C+D is way better than Mantis

[pkmnace]

I've been trying since launch to get Mantis's achievement. I'm almost at max proficiency with her now because I've used her so much. From luck alone, I think I should've been present for a team wipe by now, but somehow haven't been. Today I was so frustrated playing as her on yet another team all running around solo that I decided to say screw it and swap mid match to C+D, who I haven't played yet so I still needed her achievement too.

Her healing output is higher. Her attacks home in on the enemy. She can swap to DPS when your teammates all run away from you as you are desperately trying to keep them alive despite their best wishes. And her ult actually disrupts the enemy team, unlike Mantis's 2 seconds of healing, which Luna Snow does infinitely better too.

And I got C+D's achievement in that very match, even though my team was like herding cats. Which bums me out, because now I got to return to playing Mantis. Mantis mains, I don't know how you do it.

[Queen Yuu The Reclusive]

No one is saying Mantis is better than Cloak. It's just a fact.

I'm a Mantis main that has branched to Loki, with Mantis being the go-to for healing Ironman [With Hulk!]/Storm/Starlord or for 3 DPS comps. Mantis doesn't do what Cloak does, and vice versa. Mantis is a combat medic that gives her DPS drugs to go on roid rages, Cloak... actually heals primarily.

[Terotrous]

I'm guessing you don't know the secret to her sleep. Sleep has an animation that takes a second or so before the target can be woken up. It lasts long enough for you to get 2 headshots in most situations if you start attacking immediately. The third headshot will kill a squishy, so if done optimally, your sleep just deletes squishies outright. Just make sure you don't have to reload.

Anyway, the key to Mantis is to be hyper-aggressive with her. Always be damage boosted. Always be attacking. Attempt to land sleeps on anyone near you. Fear no one. She's basically just McCree from Overwatch except that she can also heal.

[pkmnace]

Originally posted by Queen Yuu The Reclusive:

No one is saying Mantis is better than Cloak. It's just a fact.

I'm a Mantis main that has branched to Loki, with Mantis being the go-to for healing Ironman [With Hulk!]/Storm/Starlord or for 3 DPS comps. Mantis doesn't do what Cloak does, and vice versa. Mantis is a combat medic that gives her DPS drugs to go on roid rages, Cloak... actually heals primarily.

Just venting my frustrations. I've been slowly getting the achievements to get the free blue currency. And basically since launch I've been trying to get Mantis's because when I read the description it immediately struck me as the most luck based, which I'd prefer to get stuff like that out of the way first. And every time there is the monthly challenges for other characters that's when I go for the other characters in the game. But I'm just completely shocked by how long I've been hoping for Mantis's achievement to finally unlock.

And I've had really good plays as her. When you have a team that is actually working together, she's pretty amazing for the buffs she provides. But it really sucks how her basic attacks don't heal. I've had games where my teammates give me heck, saying I need to heal them. But I don't think they've ever played Mantis before, because she only has 4 measly heals before she has to recharge. And then they see me attacking enemies and think I'm focusing on DPS, when I'm just getting a few headshots to quickly fill my heal charges. It's all very frustrating too because when I have my best games, it's when I'm buffing primarily, and an additional Healer like C+D is handling the healing side of things. But so many times in the lobby, people see me choose Healer, so then all 5 of my teammates choose Duelist, I guess because they think I have them all covered.

So if I'm talking my own preferences, I'd want to choose C+D the majority of the time, and only play Mantis if there is actual team cohesion. Because despite Mantis being support, Mantis without support is an absolute slog to play. I'm very much looking forward to finally getting the achievement one day so I never have to touch her again.

[Queen Yuu The Reclusive]

I mean, it's kinda luck based I guess? Aces aren't the most common, but it's certainly not that hard.

Easier than Loki's...

[AvidExpert]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

I'm guessing you don't know the secret to her sleep. Sleep has an animation that takes a second or so before the target can be woken up. It lasts long enough for you to get 2 headshots in most situations if you start attacking immediately. The third headshot will kill a squishy, so if done optimally, your sleep just deletes squishies outright. Just make sure you don't have to reload.

