Was Concord a good game but with very unappealing characters that catered to the woke crowd by also putting in pronouns? Can a game be woke and be good?

[Uncle Jon]

I dislike woke uses of pronouns and wokeness in general, but have any of you guys ever tried that Concord game? Apparently it was on Steam, I thought it was a Playstation exclusive lol. People say that DEI and wokeness killed that game, but was it actually a good game but was involved on the wrong side of the culture war? If you don't judge Concord based on its character designs and some other woke aspects was it good as a multiplayer hero shooter? They say woke people do not buy games they demand to be more woke, only the actual consumers which are gamers and they can decide if the game fails or not. But I also heard that gamers don't really care about woke stuff and mainly care if the game itself is fun to play, so it made me question did that game fail solely for culture war reasons despite actually being a good game? If Concord did fail for wokeness does that mean the average gamer is more anti woke? That Concord game failed pretty damn hard especially since Sony spent so many years and money making it, and I think they even wanted to make a tv show based on it? To be fair I would much prefer playing attractive men and women in games than something like a bald lesbian in that new space whatever game Naughty Dog is making right now.

[Squidbeats]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Originally posted by Squidbeats:

How is Baldur's 3 woke, their characters are not ugly and fat? Give me the jesters please.

Oh, the definition of woke changed again?! Who would have thought?

The defintion never changed. They both get victim points

[Uncle Jon]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Even if it was (it wasn't) it would still have gotten a big boost from player numbers, all apealing trash games can get a giant launch day, and then quickly lose players over time.

Concord never even had a big launch day, the gameplay did not matter, at all, if nobody was even willing to play it and see how it looked like.

Lost Ark is a good example of a beautiful game (even though AGS ruined several parts of it's beauty) that was apealing to players.... But the gameplay past the campaign was utter trash. See how their graphs compare, millions were interested in LA, and millions have left, nobody was interested in concord.

Edit: In fact, here you go, 600 players peak
https://steamdb.info/app/2443720/charts/#max
vs
https://steamdb.info/app/1599340/charts/
1.3m peak, this is what I'm talking about.

How the heck does a triple A game that is free to try out only reached about 600 max players? If I knew nothing about that games politics I think I would have atleast tried it out, did Sony not market the game well?

[Bloodwyrm Wildheart]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Right now millions of people are paying to have an early access of PoE2 too

Which further proves my point that most consumers are unprincipled. PoE is an always-online, MTX-laden mobile game moonlighting as an ARPG, which is damaging the genre.
ARPGs have no business being online only or having MTX. They aren't MMOs or CoD.

Meanwhile, Greedy Greedy Games has a track record. They sold "supporter packs" long after the game was still in early development and needed support, only to then go on to shoehorn lootboxes into the game.

[Ruke (Soreasan)]

honestly, even as a skeptic. They kinda killed Concord in the womb so it was dead even by the time you could hear bad pr or good pr about it.

it mechanically didn't look bad, it didn't look super innovative, just unreal engine 5 + vacuum cleaner and big bertha + whatever diversity cat people as the only thin option (love cats, but how is this diversity) was for.

Also kinda irked at the only 'representation' our 'minority' gets is to be the 'fat americans that aren't american' race. I don't find that representation but apparently our 'model minority doesn't attempt to send death threats if made 300 lbs but goes 'SON! you eat too much cheeseburger, you become concord poster boy! Now go do 500 math problem at age 4 or mom not feed you!! Sister already do calculus at 3, why you such dissapointment, Haiiyah!!"

But idk. I mean, something i even got with a sjw friend and a conservative friend and then a far right and a crazy delu lu far left former aquiantance i got was like.

Some of the reasonable middle ends actually do want a lot of the same stuff, good healthcare, good union/labor rights, good jobs in the us, good work for us, job stability, affordable housing, politicians who feel like they actually care about "us", not "we're less terrible than our other options" or "Oh, you're a college educated person? Yeah, i don't really Need to care about you. Who cares what you want".

But instead, we get unaffordable housing with surgeries that cut 1% of the population's flesh off while we have our jobs shipped overseas for exploited workers taking previously 30-50$/hr jobs for 2-7$ a hr, who alledgely can be offshored if they attempt to unionize.

Im not really like "REEE, a vacuum cleaner / fat person exists/ REE".. and i don't relate to the extremes of either spectrum or a 'oh, lets kill half of people "moderate" '.

But i think i get the vibes a lot of sjw from my sjw was just done for posturing, like they didn't care if it was practical, or actually backfired and got their own parents laid off or others, they cared if it looked good on twitter more than if the people even wanted the 'representation' of.. Fat obese takeout eating american sized non american characters..

