Healer Ults Need To Be Changed

[Polarcrest]

Cloak and Dagger, Invisible Woman, Luna Snow, Mantis and even Loki all have or can have ultimates that make them and their team more or less invincible. From what I remember, Overwatch had one and it was a powerful ability.

I have faced teams that were Luna, Mantis and Loki at the same time. That is three ults that make the enemy team invincible. That is just too much. It's much too frequent that I'll pop my ult and their ult just negates mine. It's too much. Especially when you have an Adam Warlock and Rocket as your healer and can't match that.

As Punisher, I'll pop my ult and lay into someone during their ult and I can't kill them. That is not okay. Increased healing sure...but that is not "increased healing" it's invulnerability.

I'd like to see all healers ults changed in a way that makes it good but not godly. Honestly, it's actually quite unimaginative as well. All the healers do the same thing. How about you add some unique ults that make it more fun.

[Tsorig]

Originally posted by Ironside:

and dps ults that mass destroy teams is ok?

I have absolutely np with those so called mass destruction ults. They can be avoided quite easily if you are having some game awarness.

[andynnos]

Originally posted by Tsorig:

Originally posted by andynnos:

I don't care about your opinion or what you think, I care about facts. Opinions are opinions and your cognitive bias is your cognitive bias. Your excuses can be safely applied to all heroes and roles.

Yes the statics and win rates are facts, behind the facts are reasons, behind reason are theory and opinions.

Why would Luna and C&D being in top 5 bans ever, if they are so bad like you make it sounds like they are. Why would most of community ask supports getting nerf if they are just so bad like you are telling as a "fact", right?

First I need to apologize to you. Rereading what I wrote sounds harsh. It wasn't my intention. English is a language I learned by myself. In my culture people are quite direct.

On topic I never said the heroes are bad. My intention was to say that the heroes aren't as op as people make them to be. The community don't want nerfs to their power, they want a change to their ultimate's. It's not the power of the ultimate that is the problem (all heroes kinda have broken ultimates, with some exceptions) the problem stems from the fact that when a support ulties the game stops being played (not always CND can be countered by Magneto and Iron man). This is the main complain the community has. Ulti stacking can make the game unplayable for up to 30 sec or even more. And this problem is more common in higher ranks (plat and above). In lower elos there is no such coordination between support nor is the meta followed.

[Tsorig]

Originally posted by andynnos:

Originally posted by Tsorig:

Yes the statics and win rates are facts, behind the facts are reasons, behind reason are theory and opinions.

Why would Luna and C&D being in top 5 bans ever, if they are so bad like you make it sounds like they are. Why would most of community ask supports getting nerf if they are just so bad like you are telling as a "fact", right?

First I need to apologize to you. Rereading what I wrote sounds harsh. It wasn't my intention. English is a language I learned by myself. In my culture people are quite direct.

On topic I never said the heroes are bad. My intention was to say that the heroes aren't as op as people make them to be. The community don't want nerfs to their power, they want a change to their ultimate's. It's not the power of the ultimate that is the problem (all heroes kinda have broken ultimates, with some exceptions) the problem stems from the fact that when a support ulties the game stops being played (not always CND can be countered by Magneto and Iron man). This is the main complain the community has. Ulti stacking can make the game unplayable for up to 30 sec or even more. And this problem is more common in higher ranks (plat and above). In lower elos there is no such coordination between support nor is the meta followed.

NP mate and that's exactly why people want them to get nerfed, mostly cutting out ult time or give them longer time to build up.

Right now as a GM rank myself. I'm kind of tired of seeing C&D geting her first ult out in 40 sec afte game start "Us against the world !!", after that there comes Luna "I am ready to put on a show !” and if there is 3rd support like Invis woman "Dissapear".

After all this, the C&D have already closely ult nearly 100% and then whole thing repeats again. People really wanna play the game and not just look how supports getting their ults done one after another. The most playable game I recently had was when Luna and C&D both are banned. It's so much funnier to play and I'm a support and Tank main myself. So this is not even biased opinion about wanting supports getting some nerf.

