Supports need DRASTIC changes

[Westbrook]

Wanna know another reason people spam hawkeye and hela? It's not just because they are super strong, it's because they are one of the few people that can actually break through the healing in this game.

There is SO much sustain it's actually ridiculous. Adam's E is broken as all hell, Mantis can just apply a passive self heal to basically her whole team with a constant uptime while also having a stun ability that has a massive AoE for some reason AND some of the best damage... in the game in general.

And if those two are being used together, you have to kill them TWICE for them to actually stay dead because adam has a passive to just self revive and mantis gets that from the team up.

Jeff's ult is ridiculous, his primary healing is 140 hp/s?????????, AND he has an aoe burst healing option available that not only gives a speed boost on top of the burst healing but also provides a 15% increase to incoming healing as well.

C&D has a large bubble to heal and another ability that also boosts healing received, whilst also having an invul ability, and MORE AoE healing with her primary fire.

Luna has basically a 12 second long zen ult, 120 hp/s with her primary fire, yet again another ability that not only boosts healing by 35% from her E but also lets you just... passively heal them by healing someone else. And she gets a stun to top it off.

Rocket and loki are about the only 2 that don't look like they have just idiotic numbers.

But all in all... it's ridiculous. Once you get to a point where you are playing against competent players, meaning competent supports you just flat out can't kill anything. It ALL gets out healed, and with minimal effort too. None of them are difficult to play. At best you got luna who needs to aim her healing, but even then... it's not rocket science.

[Westbrook]

Originally posted by Renée Renard:

Ah yes says the person who can't even 1v1 a support as a dps, lel

No one said anything about a 1v1. I hope you know that this game isn't a 1v1 game.

Idiotic response. Next.

[Sylphie Fioré]

Originally posted by Westbrook:

Originally posted by Renée Renard:

Ah yes says the person who can't even 1v1 a support as a dps, lel

No one said anything about a 1v1. I hope you know that this game isn't a 1v1 game.

Idiotic response. Next.

Oh sorry I thought you were competent at the game like you attempted to make people believe, my bad. A thousand apologies, I mistook you for someone who could play the game.

[Westbrook]

Originally posted by Renée Renard:

Originally posted by Westbrook:

No one said anything about a 1v1. I hope you know that this game isn't a 1v1 game.

Idiotic response. Next.

Oh sorry I thought you were competent at the game like you attempted to make people believe, my bad. A thousand apologies, I mistook you for someone who could play the game.

You're talking about 1v1's you idiot, in a team based game. You are the incompetent human here.

[Goonecologist]

I don't think healing is THAT broken. Adam can revive himself but he also has zero movement ability and a tank/flank can rush him down and kill him. Iron Fist deletes Adam but Iron Fist is busted in general. Jeff's ult is a problem, at least. But I'd rather we don't inflate healing to be OW levels of ridiculous. This game doesn't have any egregious issues like Bap lamp or Kiri suzu. Sure, Cloak's invis can technically be considered similar to Kiri suzu but he also doesn't heal with it and doesn't cleanse with it, Cloak & Dagger are also hard to use, you can't just pick them and immediately do good.

The only support who feels a bit underpowered is Rocket. His healing is on the lower side, likely due to his revive ability and his DPS isn't great. There's not much reason to pick him over the other excellent support choices.

[Big Daddy-Chan]

Originally posted by Westbrook:

Wanna know another reason people spam hawkeye and hela? It's not just because they are super strong, it's because they are one of the few people that can actually break through the healing in this game.

There is SO much sustain it's actually ridiculous. Adam's E is broken as all hell, Mantis can just apply a passive self heal to basically her whole team with a constant uptime while also having a stun ability that has a massive AoE for some reason AND some of the best damage... in the game in general.

And if those two are being used together, you have to kill them TWICE for them to actually stay dead because adam has a passive to just self revive and mantis gets that from the team up.

