||Bug: Dev Team Forgot Casual Players||

[AChristianGamer]

Devs,

Please do not listen to Comp Players for Balancing Advice. Most Comp Players are way too zoomed in on 1 point of detail to be able to see the bigger picture in terms of Both Casual AND Competitive Game Balance.

Without Casual players to love and support the game, there is no Marvel Rivals, so focus on Casual Game Balance first and foremost.

Casual Players keep the game alive, so keep things fun. Remember, Unfair isn't fun.

Please and Thank you.

~~Casual Viewpoint Balance Requests:~~

Jeff: No one uses his Ult to defend teammates, as it takes too long to do so against other Ults. It is primarily used as a Offensive Ult, so please make it more like Venom's Ult and fully lean into the Jaws parody.

Also, his current Ult can interupt Teammate Ults, and that in itself is an Unforgivable Sin.
--
Moonknight: Please revert his Ult. It's not fun hearing "THE!" and then immediatly dying to it.
--
Storm: Same request as Moonknight's. I do like the increased projectile speed for her primary attack, but since she already can increase the damage of other teammates and herself, I'd say reduce her primary dmg to 40 per hit for easier and more fun/fair match-ups (Especially against Iron Man, yeesh it's impossible to fight her as him).
--
Stratagist Role in general:
Please Make the Triple Healer Meta less oppressive. Possible ways to do this could be;

Reduce the base percentage of healing players can do on a team if there's more than 2 healers. For example:
2H x 100% = 200% Healing
3H x 90% = 270% Healing

There would still be more healing with 3 Healers than 2, but it would force said Healers to work together more.

As of now, people can have 1 Healer go with a Flanker, with 2 Healers staying with a Tank and DPS in front.

Unless the enemy team has 3 Healers to counter this, they're screwed.

(Friends' Suggestion) Make a tailored Anti-Heal hero, like how Wolverine is Anti-Tank.

Lower Stratagists health pool down from the average of 250 min to something like 200. (There has been so many times where I've almost killed a Healer, only for them to escape at 1 health and immediatly get their self heals off of cool-down.)

Tanks, DPS, and Healer composition should not be restricted in any way, as it stunts creativity and overall game health.

It's not fun when nobody can output any meaningful damage to anyone becuase of excessive heal spamming.
--
General Comp:
Please put Character Banning into all Ranks.
--
General Quickplay:
Please make it so everyone waits for all players to load in before the match starts.

We financially poor gamers don't have the pc specs to insta-load the game maps (Especially Spider Tokyo), and it's not fair or fun for anyone to have a teammate (or yourself) load in 3 minutes after the match starts, leaving only half the time left for any financially poor gamers to get to play the game. The load times are even worse when playing with friends in a team lobby.
--
||The Part about "Skill Issue"||
To those who might say that comp players know the game better: They're right, they do. But only for their skill level. If you were to make a perfect game for competitive players, then many people who joined this game to begin with, whether new or casual, would quit.

Out of the 1.5 million players, Comp players are the minority, and yet they have some of the loudest and most ear-drum breaking voices of the community. (This is not indicitive of ALL Comp Players, it's just the relatively few rotten apples that plague every community that make such a fuss)

What I worry about, is this game losing it's majority playerbase, to the few who want to push this game to be harder and more punishing, for no other reason than a self-ish dopamine rush at the expense of everyone else.

There needs to be a beginner friendly level for players to start at with every character, and skill ceiling that each can aspire to climb before becoming a pro.

Speaking of, if Comp Players are so keen to shape the Competitive Scene... Then why are so many of them (not all) smurfing to curb stomp in casual.

It's one thing to shape this game to your own Competitive Edge. It's another, to abuse that game shaping power, and hurt the Casual Playerbase with un-needed buffs that go way over the line than what it ever needed to be.

Competitive Players should not be allowed to hurt the Casual and Noobie Community of Marvel Rivals like this.