Or the first Asian Assassin Creed... With a long anticipated setting.. Set during a time Johnny Somali was mocking real life victims of horrific real life kidnappings with outrage streaming, came a assassin creed where a historically accurate character wasn't even playable.

People call it representation but it feels more like virtue signalling, doesn't really make us scream end of the world, we're still working men with jobs and hobbies who don't ignite into flames if someone has a different opinion than us.

But when i see a fat person of my minority get the 'Lol, Not-Americans are so fat, obese, and eat junk food all the time' -american stereotype facelifted onto another race. The last thought i feel is "wow, this makes me feel represented".

It's. "... Is this really what 'representation and DEI is? Being told that as a merit based minority, you'll be punished for studying since birth, while other kids played, being forced to read and do math tables from birth by your parents. Only to get penalized and no scholarships for 'Merit based scholarships only go to the people who earn their right to no show drop out of university?" '

IDK, Concord didn't look bad or light me on fire. But i was told by my immigrant parents that the American dream was working hard for a better future for our kids. Then also told that equal rewards for equal effort wasn't equality anymore, but ableist, and we weren't white enough to 'be white' (then), but we weren't 'black' enough to be a 'minority that actually gets benefits or merit based scholarships.. Off 4.0 vs 1.7 gpas.'

[BingusDingus]

What killed concord wasn't even that it was woke, it was that it was a bare average hero shooter being sold for $40 in a market where Overwatch 2 existed for free. Like Overwatch 2 or not it is a much better game than concord was and it is free, the business model ensured the game was dead on arrival.

[Bloodwyrm Wildheart]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Because you don't have to play a game to determine that it is not worth playing.

And now you're agreeing with me.

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

You can't seriously tell me that you buy every game to check if the gameplay is good.

Where did I say that? Stooping to strawman construction means conceding the point.

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

If the game looks boring, most people won't bother with it.

If the game looks woke, most people won't bother with it either, and right now that's more easy to notice for people, especially in screenshots.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Originally posted by VoiD:

Right now millions of people are paying to have an early access of PoE2 too

Which further proves my point that most consumers are unprincipled. PoE is an always-online, MTX-laden mobile game moonlighting as an ARPG, which is damaging the genre.
ARPGs have no business being online only or having MTX. They aren't MMOs or CoD.

Meanwhile, Greedy Greedy Games has a track record. They sold "supporter packs" long after the game was still in early development and needed support, only to then go on to shoehorn lootboxes into the game.

No, it proves my point, consumers are very principled, and none of what you listed even matters to gamers.

EA games was called out for a decade for doing worse... And they were still swimming in money.

Concord goes woke and goes bankrupt, just like flintlock, capes, homeworld 3, DA veilguard, Hyenas and many others, even the bait & switch sequels have sold far less than predictions have shown and some of their "success" stories, from times when the consumers were less aware, like Alan Wake 2 STILL haven't made back their dev costs.

Granted, only a small percentage of players (still far larger than the 600 people supporting it, seeing in concord) are paying enough attention to get truly repulsed by the ideology behind the destruction of the entire industry, but the regular folks don't need to know anything about it to figure out a disgusting character isn't going to make a game sell, they don't need to be ideologically aware to know that ugly = no thanks, that repulsive repulses customers, and attractive attracts customers, it's just that simple, and commercials have known this for decades.

If you still want to doubt it then let's wait and see what happens to other games that have signaled their demise like Avowed & South of Midnight, do you honestly think they are going to attract any customers?

AC Shadows is probably going to sell for being AC and people are willing to give it a chance, but I don't think it will recover it's dev costs, it's going to be widely hated as well.

tl;dr A very significant portion of gamers absolutely HATE everything this ideology stands for, while the remaining normal players are simply repulsed by it and drift away naturally for no political reason. Let's not forget the normies have stopped consuming movies, tv shows and comics for the exact same reason, nobody wants any of this.

[IndianaJones]

That's what you get when you overdo WOKE stuff.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Lazarus:

Originally posted by VoiD:

Even if it was (it wasn't) it would still have gotten a big boost from player numbers, all apealing trash games can get a giant launch day, and then quickly lose players over time.

Concord never even had a big launch day, the gameplay did not matter, at all, if nobody was even willing to play it and see how it looked like.

Lost Ark is a good example of a beautiful game (even though AGS ruined several parts of it's beauty) that was apealing to players.... But the gameplay past the campaign was utter trash. See how their graphs compare, millions were interested in LA, and millions have left, nobody was interested in concord.