[Ironside]

this thread just seems like DDs with coping issues.

[Tsorig]

Originally posted by Ironside:

this thread just seems like DDs with coping issues.

Or maybe just players who wants to play the game and not have like 1 min coffee breaks between every half minute when supports geting their ults done..

The 3 support meta is real and very disgusting..

[RawwkinGrimmie64]

"I'm a Punisher main who doesn't like how my ultimate can be countered by supports".

Stop whining. Punisher's ultimate can one shot past nearly every ultimate in the game. Vanguard and Duelists need to learn that their ultimates wiping the floor with an entire team ALSO stalls out the game by forcing the enemy to not play for 10 seconds, then take the time to regroup since you essentially double KO'd them 3 times during your Hexa ult.

Storm, Punisher, Star Lord, Spiderman, Iron Man, Dr. Strange,Moon Knight, Peni Parker, Psylock freaking WINTER SOLDIER! I can on, but do I really need to? All of these ultimates and more have the potential to wipe out at least half of the enemy team, some of them also drag on for ages (looking at you Star Lord, Winter Soldier, and Squirrel Girl().

So the Vanguards and Duelists can all have super cool auto-aim, nova damage, stun lock, and area denial ultimates, some of which can bypass and out damage any ultimate in the game...

But the healers are too strong?

[andynnos]

Originally posted by Tsorig:

Originally posted by andynnos:

First I need to apologize to you. Rereading what I wrote sounds harsh. It wasn't my intention. English is a language I learned by myself. In my culture people are quite direct.

On topic I never said the heroes are bad. My intention was to say that the heroes aren't as op as people make them to be. The community don't want nerfs to their power, they want a change to their ultimate's. It's not the power of the ultimate that is the problem (all heroes kinda have broken ultimates, with some exceptions) the problem stems from the fact that when a support ulties the game stops being played (not always CND can be countered by Magneto and Iron man). This is the main complain the community has. Ulti stacking can make the game unplayable for up to 30 sec or even more. And this problem is more common in higher ranks (plat and above). In lower elos there is no such coordination between support nor is the meta followed.

NP mate and that's exactly why people want them to get nerfed, mostly cutting out ult time or give them longer time to build up.

Right now as a GM rank myself. I'm kind of tired of seeing C&D geting her first ult out in 40 sec afte game start "Us against the world !!", after that there comes Luna "I am ready to put on a show !” and if there is 3rd support like Invis woman "Dissapear".

After all this, the C&D have already closely ult nearly 100% and then whole thing repeats again. People really wanna play the game and not just look how supports getting their ults done one after another. The most playable game I have recently had was when Luna and C&D both are banned. It's so much funnier to play and I'm a support and Tank main myself. So this is not even bieased opinion about wanting supports geting some nerf.

Oh you reached GM? Congratulation that is quite the achievement! I agree CND ulti charges a bit to fast. (CND it's my most played champ). But her power outside the ulti is actually slightly weaker than Lunas, Mantis or even Invis Woman. I don't think it's a problem with the numbers or her kit, but more because changing forms it's more like a ministun. And that slight time lost across a whole match adds up. As an example if I need to run away with my cloack I ned to change form, right click and than fly away and after that I need to go back to Dagger to be able to heal. But with invis women I press space and I can start healing again instantly. I hope I make sense in what I wrote.

Overall I completely agree that the supports ultimate's need a change. We just need to be careful what we ask for. I think they should try to add a healing debuff as a penalty for stacking ulties. It wouldn't completely be uselles but a coordinated team should be able to burst through it.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Polarcrest:

.

I have faced teams that were Luna, Mantis and Loki at the same time. That is three ults that make the enemy team invincible. That is just too much. It's much too frequent that I'll pop my ult and their ult just negates mine. It's too much. Especially when you have an Adam Warlock and Rocket as your healer and can't match that.

As Punisher, I'll pop my ult and lay into someone during their ult and I can't kill them. That is not okay. Increased healing sure...but that is not "increased healing" it's invulnerability.