Becuase with Great Power, comes Great Responsibility. And many Comp Players (Not all) have been very irresponsible lately.
--
||DPS: Broken or Not?||
(Do not harass anyone)
~Rephrased from an Anonymous User~

"If one would want to downgrade a core point of Marvel Rivals, gripe about damage. Damage is the biggest issue, as every hero can deal more than enough damage. DPS, because of this, have absurd quantities of damage per second to compensate for Healers and Tanks having far more damage than what is reasonable. If DPS was not as overtuned as it was, l'd argue that the 3 Healer Meta would fade out, as this was the result from attempting to stop matches from Snowballing."

~Rephrased from a different Anomymous User~

"I have never heard someone say 'Healers are hard to play' within any game, nor in this one.

Most DPS players are of little help. They perceive that they are excelling, because they get kills. Though one might kill a Tank 10 times, this does not mean much, during the event that an Enemy Luna has used her Ultimate."

Are DPS bad at their jobs, or have their jobs been made too difficult?

Regardless of what is said, I know that one class is more difficult to play than the other.

Such difficulty should be rewarded when played well in-game, as this would be fair.

The less difficult a task, the weaker the reward should be on return.

This is why landing an Iron Man Ult is so satifying, becuase it's difficult to do well, and it's properly rewarded when the player does land that rare 4-player KO.

The same is true for landing a Luna's Snowball CC to freeze enemies.

When it comes to the matter of DPS versus Healer, both should equally be able to Damage and Heal their targets, as this then makes it a game of precision on both the Healer and DPS to see who can hit the Tank more.

If one is stronger than the other on an equal playing field, then niether are able play a fair game.

If solo DPS can out-damage a Solo Healer, then the game is too easy for a DPS player.
(Example: Storm - Her CC abilities are too strong for a solo Healer to manage)

If Solo Healer can out-heal a Solo DPS, then it's too easy for the Healer.
(Example: Luna Snow, Cloak and Dagger, Invisible Woman, Mantis - Each has a CC abilty, the ability to Heal Multiple targets at once, and above average attack capabilities for a sterotypical healer.)

There is reason this game's tempo is dictated by exclusively Healers, and there will come a certain point on this game's current path, where the Comp Meta will literally be comprised of only Stratagist.

If Stratagist get to be Healers and DPS at the same time, then their healing needs to be reduced in some way to make them less effective at being everything, aside from a Tank, given they share the same minimum healthpool of 250hp with DPS.
--
Thank you everyone for the incredible feed-back!

----A Deeper Reflection After Thought----
(Excerpt taken from a friendly discussion on Discord after having slept with this post in mind)

(Me)
"Mayhaps l've gotten a bit too heated over Healers being too good (In my Opinion) in Marvel Rivals. This is just like Alien Isolation where I got mad at that Auto-Aim Gun.

Does anyone else feel like losing matches and dying is fun to learn from, not if it's just constant from a mistake that's been repeated and unrealized, but in general:

Does anyone else feel like they have fun learning about this game, even when they lose?

If not, then that confirms my Insanity."

(Friend of a Friend 1)
"No, I like to break down my loses, but I have always been that way. I know I don't play perfect, but I love to analyze what went wrong.
I'm sure I could push gm if I had more time too, but l don't."

(Friend of a Friend 2)
"In general damage and healing is overturned in this game. They both need to be dropped down so there's more interactions besides killing people in 1 second.

And this game really boils down to carefully watching ults and responding to them accordingly.

Players don't win fights... Ultimates do."

(Me)
"Tbh, I do like melting through other players as dps, and I don't mind getting melted either if I make a dumb play.

The problem for me is when I can't tell what I'm getting melted by. Like with Hawkeye's arrow not being given a clear direction from where there coming from, or when I get webbed from behind by Spiderman and yet I can't tell how close they are or from what direction behind, or worst of all Moonknights Anks where he can put them behind players in a way that makes it difficult to escape being pinned.

If I know where these threats are, I can react in time to avoid them, but the game doesn't give enough contextaul information to do that in most cases and especially not with Ults."

(Friend of a Friend 2)
"It just all needs to be scaled back. There's no reason for DMG to be as good as it is.

And the same with healing.

Needing to actually coordinate with your teammates to "spike" a player down is not a bad thing."

