Stop asking for Role Queue; ask for this instead

[Roland]

We don't need Role Queue.
Role Queue breaks the fundamental ability for teams to adapt that the game currently has.

What we need is qualifying matches or placement matches.
A series of 5-10 matches at the start of each Ranked season that decides where you start in Ranked that season based on how you performed in those matches.

This would (mostly) separate the low skill players and trolls from the higher skilled ones and Competitive wouldn't feel so brutal for those of us that understand the basic fundamentals.

This is how Paladins did it for over 10 years, and we never had issues with team composition in anything but the lowest of Ranked tiers.

Reminder:
The devs have already said they will not be adding Role Queue, so as it stands this is your only hope for not getting 4 DPS on your team in Ranked. (assuming you place average or above in said qualifiers)

[Ice-Nine]

Okay first off, Paladins absolutely did have issues with team composition and the matchmaking wasn't really any better than Marvel Rivals is now.

Secondly, this is a dumb idea, 5-10 matches isn't even close to enough to determine a good starting point. You may as well just place people randomly for all the accuracy that would have.

The ONLY reason why this kinda-sorta works for placement in other games is because those games have multiple seasons worth of MMR data on a majority of the players. This game does not.

Lastly, this doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with the reasons people are asking for role queue.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Okay first off, Paladins absolutely did have issues with team composition

Once you got to like Silver 3, no, no it did not.
Maybe 1 in like 80 matches you might have some jackass pick whatever, but once you got to Platinum and definitely in Diamond, you never saw that ♥♥♥♥ at all. It was primarily chat going "I can play X,Y, or Z character guys, who would you like me to bring?"

How many hours do you have in Paladins?
(I have over 2,200 and used to be Diamond 3, aka in the top 13% of players. I know for a fact high level play didn't have this comp issue)

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Secondly, this is a dumb idea, 5-10 matches isn't even close to enough to determine a good starting point. You may as well just place people randomly for all the accuracy that would have.

It's not even the first game to do it, and this is how Ranked works in a lot of games.

For Paladins it's 5 matches, for most others it's 10.

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

The ONLY reason why this kinda-sorta works for placement in other games is because those games have multiple seasons worth of MMR data on a majority of the players. This game does not.

How tf do you think those games handle new players?? Or for that matter, how do you think those games handled it when they launched?
It has no previous MMR data to pull from for them and can only go off of their performance. Just like this game should do. (and nevermind that this game has Beta data and Season 0, since none of these changes could happen until at least Season 1 anyway)

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Lastly, this doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with the reasons people are asking for role queue.

People are asking for role queue because they are complaining about imbalanced teams and primarily having too many DPS. Too many DPS happens because low skill players don't' understand the importance of balancing the team comp. This separates those low skill players form those of us that do not have this issue.

It solves the problem without forcing roles, increasing queue times, or removing the flexibility the game currently has.

[Ice-Nine]

Originally posted by Roland:

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Okay first off, Paladins absolutely did have issues with team composition

Once you got to like Silver 3, no, no it did not.
Maybe 1 in like 80 matches you might have some jackass pick whatever, but once you got to Platinum and definitely in Diamond, you never saw that ♥♥♥♥ at all. It was primarily chat going "I can play X,Y, or Z character guys, who would you like me to bring?"

How many hours do you have in Paladins?
(I have over 2,200 and used to be Diamond 3, aka in the top 13% of players. I know for a fact high level play didn't have this comp issue)

Cool, so you literally admit that Paladins had this problem as well.

Let me know when you get to Diamond or whatever equivalent in Marvel Rivals. I guarantee you won't be having this problem.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Originally posted by Roland:

Once you got to like Silver 3, no, no it did not.
Maybe 1 in like 80 matches you might have some jackass pick whatever, but once you got to Platinum and definitely in Diamond, you never saw that ♥♥♥♥ at all. It was primarily chat going "I can play X,Y, or Z character guys, who would you like me to bring?"

How many hours do you have in Paladins?
(I have over 2,200 and used to be Diamond 3, aka in the top 13% of players. I know for a fact high level play didn't have this comp issue)

Cool, so you literally admit that Paladins had this problem as well.

Let me know when you get to Diamond or whatever equivalent in Marvel Rivals. I guarantee you won't be having this problem.

It's obvious you didn't play much because as I said this stopped being an issue by Silver 3, and if you did even halfway decent in your Qualifiers it was easy to get placed in Gold or even Plat.

Hell for the most part it wasn't an issue by the time you got to Bronze 1, because most weren't climbing out of Bronze if someone didn't pick needed roles, since in that game the only thing you can get away with not having sometimes was a Flank.

And mind you Gold was the middle point, meaning it was the Average Player. (I hope I don't have to explain Normal Distribution) meaning only below average players were still picking terrible comps.

So if this game adopted a similar system with similar results, only the below average players would still be picking 4 DPS and the majority of us would not have to worry about it.

[blixenano]

this would be a perfect way to sift out any bots/griefers right from the start, and it reminds me of rocket league's ranked system which i like a lot.
although, 10 matches feels a little too low since ppl can have random matches where they just don't play as good as usual, but i imagine the sorting will get more accurate over time.

i still think they should add role queue as a different option, just like they made build and no build separated in fortnite. i don't exactly want to play a ranked match against full dps/full healer teams cause that seems a little wack, so it'd be neat if i could play the game with set roles like 1 tank/1 dps/1 support then the other 3 can choose whatever, or the ol' reliable 2 tanks/2 dps/2 supports.