Okay, so here's what your team is doing wrong (and yeah, you need to work as a team to overcome triple healer ults):

* You and Rocket need to hold your ults until they pop theirs.
* Once they pop, you pop PLUS Rocket drops his teamup.
* OMG smoking holes where ults once were.

This works every time, but only if instructions are followed.

[IndianaJones]

Originally posted by Sledge:

From a quick-play perspective, I don't think it matters much and is a good laugh.

From a competitive perspective, the hero design is absolutely hilarious. Strategist ultimate design for the most part is busted beyond belief.

Why wouldnt it matter fo QP???
You sound like typical thrower in QP, its not ranked so i can mess up with everyones game.

[Peredur]

For healer ult, the only one I see being a big issue is the one of Luna that heal way too much, on a way to large radius, for way too long. And if you don't need the heal, you can just switch to get a better Raccoon's ult (same boost, same duration, mobile).
And the rare counters are not reliable (you can't always have Iron Man ready for such situation).


Mantis's ult feels better. She can still attack/heal but the ult heals less, lasts less (maybe this could be shortened a little bit) and the range feels smaller.

Invisible Woman's ult is quite similar to Manti's (she can still act, same duration, little more healing, less radius) and the view 'obstruction' it provides is the same for everyone. There is the slow but it's only on entering/leaving the area, not on being in the area (no idea why).
Moreover, you just need to kill the Invisible Woman for the ult to me removed instantly (no idea why some elements stays on a character's death while others are directly removed instead of waiting for them to simply end :/ ).

C&D's ult I didn't understand why they added a dash. But, after using it more, one big issue is that many players don't understand it heals: allies don't try to go in it, even leave it as quick as possible (then complains C&D is not healing them). Moreover, it doesn't last long. The website says 10sec but it's not 10sec. After the 4th dash, the area of the first is no longer there.
And it is also completely removed on C&D's death (why?).


Luna's definitely need some balance. As some other OP ults (like Storm's, Winter Soldier's, Psyloke's...).
But the others are not OP and simply slowing how fast we're able to build them may be enough.

[Sledge]

Winter Soldier's ultimate is OP? Really?

WS is exactly what an ultimate should be in my eyes.

He's killable as he winds it up, he's killable as he tries to secure a kill, enough damage needs to be done to a target to execute.

About the only thing I'd probably change on it is to have it cap at a certain amount of usage, I don't think it should go above 5 to be honest, but if a WS and his team manages to pull off a successful execute on five of your team with it, then I'd say it's deserved lol.

I'd argue that WS is probably one of the best feeling duelists in the game right now tbh.

[Polarcrest]

You know when you post something, you hope you have a valid point and aren't just QQing so I'm happy to see so many of you agreeing and with very valid points.

To whoever pushed back about the punisher ult. You are wrong though. YES my ult can tear through someone in a second but, if any of those five healers use one of those ults, it 100% counters not only mine, but everything else. I can be in Peni's face laying into her and it will not kill her.

Why even have the text that says "greatly increases healing"? Why "healing" just say it makes them immune for 10 seconds.

Marvel Rivals is amazing but they can do better. Having 4 ults that all do the exact same thing is just dumb and boring. Why is mantis just healing? She plays with emotions. Have her mind control an enemy or something, put the enemy team to sleep, make them all run away in fear.

Invisible woman's doesn't need to heal, the invisibility cone is good enough as is. Maybe it does a bit of damage to enemy heroes. Luna doesn't need to heal either, have it freeze people in place while doing damage. Just a few examples of the hundreds of ideas that could be implemented. What we have sucks.

Also, I do agree with mass wipe ults. They are just as bad and boring. Spiderman, ironman, scarlet witch, moon knight. Out of those though, I only have an issue with spiderman and moon knight. They are instant and you can't react to them. Ironman and Scarlet have a huge indicator before hand and can be countered or at least you can run. Spiderman and Moon Knight well...you are just dead.

[Sledge]

I'll be honest though, I absolutely love making a mockery of Spiderman's ult by pulling him from it with Winter Soldier.

Amazing.