(Me)
"True, it seems like the only classes that do need teamwork to beat are the tanks."

(Friend of a Friend 2)
"And the fact that supports can kill people just as easy too.

I mean supports are the easiest class to play right now which is why everyone one tricks them.

Not a good reason not to run triple support currently.

Support should do damage but they also shouldn't do as much as the actual DPS classes."

(Me)
"True again.

With how much is going on in this game, it's difficult to tell how changing one aspect will effect another. Perhaps if Dps and Healers were nerfed, Tanks would then become the new meta with their naturally bigger healthpool and ability to deal high damage too.

In the End, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Perhaps the biggest issue comes from the idea of each hero being locked to one catagory of class, creating a mindset for each that they have to be doing 1 certain thing well, or they're not a good hero.

Jeff is pretty good at healing, but many people percieve him as inadequate next to his more complex counterparts.

Same with Iron Man in comparison to Storm, and I can only assume the more characters that come out, the more comparisons will be drawn.

That seems like people's biggest gripe, the constant comparing and mindset boxing of heros to each other, how one hero counters another, yadda yadda.

As the game stands currently, any hero can be played to win with, so long as they work well with their team.

Maybe it's the idea of "Soloing" and becoming "The Best" that has got people looking at the game in a way it was never meant to be seen as.

Becuase to any new players, and to all of us when we were new, we had a blast with the game!

We never questioned each others plays, we easily forgave each other for being stupid, and more than that...

We never blamed the enemy team for being scummy, we just accepted that we suck and kept playing while having fun...

Maybe we still do suck.

It's just a lot harder to tell with all the experience that we have, and all the knowledge we've gained.
--------------------------------------
Case in point, this dude has no idea how the game works, and yet he's pulling off 23-3 games with Venom while only using half of his abilities: (I can't insert the link here, but just search "FatMagic MR: Belching Venom" on Youtube and you'll see what I mean.)

Honestly, FatMagic is the sort of guy we should aspire to think like with our videogame mindsets, becuase I want to have just as much fun as he's having in-game."

[Queen Yuu The Reclusive]

Jeff: Well, yea. People like the idea of a 4+ enemy kill. That just outright wins a fight compared to saving a few teammates with it, rather than... healing... as a healer...

Moon Knight: As far as I'm aware, the issue is that it's just bugged and dealing way more damage than it should. It needs a bug fix, not much else.

Storm: Her damage needs tweaking.

General RANKED*: 100% agree with bans in all ranks. It's just weird having it start in high tiers.

General Quickplay: My friends struggle with pretty decent computers, it sucks.

Now, the one I disagree with... Healers.

Absolutely DO NOT limit who many we can have on our team. I've said it in another thread, but the issue is Luna, Cloak, and Mantis being required 2-ofs on a team with Triple Healer. Otherwise, the game is overtuned for damage. Healers as a whole aren't the issue, it's the Terrible Trio.

[Steve]

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

Devs,

Please do not listen to comp players for balancing advice. Most comp players are way too zoomed in on 1 point of detail to be able to see the bigger picture in terms of both casual AND competitive game balance.

Without casual players to love and support the game, there is no Marvel Rivals, so focus on casual game balance first and foremost.

Casual players keep the game alive, so keep things fun. Remember, unfair isn't fun.

Please and thank you.

~~Casual Viewpoint Balance Requests:~~

Jeff: No one uses his ult to defend teammates, as it takes too long to do so against other Ults. It is primarily used as a offensive ult, so please make it more like Venom's ult and fully lean into the Jaws parody.
--
Moonknight: Please revert his ult. It's not fun hearing "THE!" and then immediatly dying to it.
--
Storm: Same request as Moonknight's. I do like the increased projectile speed for her primary attack, but since she already can increase the damage of other teammates and herself, I'd say reduce her primary dmg to 40 per hit for easier and more fun/fair match-ups (Especially against Iron Man, yeesh it's impossible to fight her as him).
--
Stratagist Role in general: Please limit the amount of Healers in-game to 2, and or reduce the base percentage of healing players can do on a team if there's more than 2 healers. Tanks and DPS are fine to be unlimited/unwieghted.