Jeff's ult is ridiculous, his primary healing is 140 hp/s?????????, AND he has an aoe burst healing option available that not only gives a speed boost on top of the burst healing but also provides a 15% increase to incoming healing as well.

C&D has a large bubble to heal and another ability that also boosts healing received, whilst also having an invul ability, and MORE AoE healing with her primary fire.

Luna has basically a 12 second long zen ult, 120 hp/s with her primary fire, yet again another ability that not only boosts healing by 35% from her E but also lets you just... passively heal them by healing someone else. And she gets a stun to top it off.

Rocket and loki are about the only 2 that don't look like they have just idiotic numbers.

But all in all... it's ridiculous. Once you get to a point where you are playing against competent players, meaning competent supports you just flat out can't kill anything. It ALL gets out healed, and with minimal effort too. None of them are difficult to play. At best you got luna who needs to aim her healing, but even then... it's not rocket science.

Nah, it's a filter to make up for the dps crayon eaters that refuse to play anything else. Need them to help vanguards carry the game cause the dps sure won't lol

[Captain Blue]

What's the point of healing if you can just break through the healing?

[Westbrook]

Originally posted by Captain Blue:

What's the point of healing if you can just break through the healing?

That's not the point. When you get to a point where healing and sustain is so broken that nothing ever really dies and the game turns into "shoot at each other til we build ults" you have a problem.

MR fans don't like overwatch being brought up but it needs to be because these are the same problems that overwatch went through. They had ridiculous amounts of healing and sustain that the game turned into who has the ults first. It isn't a good thing.

Especially when it's not like the supports have the trade off of being easier to kill, along with their broken healing. Because they aren't, they have their own mobility, self sustain, and CC abilities. And some of them even have damage on par with DPS.

[Tiziel]

Originally posted by Westbrook:

Originally posted by Captain Blue:

What's the point of healing if you can just break through the healing?

That's not the point. When you get to a point where healing and sustain is so broken that nothing ever really dies and the game turns into "shoot at each other til we build ults" you have a problem.

MR fans don't like overwatch being brought up but it needs to be because these are the same problems that overwatch went through. They had ridiculous amounts of healing and sustain that the game turned into who has the ults first. It isn't a good thing.

Especially when it's not like the supports have the trade off of being easier to kill, along with their broken healing. Because they aren't, they have their own mobility, self sustain, and CC abilities. And some of them even have damage on par with DPS.

Which rank are you?

[Make clash permanent]

Originally posted by Alonemax:

Well...Just target supports first then.

On everything that is holy I hate the phrase "just focus the X".

If you think like this it means you're not capable of thinking beyond step one and shouldn't be allowed to vote or drive.

[Sylphie Fioré]

Originally posted by Westbrook:

Originally posted by Renée Renard:

Oh sorry I thought you were competent at the game like you attempted to make people believe, my bad. A thousand apologies, I mistook you for someone who could play the game.

You're talking about 1v1's you idiot, in a team based game. You are the incompetent human here.

Well thats because despite it being 6 vs 6 there will be times where one little person will be against another little person, now this is the scary part so be brave now, they don't make love, they fight to the death. This might be a massive revelation to you since you know little about the game but now you know! So exciting. Now go home to your momma and tell her you learned something new today.

[Good Person]

But you can burst people through mantis/luna ult. Peni can do it. Iron man can do it with ult. Coordinated damage on one person can do it. Hawkeye can do it. Jeff can eat people inside of lunas ult and she cant even so anything about it. Luna can't even contest the point by herself 1v5 with ult , as if everyone fires her down she will die.

Adam ult? Just counter it with one of your ults. Its called ult trading. The answer to everything suprisingly is not just mindlessly fire at the first thing that moves.

The only two things I agree with is mantis sleep is incredibly forgiving , esp compared to the utility the other strategist possess and Jeff ult doesn't need an explanation.

[Gastricskydiver]

Originally posted by Westbrook:

Originally posted by Zhaeph:

Yes you can, you just need to aim HS ..... or focus fire one and not multiple....or even better FOCUS THE SUPPORTS

Hitting headshots consistently enough to break through it, is flat out harder than what the supports have to do.