[Ice-Nine]

Originally posted by Roland:

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

Cool, so you literally admit that Paladins had this problem as well.

Let me know when you get to Diamond or whatever equivalent in Marvel Rivals. I guarantee you won't be having this problem.

It's obvious you didn't play much because as I said this stopped being an issue by Silver 3, and if you did even halfway decent in your Qualifiers it was easy to get placed in Gold or even Plat.

Hell for the most part it wasn't an issue by the time you got to Bronze 1, because most weren't climbing out of Bronze if someone didn't pick needed roles, since in that game the only thing you can get away with not having sometimes was a Flank.

And mind you Gold was the middle point, meaning it was the Average Player. (I hope I don't have to explain Normal Distribution) meaning only below average players were still picking terrible comps.

So if this game adopted a similar system with similar results, only the below average players would still be picking 4 DPS and the majority of us would not have to worry about it.

It's funny because you have no actual argument based on merit or fact; you only argue by insisting that anyone who disagrees with you must "not play much."

[Coldflame]

it isn't a skill issue, the vast majority of players are going to perform worse on their non-preferred role so forcing flex-or-lose makes match outcomes a diceroll

[Roland]

Originally posted by blixenano:

this would be a perfect way to sift out any bots/griefers right from the start, and it reminds me of rocket league's ranked system which i like a lot.
although, 10 matches feels a little too low since ppl can have random matches where they just don't play as good as usual, but i imagine the sorting will get more accurate over time.

Yes!

Also it's not low, hear me out:

If you should be placed higher and are not you get the joys of carrying low teams while you climb up, because the majority at the lower levels are going to be lower skilled than you. Ask me about times I'd wreck entire teams in Paladins with my Resonance Ying, or Vora, or Lex, or Ash, or etc (I played a lot of Champs and wouldn't touch ranked with one until I could consistently win bot matches without dying)

That's the beauty of this, if you get unlucky in your qualifiers, you're facing opponents weaker than you and can relax or sweat as much as needed/desired and it gives you some awesome dopamine hits.

Separate queue means splitting the playerbase and longer wait times. And the devs have already said they will not be adding it, so everyone asking for it is just wasting their breath when they can ask for this system and get the results they truly want.

[YEA MON!]

skill issue I had no problem climbing using mantis and hawkeye

[Kitt 🌟 Stargazer]

These just meed prompts in game to promote making friends with people you enjoy playing with. The importance of partying up with those people will generally fix just about all issues with queuing up for matches that solo queuing hits us with.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Coldflame:

it isn't a skill issue, the vast majority of players are going to perform worse on their non-preferred role so forcing flex-or-lose makes match outcomes a diceroll

If you are only good at one role, that is a skill issue.

If you only prefer one role, in a game where flexing roles is not only encouraged, but important to shifting the tides of battle, you should not be in Competitive and should stay in Quick Play.

The "rule" in Paladins was that you should not be in Ranked until you can play at least 2 of each role but generally we encouraged 4 of each role because of the pick/ban system that could see your only 2 being already picked or banned.

Originally posted by Ice-Nine:

It's funny because you have no actual argument based on merit or fact; you only argue by insisting that anyone who disagrees with you must "not play much."

I asked you how many hours you had, since you have your profile hidden and I can't just check. You are welcome to show how many hours you've played and counter my argument.

As you can see on Steam alone, not even counting my hundreds of hours on Switch, I have thousands of hours in the game. I lived and breathed the game; I know precisely how effective this system is and how it plays out.

And since the devs have already said they do not want to add role queue, this is the best alternative.

[Roland]

Originally posted by YEA MON!:

skill issue I had no problem climbing using mantis and hawkeye

LMAO Hawkeye is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ busted though.
He's the only character that can 1 shot. He does more damage than Widow with a headshot.

I watched him 1 shot a Iron Fist earlier who had 300hp because he had just meditated for the bonus hp; even Black Widow can't do that.

[YEA MON!]

Originally posted by Kitt 🌟 Stargazer:

These just meed prompts in game to promote making friends with people you enjoy playing with. The importance of partying up with those people will generally fix just about all issues with queuing up for matches that solo queuing hits us with.

this is a deflecting thread even with a good team he would still plateau where ever he is now him blaming team mates and matching making is just a coping mechanism

[Roland]

Originally posted by Kitt 🌟 Stargazer:

These just meed prompts in game to promote making friends with people you enjoy playing with. The importance of partying up with those people will generally fix just about all issues with queuing up for matches that solo queuing hits us with.

While I kinda agree, the anti social and introverted types would rage.
What would be better but in that same vein would be some kind of detailed tutorial on the importance of roles and why things like only having 1 healer is usually a bad idea; or how important it is to switch to what is needed when it is needed.

Originally posted by YEA MON!:

Originally posted by Kitt 🌟 Stargazer:

These just meed prompts in game to promote making friends with people you enjoy playing with. The importance of partying up with those people will generally fix just about all issues with queuing up for matches that solo queuing hits us with.

this is a deflecting thread even with a good team he would still plateau where ever he is now him blaming team mates and matching making is just a coping mechanism

What are you even talking about?
I'm not blaming anyone for anything.

This thread is addressing the people asking for role queue to solve the "4+ dps" problem.
No one has blamed anyone for anything, nor is anyone deflecting anything; wtf??

I'm saying people need to stop asking for something the devs already said they wouldn't add and ask for this which would give them the result they want. How tf is that blaming teammates??

[Roland]

Added a little reminder to the first post about the devs having already said there will be no role queue, because the people asking for it really are 'wasting their breath'