It's not fun when nobody can output any meaningful damage to anyone becuase of excessive heal spamming.
--
General Comp: Please put character banning into all ranks.
--
General Quickplay: Please make it so everyone waits for all players to load in before the match starts.

We financially poor gamers don't have the pc specs to insta-load the game maps (Especially Spider Tokyo), and it's not fair or fun for anyone to have a teammate (or yourself) load in 3 minutes after the match starts, leaving only half the time left for any financially poor gamers to get to play the game. The load times are even worse when playing with friends in a team lobby.
--

First off, I took the liberty of editing out the extraneous capital letters, and at no charge. You're welcome.

Second, OW2 is thataway >>>

All of these ideas are based on a game with remarkably bad review scores and incredibly low concurrent player numbers compared to MR. Maybe they should be listening to the competitive players more?

Seems to be working a lot better than OW2's confines on creativity, anyway.

[AChristianGamer]

Originally posted by Steve:

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

Devs,

Please do not listen to comp players for balancing advice. Most comp players are way too zoomed in on 1 point of detail to be able to see the bigger picture in terms of both casual AND competitive game balance.

Without casual players to love and support the game, there is no Marvel Rivals, so focus on casual game balance first and foremost.

Casual players keep the game alive, so keep things fun. Remember, unfair isn't fun.

Please and thank you.

~~Casual Viewpoint Balance Requests:~~

Jeff: No one uses his ult to defend teammates, as it takes too long to do so against other Ults. It is primarily used as a offensive ult, so please make it more like Venom's ult and fully lean into the Jaws parody.
--
Moonknight: Please revert his ult. It's not fun hearing "THE!" and then immediatly dying to it.
--
Storm: Same request as Moonknight's. I do like the increased projectile speed for her primary attack, but since she already can increase the damage of other teammates and herself, I'd say reduce her primary dmg to 40 per hit for easier and more fun/fair match-ups (Especially against Iron Man, yeesh it's impossible to fight her as him).
--
Stratagist Role in general: Please limit the amount of Healers in-game to 2, and or reduce the base percentage of healing players can do on a team if there's more than 2 healers. Tanks and DPS are fine to be unlimited/unwieghted.

It's not fun when nobody can output any meaningful damage to anyone becuase of excessive heal spamming.
--
General Comp: Please put character banning into all ranks.
--
General Quickplay: Please make it so everyone waits for all players to load in before the match starts.

We financially poor gamers don't have the pc specs to insta-load the game maps (Especially Spider Tokyo), and it's not fair or fun for anyone to have a teammate (or yourself) load in 3 minutes after the match starts, leaving only half the time left for any financially poor gamers to get to play the game. The load times are even worse when playing with friends in a team lobby.
--

First off, I took the liberty of editing out the extraneous capital letters, and at no charge. You're welcome.

Second, OW2 is thataway >>>

All of these ideas are based on a game with remarkably bad review scores and incredibly low concurrent player numbers compared to MR. Maybe they should be listening to the competitive players more?

Seems to be working a lot better than OW2's confines on creativity, anyway.

You seem to forgotten the awful Overwatch 3-Tanks 3-Healers Meta. You also seem to have forgotten what happened to all the fun weapons that got nerfed for comp in TF2.

Do not question me boy without proof of past mistakes, or I will bring up every historical example to school you.

[Steve]

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

Originally posted by Steve:

First off, I took the liberty of editing out the extraneous capital letters, and at no charge. You're welcome.

Second, OW2 is thataway >>>

All of these ideas are based on a game with remarkably bad review scores and incredibly low concurrent player numbers compared to MR. Maybe they should be listening to the competitive players more?

Seems to be working a lot better than OW2's confines on creativity, anyway.

You seem to forgotten the awful Overwatch 3-Tanks 3-Healers Meta. You also seem to have forgotten what happened to all the fun weapons that got nerfed for comp in TF2.

Do not question me boy without proof of past mistakes, or I will bring up every historical example to school you.