Anyway, the key to Mantis is to be hyper-aggressive with her. Always be damage boosted. Always be attacking. Attempt to land sleeps on anyone near you. Fear no one. She's basically just McCree from Overwatch except that she can also heal.

Wait until a high rank Starlord or Psilock decides to give you a lil tickle before fully committing.

IDK, high rank Mantis is in an odd spot.

I'd much prefer Raccoon for revive/heals for odd chars like Starlord, Ironman, storm, divers etc while also being immune to most enemy ults/divers.

Or an Adam for soulbonding through bs ults.

Or a Loki.

Mantis is 10/10 when the enemy has a char like Psilock or BP though.

[pkmnace]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

I'm guessing you don't know the secret to her sleep. Sleep has an animation that takes a second or so before the target can be woken up. It lasts long enough for you to get 2 headshots in most situations if you start attacking immediately. The third headshot will kill a squishy, so if done optimally, your sleep just deletes squishies outright. Just make sure you don't have to reload.

Anyway, the key to Mantis is to be hyper-aggressive with her. Always be damage boosted. Always be attacking. Attempt to land sleeps on anyone near you. Fear no one. She's basically just McCree from Overwatch except that she can also heal.

Her Sleep attack is amazing, not just for eliminating squishies, but even for fleeing. It lasts so long as long as none of your teammates hit the person, so if you're a tick away from being KO'd, it's amazing. I'll also use it to quickly fill my charges by getting the guaranteed headshots.

But it doesn't make her a one man army. If the enemy team is actually working together, it doesn't matter if Sleep is used, you still get pummelled. And when your own team are all off doing their own thing, she becomes worse and worse. Ideally I get at least one tank I can tag along with to draw attention away from myself and buff at the same time. Or I actually have a second Healer who handles healing while I buff.

And I just want her achievement. Then I can let other, better Mantis players have her spot on my team. My best characters are Peni Parker and Squirrel Girl, but I rarely get to play as them because I'm still somehow stuck on this achievement.

[pkmnace]

Originally posted by Queen Yuu The Reclusive:

I mean, it's kinda luck based I guess? Aces aren't the most common, but it's certainly not that hard.

Easier than Loki's...

See, I got Loki's in a single match of Conquest, or whatever the Team Deathmatch mode is called. Just keep running in at people your teammates are already working on and it's really easy. And it's entirely dependent on your own action.

With Mantis, it's basically pure luck if you get the achievement. And I despise achievements like that because it means I can't really sway the situation, I just have to wait for it to happen, which is exactly why I decided to go for it first, hoping to get it out of the way. Which I thought might take a week, not over a month. And I've gotten ace many times with other characters during that time, but never as Mantis yet. What I wish was the case is that Mantis's basic attacks could heal teammates. Immediately with C+D, I actually felt like I contributed towards helping my team get a team wipe because she actually thoroughly keeps the heavy hitters in the game longer because she heals so efficiently.

What would be a nice change would be if they allowed achievements to be earned against the computer, like how they allow daily challenges to be earned that way. Getting team wipes against the AI happens almost every game, regardless of if your teammates are seemingly allergic to you buffing them.

[pkmnace]

Originally posted by Jincel #1:

Originally posted by Terotrous:

I'm guessing you don't know the secret to her sleep. Sleep has an animation that takes a second or so before the target can be woken up. It lasts long enough for you to get 2 headshots in most situations if you start attacking immediately. The third headshot will kill a squishy, so if done optimally, your sleep just deletes squishies outright. Just make sure you don't have to reload.

Anyway, the key to Mantis is to be hyper-aggressive with her. Always be damage boosted. Always be attacking. Attempt to land sleeps on anyone near you. Fear no one. She's basically just McCree from Overwatch except that she can also heal.

Wait until a high rank Starlord or Psilock decides to give you a lil tickle before fully committing.

IDK, high rank Mantis is in an odd spot.

I'd much prefer Raccoon for revive/heals for odd chars like Starlord, Ironman, storm, divers etc while also being immune to most enemy ults/divers.

Or an Adam for soulbonding through bs ults.

Or a Loki.

