Healing is too powerful

[Forced2Finish]

This isn't about "bah I lost a game boo hoo."
This is serious discussion about the strength of healing in this game. It's way over tuned. I saw it from the release of the game. Now Meta in higher ranks is now 3 healers 1 Dps and 2 Tank.
This crap is broken and needs to be toned down a TON. It's so over tuned that a healer can keep up someone getting spammed by 3 dps almost for infinity. You shouldn't be seeing health bars go from 20 hp to full in less than a second. That is absurd. It makes the game play feel really cheap.
There are only a few dps in the game that actually do damage through this healing. Psylocke, Moon Knight (only if they don't kill ank in time), Squirrel Girl, Hawkey*Nerfed*, Hela*Nerfed*, Winter Soldier(if you can aim) and now Storm. Other than that.. you're not playing anything else unless you want to tickle people for 30 minutes in a standstill.

Melee feels like garbage to play, you go in and you tickle someone they react and then the entire team looks at you and you die. <Melee> needs to be buffed a TON. The damage is laughable compared to ranged and their HP needs a huge buff.

Tone down the Healing, raise the HP of melee or lower ranged damage buy a TON. And increase melee damage. I mean it's even super hard to kill healers, they just heal each other to full constantly.. You're a dps and you go in and do your combo and leave and you look at their health and it didn't move at all.. like wtf game play is that?

This game feels awful to play at times when the fights just go on and on and on and on and nothing dies because the healers can 1 > 100 heal you in less than a second. Too many Ults that make other Ult useless, it's just a mess. Really awful game play.

I get it, it's a new game and we haven't had that in a long time but it's not good game play at all.

[Ginzo Force]

Originally posted by PuppyGirl:

Maybe you should change your tactics. A DPS can easily kill a healer. Its cleared you are attacking the tanks only while healers heal them. You gotta use your brain. I know most gamers don't like doing that.

I guess I came from an era before moba slop when it was possible to kill a player being healed

Thus moon knight is basically required to break teams

[Octarius]

Originally posted by MikaMangoMango:

Remember that people who main support characters tend to be REALLY good at the game, so it's not just that the healers are over tuned, but you have to be a winning and team oriented person to main healers

He doesn't and won't understand it. NeRf HeAlInG 🤡 After healing he will come with "tanks have to much HP, I can't kill them fast, nerf pls"

[Octarius]

Originally posted by Forced2Finish:

Originally posted by Sister Iris:

if you want a balanced game go play overwatch

I am right now.

And stay there pls

[Octarius]

Originally posted by Ginzo Force:

Originally posted by PuppyGirl:

Maybe you should change your tactics. A DPS can easily kill a healer. Its cleared you are attacking the tanks only while healers heal them. You gotta use your brain. I know most gamers don't like doing that.

I guess I came from an era before moba slop when it was possible to kill a player being healed

Thus moon knight is basically required to break teams

If your dps is being nuked by Iron Fist, Black Panther or Wolverine you won't heal it over. No matter what healer will you pick. You just won't. Unless you waste ultimate on him ofc...

[PuppyGirl]

Originally posted by Ginzo Force:

Originally posted by PuppyGirl:

Maybe you should change your tactics. A DPS can easily kill a healer. Its cleared you are attacking the tanks only while healers heal them. You gotta use your brain. I know most gamers don't like doing that.

I guess I came from an era before moba slop when it was possible to kill a player being healed

Thus moon knight is basically required to break teams

Its not a moba thing it's just simple logic

[hi friends]

doesn't most support lack self heals though?
(outside of ikea version of moira balls or that one ability that can be used every 12 seconds or something)

[Arc]

Originally posted by hi friends:

doesn't most support lack self heals though?
(outside of ikea version of moira balls or that one ability that can be used every 12 seconds or something)

no
adam, cloak, invis woman, jeff, loki, rocket, luna and mantis (so that's literally all of them) can self-heal
the majority do it with 0 cooldown
even among the 3 who use cooldown to self-heal, loki is doing it via shooting himself with his own clones, so cooldown usually isn't an issue
both luna and mantis (the infamous top tier picks) self-heal when healing others which is part of why they're so strong

[Mossback]

I don't fully agree with your stance to nerf the healing aspect but at least make it so the ults like luna has and other ones don't give your team nor the enemy one invicibility for 12 seconds straight, its just purely not fun at all. Too often I am stuck in a situation as an DPS where my damage output is basically useless because a healer managed to find a Q button on their keyboard. For the people that say that there is a counter to that then really good luck trying to coordinate with randoms a way to "stun" the healer before they can pull off their ult unless you're in grandmaster and above.

[Terotrous]

I most frequently play healer and I generally agree, though it's not as bad as Overwatch, this was actually something I brought up in Overwatch a long time ago. It's generally an undesirable thing for healers to be able to heal people to full in a couple seconds, because it forces DPS characters to have extreme burst DPS to be able to overcome it, which results in a super low TTK that makes the game somewhat overly volatile. That said, I don't think too far off, I think you could probably multiply all healing by 90% and it would probably be fine, it should just barely be enough that a single healer cannot keep a player alive who's under heavy fire.

It's also the case that Mantis and Luna Snow's ults provide far too much healing, though in this case, the amount of healing they provide should probably be about halved. Again, this shouldn't be able to protect a character from death if they're taking very heavy damage, especially for Mantis who can still act during hers and thus combine it with other sources of healing.