Oho, we have a badass amidst. XD

Remind me how well OW1 did? Because OW2 isn't reminding me of that at all.

[AChristianGamer]

Originally posted by Steve:

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

You seem to forgotten the awful Overwatch 3-Tanks 3-Healers Meta. You also seem to have forgotten what happened to all the fun weapons that got nerfed for comp in TF2.

Do not question me boy without proof of past mistakes, or I will bring up every historical example to school you.

Oho, we have a badass amidst. XD

Remind me how well OW1 did? Because OW2 isn't reminding me of that at all.

And how well is Overwatch 2 doing?

[Steve]

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

Originally posted by Steve:

Oho, we have a badass amidst. XD

Remind me how well OW1 did? Because OW2 isn't reminding me of that at all.

And how well is Overwatch 2 doing?

I wouldn't call it well. 35% reviews, less than 20,000 concurrent.

[AChristianGamer]

Overwatch 1, despite it's mistakes, was doing pretty well for an average, before Blizzard decided to get greedy and make an un-needed sequal.

[Sinistra]

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

Originally posted by Steve:

First off, I took the liberty of editing out the extraneous capital letters, and at no charge. You're welcome.

Second, OW2 is thataway >>>

All of these ideas are based on a game with remarkably bad review scores and incredibly low concurrent player numbers compared to MR. Maybe they should be listening to the competitive players more?

Seems to be working a lot better than OW2's confines on creativity, anyway.

You seem to forgotten the awful Overwatch 3-Tanks 3-Healers Meta. You also seem to have forgotten what happened to all the fun weapons that got nerfed for comp in TF2.

Do not question me boy without proof of past mistakes, or I will bring up every historical example to school you.

Cry More!!!!

[Steve]

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

Overwatch 1, despite it's mistakes, was doing pretty well for an average, before Blizzard decided to get greedy and make an un-needed sequal.

You're absolutely correct on that. Have you forgotten what OW1 was like, though?

Because that's what we got now. This is VERY much like OW1, and it's enjoying similar success because they didn't restrict player creativity like OW2 does. OW1 didn't restrict it anywhere near as much either, did it?

[VillianByNecessity]

Originally posted by Sinistra:

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

You seem to forgotten the awful Overwatch 3-Tanks 3-Healers Meta. You also seem to have forgotten what happened to all the fun weapons that got nerfed for comp in TF2.

Do not question me boy without proof of past mistakes, or I will bring up every historical example to school you.

Cry More!!!!

AChristianGamer is about to spit some HISTORICAL facts and school this fool.

[GenericGamer]

This is the mentality that kills games btw lmaoooo

Comp players actually UNDERSTAND the game, while casual ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ don't even know what is or isn't balanced

[Coliflowerz]

most of these opinions are similar to opinions shared in the competitive side of things idk whats with ur holier-than-thou attitude about being a "casual". Even most competitive ppl know that even though iron fist and scarlet witch are considered not that strong at high level, netease shouldn't buff them too substantially because they would destroy casual lobbies even more than they already do.

[AChristianGamer]

Originally posted by GenericGamer:

This is the mentality that kills games btw lmaoooo

Comp players actually UNDERSTAND the game, while casual ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ don't even know what is or isn't balanced

I am casual. Doofus. It's a mentality like this that gatekeeps new players from joining the game, and prevents casuals from wanting to improve. Once the Casual and Noobie crowd stop coming back, that's when you get a dead live service title.

Comp can kill Casual fun by raising the Skill Floor too high, Casual can kill Comp by lowering the Skill Ceiling too low.

What I want is a High Skill Ceiling, and Low Skill Floor. I'm sure everyone would like that sort of freedom of skill expression within this game, no matter how good or bad they are at it.

We the Casuals and Noobs, as the majority of this playerbase, just want to have fun.

[Queen Yuu The Reclusive]

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

Originally posted by GenericGamer:

This is the mentality that kills games btw lmaoooo

Comp players actually UNDERSTAND the game, while casual ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ don't even know what is or isn't balanced

I am casual. Doofus. It's a mentality like this that gatekeeps new players from joining the game, and prevents casuals from wanting to improve. Once the Casual and Noobie crowd stop coming back, that's when you get a dead live service title.