A good Loki is always awesome. I've played with a few Loki players that go the entire match without ever being KO'd, keep our tanks in tip top shape, and always grab the best ults with their shapeshift ability. I remember one game I played where as soon as our Luna Snow's ult ended, that had kept everyone alive on the point, our Loki then activated her ability again. It felt like a full minute of invincibility, it was insane.

Psylock I've seen some amazing stuff from too and it's what I try to imitate whenever I play her. Where I have teammates playing as her, but I never even really see them all match. They are just constantly attack the enemy's backside, so they never have any healers the whole game and we just dominate.

And I keep hoping to get a game where I'm partnered with peak players like that. But it honestly feels like every time I choose Mantis, that's when the game matches me with people who think they're playing COD.

[AvidExpert]

Originally posted by pkmnace:

Originally posted by Jincel #1:

Wait until a high rank Starlord or Psilock decides to give you a lil tickle before fully committing.

IDK, high rank Mantis is in an odd spot.

I'd much prefer Raccoon for revive/heals for odd chars like Starlord, Ironman, storm, divers etc while also being immune to most enemy ults/divers.

Or an Adam for soulbonding through bs ults.

Or a Loki.

A good Loki is always awesome. I've played with a few Loki players that go the entire match without ever being KO'd, keep our tanks in tip top shape, and always grab the best ults with their shapeshift ability. I remember one game I played where as soon as our Luna Snow's ult ended, that had kept everyone alive on the point, our Loki then activated her ability again. It felt like a full minute of invincibility, it was insane.

Psylock I've seen some amazing stuff from too and it's what I try to imitate whenever I play her. Where I have teammates playing as her, but I never even really see them all match. They are just constantly attack the enemy's backside, so they never have any healers the whole game and we just dominate.

And I keep hoping to get a game where I'm partnered with peak players like that. But it honestly feels like every time I choose Mantis, that's when the game matches me with people who think they're playing COD.

Loki gets good DPS too, so he heals well, DPS's well, counters ults on a lowish cooldown ability and if you can play all the chars well is very much OP asf imo.

YOu will see more Loki as time go's on with the ability to completely counter ults like Psilock, Starlord, Iron man etc.

Also Loki's ult if done properly charges faster than any other healer by a large margin, so your second healer with w/e OP heal they have as you said, it comes faster from Loki.

if MK is in play though, he has to be switched off of.

[Get Out]

Yes C&D is literally the most broken hero in the game. Requires little to no game sense and skill to get the maximum potential. No wonder she is the most common "Lord" in the game. Most bad players use her OP kit as a crutch.

[AvidExpert]

Originally posted by Get out.:

Yes C&D is literally the most broken hero in the game. Requires little to no game sense and skill to get the maximum potential. No wonder she is the most common "Lord" in the game. Most bad players use her OP kit as a crutch.

Idk man, pick Magneto, press Q and one shot her when she literally cannot do anything to evade ur ult in her ult.

Iron man too.

You can winter soldier her slightly after her last dash.

Wolverine can kidnap her after her last dash.

also Wolverine, winter soldier and Magneto are some of the most common picks right now.

Once you kidnap and kill her, she instantly loses her ult as it disappears in death.

Luna is a bigger problem.

[pkmnace]

Originally posted by Jincel #1:

Idk man, pick Magneto, press Q and one shot her when she literally cannot do anything to evade ur ult in her ult.

Iron man too.

You can winter soldier her slightly after her last dash.

Wolverine can kidnap her after her last dash.

also Wolverine, winter soldier and Magneto are some of the most common picks right now.

Once you kidnap and kill her, she instantly loses her ult as it disappears in death.

Luna is a bigger problem.

I'm starting to see more and more high level Wolverine players now. I find he seems to be a pseudo tank at times, where I've seen them on both my team or the opponent's team chilling in the center of all 6 enemies, tearing them up and just not going down. It's cool to see, but apart from hitting the back ranks, I can't do much with wolverine.

[melonLord]

Meh. They're both really good. Pros and cons. Asymmetrical balance is asymmetrical.

[Plagues]

They're both good. C&d has tons of utility and solid heals, mantis is basically a dps who can heal, and buff allies. Mantis isn't a "main support", but a perfect 2nd.

[kw0lf.tw]

I play C&D b/c I can't reliably land headshots, but if I could, I'd definitely main Mantis