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Arc:

Originally posted by hi friends:

doesn't most support lack self heals though?
(outside of ikea version of moira balls or that one ability that can be used every 12 seconds or something)

no
adam, cloak, invis woman, jeff, loki, rocket, luna and mantis (so that's literally all of them) can self-heal
the majority do it with 0 cooldown
even among the 3 who use cooldown to self-heal, loki is doing it via shooting himself with his own clones, so cooldown usually isn't an issue
both luna and mantis (the infamous top tier picks) self-heal when healing others which is part of why they're so strong

Luna needs to cast one of her abilities to self heal. She doesn't naturally heal herself with Cryo Heart to my knowledge. She will heal for 30 hp/s if she casts either Ice Arts (changes primary fire to a piercing beam) or Absolute Zero (her freezing shot)

Most of the healer's greatest weaknesses is lack of movement skills. They are sitting ducks for flankers so they need some type of counterplay at their disposal.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Most of the healer's greatest weaknesses is lack of movement skills. They are sitting ducks for flankers so they need some type of counterplay at their disposal.

Actually almost every healer has an escape.

Rocket has his jet dash and wall climb
Jeff has shark form and bubble speed boost
Luna Snow has her freeze
Mantis has her sleep
Invisible Woman has her double jump
Cloak can turn invisible
Loki can swap places with a clone

Adam Warlock is the most vulnerable, but he does have access to a self-revive.

Generally, being able to survive being dived on is one of the most important skills for any healer player. A good healer player should always be the last player on the team to die.

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Most of the healer's greatest weaknesses is lack of movement skills. They are sitting ducks for flankers so they need some type of counterplay at their disposal.

Actually almost every healer has an escape.

Rocket has his jet dash and wall climb
Jeff has shark form and bubble speed boost
Luna Snow has her freeze
Mantis has her sleep
Invisible Woman has her double jump
Cloak can turn invisible
Loki can swap places with a clone

Adam Warlock is the most vulnerable, but he does have access to a self-revive.

Yes, they have CC elements, but they don't have movement skills.


Rocket, Jeff, Invis Woman, and Loki do, two of which are seen as much weaker healers.

Luna, Mantis, and Warlock do not. Cloak and Dagger kind of does, but it only lasts a second and a half and you won't be moving far unless there's high ground you can escape to.

I'd even argue that Invisible Woman's double jump is movement light as any tickle damage will pop her out of invisibility making escape unlikely.

For Mantis and Luna, you need to hit their CC ability which is far more difficult than just dashing out of danger.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Rocket, Jeff, Invis Woman, and Loki do, two of which are seen as much weaker healers.

I maybe agree with you on Jeff, his inability to do strong heals at range is a definite flaw, but don't forget Rocket got buffed and he was already #3 by usage in high level play. His only real problem is his Ult is kinda low value.

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

For Mantis and Luna, you need to hit their CC ability which is far more difficult than just dashing out of danger.

It's actually kinda not that hard. Mantis's especially is quite forgiving. I was atrocious at hitting Ana sleep darts and I still hit Mantis's sleep cloud almost every time.

Sleep cloud also kills squishies too, since you can fire 2 shots before they wake up if done immediately. I killed a Psylocke like 5 times with it in one match last night, it was pretty comical.

[Shuyin178]

It's not that healing is powerful, it's that there is too much damage in this game that healing has to be high as a result.
If healing is to be nerfed, damage has to be nerfed simultaneously. However, if that happens, then we're going to end up with Concord's TTK (to which I heard it was EXTREMELY slow for a Hero shooter from what reports said about it).

All that said, I do believe most Ultimate abilities need toned down. Moon Knight's ult as a damage example now nearly auto-kills anyone that isn't a tank, support ults full healing and constantly regenerating health on long period timers can most of the time make it impossible to counterplay. There are certain design aspects of characters that need shifted down a few notches. Too often it feels like "[X Hero] pressed their button, they win the fight" which to me does not sound like healthy design on a number of current ultimates.

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Rocket, Jeff, Invis Woman, and Loki do, two of which are seen as much weaker healers.

I maybe agree with you on Jeff, his inability to do strong heals at range is a definite flaw, but don't forget Rocket got buffed and he was already #3 by usage in high level play. His only real problem is his Ult is kinda low value.

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

For Mantis and Luna, you need to hit their CC ability which is far more difficult than just dashing out of danger.

It's actually kinda not that hard. Mantis's especially is quite forgiving. I was atrocious at hitting Ana sleep darts and I still hit Mantis's sleep cloud almost every time.

Sleep cloud also kills squishies too, since you can fire 2 shots before they wake up if done immediately. I killed a Psylocke like 5 times with it in one match last night, it was pretty comical.

Though I don't disagree that these windows are forgiving. I'm just pointing out that healers need some type of counterplay since most don't have movement abilities to escape flankers. A movement ability has greater utility in most cases for survivability. This allows them to escape a number of attackers at once. The freeze and sleep are good if there's only one flanker. At higher ranks, flanks get coordinated where it doesn't matter if you freeze a psylocke if there's a venom or spiderman to finish the job.

That's not to say they don't have ways to survive, but that creates the need for some type of defense or self heal. Without such abilities, healers will simply need babysitting which 1) doesn't happen in random lobbies, and 2) isn't fun for the healer or their team