Comp can kill Casual fun by raising the Skill Floor too high, Casual can kill Comp by lowering the Skill Ceiling too low.

What I want is a High Skill Ceiling, and Low Skill Floor. I'm sure everyone would like that sort of freedom of skill expression within this game, no matter how good or bad they are at it.

We the Casuals and Noobs, as the majority of this playerbase, just want to have fun.

This is a competitive game. The goal of a competitive game is to win. Winning is fun. Winning is the first priority.

What you want is to ruin the game by dumbing it down in the wrong ways, I've already given my proper opinion on your post. However, you've made edits.

Absolutely DO NOT need a hero designed just to gimp healing. Healing is not an issue, stop being willingly blind to the real issue; Terrible Trio of Luna, Cloak, and Mantis being a 2-of for Triple Healer. No, it isn't 3 Healers that is the issue, it's those three being a required 2-of. They need number tweaks, nothing more. We don't need to gimp healers because monkey-brained Main Character Syndrome DPS mains can't freely walk onto the enemy backline and delete them.

If you want to nerf a core point of the game, whine about damage. Damage across the board is the biggest issue, as basically every hero can deal more than enough damage... Too much damage. DPS, because of this, have overtuned damage numbers to compensate for healers and tanks having more damage than they should. If damage wasn't as overtuned as it was, I'd argue 3 Healer would die down a fair bit because it was birthed due to being able to actually stop the absurd damage snowball this game has.

[AChristianGamer]

Originally posted by Queen Yuu The Reclusive:

Originally posted by AChristianGamer:

I am casual. Doofus. It's a mentality like this that gatekeeps new players from joining the game, and prevents casuals from wanting to improve. Once the Casual and Noobie crowd stop coming back, that's when you get a dead live service title.

Comp can kill Casual fun by raising the Skill Floor too high, Casual can kill Comp by lowering the Skill Ceiling too low.

What I want is a High Skill Ceiling, and Low Skill Floor. I'm sure everyone would like that sort of freedom of skill expression within this game, no matter how good or bad they are at it.

We the Casuals and Noobs, as the majority of this playerbase, just want to have fun.

This is a competitive game. The goal of a competitive game is to win. Winning is fun. Winning is the first priority. :nakanoAngry:

What you want is to ruin the game by dumbing it down in the wrong ways, I've already given my proper opinion on your post. However, you've made edits.

Absolutely DO NOT need a hero designed just to gimp healing. Healing is not an issue, stop being willingly blind to the real issue; Terrible Trio of Luna, Cloak, and Mantis being a 2-of for Triple Healer. No, it isn't 3 Healers that is the issue, it's those three being a required 2-of. They need number tweaks, nothing more. We don't need to gimp healers because monkey-brained Main Character Syndrome DPS mains can't freely walk onto the enemy backline and delete them.

If you want to nerf a core point of the game, whine about damage. Damage across the board is the biggest issue, as basically every hero can deal more than enough damage... Too much damage. DPS, because of this, have overtuned damage numbers to compensate for healers and tanks having more damage than they should. If damage wasn't as overtuned as it was, I'd argue 3 Healer would die down a fair bit because it was birthed due to being able to actually stop the absurd damage snowball this game has. :nakanoAngry:

This is with every healer combo, and out of all three classes, they are the easiest to play. This makes barely killing them before they run away and or self heal all the more frustrating. The only reason people might think Healers are hard to play, is becuase they're looking at everyone else, and assuming that without their healing, those teammates would be useless. And even when they do heal others, they'll call their teammates useless anyway, becuase they assume that they're the most important player and in doing so disregard their teammates achievements.

Most Healer Mains create their own stress from watching others, rather than playing those classes and heros themselves.

(Aside from Rocket and Rocket Mains, those people are dope. Fun and fair to chase after, flee as, and play with on a team)

Also, this is a Videogame.

The point is to have fun, or challenge yourself to be better.

Not Winning.