Melee characters can't headshot.

Needing coordination / focus fire to be able to break through basic healing isn't a good thing.

"Focus the supports" is a rebuttal from someone who doesn't play the game they are speaking on because shocker! supports also benefit from their healing??? Plus they have self sustain, mobility, and CC to live.

I mean, the main healers I've played so far have been Luna Snow and Cloak and Dagger. Neither of which can really keep themselves alive. C&D has the regen dome, but the healing absolutely cannot out heal dps. Luna has no self-healing, I generally just have to self peel with the alternate fire then win the duel while they're frozen, otherwise I will die unless my team peels. And these aren't situations with multiple people focusing me, it's one Psylocke or Iron Fist. I would say I win the duels about 60/40, but that's just because I'm pretty accurate as Luna and usually hit my freeze.

Honestly, my easiest experience has been the couple games where I actually got to play dps since I didn't have to rely on a bunch of scrubs to do damage. First game as dps, they barely managed to reach the point to unlock the payload. Sorry dps can't be easier for you, but I don't know how they can make it easier. A good Hawkeye can seemingly one shot most healers from range.

[Captain Blue]

Originally posted by Westbrook:

Originally posted by Captain Blue:

What's the point of healing if you can just break through the healing?

That's not the point. When you get to a point where healing and sustain is so broken that nothing ever really dies and the game turns into "shoot at each other til we build ults" you have a problem.

MR fans don't like overwatch being brought up but it needs to be because these are the same problems that overwatch went through. They had ridiculous amounts of healing and sustain that the game turned into who has the ults first. It isn't a good thing.

Especially when it's not like the supports have the trade off of being easier to kill, along with their broken healing. Because they aren't, they have their own mobility, self sustain, and CC abilities. And some of them even have damage on par with DPS.

But surely the point of dive characters / assassins like Psylocke and Ironfist is to kill the healer right? Instead of nerfing healers maybe you need to coordinate with your team and ask damage to switch to an assassin to get their healers..

[Westbrook]

Originally posted by Tiziel:

Originally posted by Westbrook:

That's not the point. When you get to a point where healing and sustain is so broken that nothing ever really dies and the game turns into "shoot at each other til we build ults" you have a problem.

MR fans don't like overwatch being brought up but it needs to be because these are the same problems that overwatch went through. They had ridiculous amounts of healing and sustain that the game turned into who has the ults first. It isn't a good thing.

Especially when it's not like the supports have the trade off of being easier to kill, along with their broken healing. Because they aren't, they have their own mobility, self sustain, and CC abilities. And some of them even have damage on par with DPS.

Which rank are you?

Diamond 2 currently.

Originally posted by Captain Blue:

Originally posted by Westbrook:

That's not the point. When you get to a point where healing and sustain is so broken that nothing ever really dies and the game turns into "shoot at each other til we build ults" you have a problem.

MR fans don't like overwatch being brought up but it needs to be because these are the same problems that overwatch went through. They had ridiculous amounts of healing and sustain that the game turned into who has the ults first. It isn't a good thing.

Especially when it's not like the supports have the trade off of being easier to kill, along with their broken healing. Because they aren't, they have their own mobility, self sustain, and CC abilities. And some of them even have damage on par with DPS.

But surely the point of dive characters / assassins like Psylocke and Ironfist is to kill the healer right? Instead of nerfing healers maybe you need to coordinate with your team and ask damage to switch to an assassin to get their healers..

This has the same problem as saying "just go dive" in overwatch.

Playing dive and coordinating dives is flat out objectively 10x harder to do than just peeling for your backline and keeping yourself alive. There's a reason there are no meta dive characters in MR right now. At best you have psylocke but that's it. No dive tanks, one dive dps, and no real dive supports.

[Manslayer]

Throwing this out there. Turns out this game isn't even as closed to balanced as some people made it seem.