, rather than a preference to be met with the way you wrote everything up. These two things combined are why I made the "shareholder" comparison. I also think the other thread on the subject has the same issue, albeit worse.

[Paige 404]

Personally, I'm hoping for this as something we can do at any time throughout the game. HOWEVER, I also think it should be grindy and harder to do than just replacing the weapon with a higher level one.

This should be something you only do for a weapon you absolutely adore, and never do just because a better weapon hasn't dropped yet.

[BrokenDoop]

You should just be able to use higher level weapons to raise lower ones to its level, and have weapons scale off of level obviously.
Exact same progression, but you get to use what you want.
It really is that simple.

Would even prefer if it had more of a cost, like needing multiple higher level weapons, or using the enchantment material if it has one, or a money cost etc.
Would make it feel more impactful when you actually get to do it.