Edit: In fact, here you go, 600 players peak
https://steamdb.info/app/2443720/charts/#max
vs
https://steamdb.info/app/1599340/charts/
1.3m peak, this is what I'm talking about.

How the heck does a triple A game that is free to try out only reached about 600 max players? If I knew nothing about that games politics I think I would have atleast tried it out, did Sony not market the game well?

Concord had one of the biggest budgets in gaming history, and marketing costs are very often proportional to dev costs, so it's possible it had one of the most expensive marketing campaigns in gaming history as well.

To make things worse, they've refunded all of the players and closed the servers shortly after release, so they made back close to zero dollars.

It's no exageration to say it was the worst flop in gaming industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-5DmFm2f3A

[Bloodwyrm Wildheart]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Which further proves my point that most consumers are unprincipled. PoE is an always-online, MTX-laden mobile game moonlighting as an ARPG, which is damaging the genre.
ARPGs have no business being online only or having MTX. They aren't MMOs or CoD.

Meanwhile, Greedy Greedy Games has a track record. They sold "supporter packs" long after the game was still in early development and needed support, only to then go on to shoehorn lootboxes into the game.

No, it proves my point, consumers are very principled, and none of what you listed even matters to gamers.

Wrong, bud. MTX, lootboxes, and always-online are frowned upon by gamers, and for good reason.
Lootboxes are literal gambling which, might I remind children have access to, and this is what got them banned in several countries.
The forced online requirement along with RMAH is what crippled not only the hype / interest in Diablo 3 (the first offender of always-online in ARPGs), but also the playerbase. People HATED it, and I was there for it.
Microtransactions are and always be a hot topic in gaming because they are disliked.

PoE ticks all the boxes and that is why it is garbage on principle.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Originally posted by VoiD:

No, it proves my point, consumers are very principled, and none of what you listed even matters to gamers.

Wrong, bud. MTX, lootboxes, and always-online are frowned upon by gamers, and for good reason. Lootboxes are literal gambling which, might I remind children have access to, and this is what got them banned in several countries.
The online requirement along with RMAH is what crippled not only the hype / interest in Diablo 3 (the first offender of always-online in ARPGs), but also the playerbase. People HATED it, and I was there for it.
Microtransactions are and always be a hot topic in gaming because they are disliked.

That's my point, and none of this matters, games never sold less because of any of it.

Add a bit of bad ideology and you end up killing IPs, studios, comics, movies, TV shows, everything, it's the touch of death.

Edit: Even Anime can't survive this ideology https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kKq2MG8iA

[Squidbeats]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Wrong, bud. MTX, lootboxes, and always-online are frowned upon by gamers, and for good reason. Lootboxes are literal gambling which, might I remind children have access to, and this is what got them banned in several countries.
The online requirement along with RMAH is what crippled not only the hype / interest in Diablo 3 (the first offender of always-online in ARPGs), but also the playerbase. People HATED it, and I was there for it.
Microtransactions are and always be a hot topic in gaming because they are disliked.

That's my point, and none of this matters, games never sold less because of any of it.

Add a bit of ideology and you end up killing IPs, studios, comics, movies, TV shows, everything, it's the touch of death.

The sweet baby death touch

[Bloodwyrm Wildheart]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Wrong, bud. MTX, lootboxes, and always-online are frowned upon by gamers, and for good reason. Lootboxes are literal gambling which, might I remind children have access to, and this is what got them banned in several countries.
The online requirement along with RMAH is what crippled not only the hype / interest in Diablo 3 (the first offender of always-online in ARPGs), but also the playerbase. People HATED it, and I was there for it.
Microtransactions are and always be a hot topic in gaming because they are disliked.

That's my point, and none of this matters, games never sold less because of any of it.

And now you're contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by VoiD:

consumers are very principled

Originally posted by VoiD:

games never sold less because of any of it.

Pick one.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Bloodwyrm Wildheart:

Originally posted by VoiD:

That's my point, and none of this matters, games never sold less because of any of it.

And now you're contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by VoiD:

consumers are very principled

Originally posted by VoiD:

games never sold less because of any of it.

Pick one.

The point stands that you're just pretending this is an issue, it was never an issue.

We're discussing the true issue people care about here, and that issue consistently makes games sell poorly, and studios go bankrupt.

This means your entire position was flawed from the start and your world view needs to be adjusted.

Hell, Gacha games which are worse than everything you've just listed also consistently go both in the polar opposite direction of this ideology and towards the extreme of what you're complaining about, yet they can sell millions with the lowest effort possible, by creating PNG skins, doesn't that tell you anything about how wrong your preconceptions were?

[Bloodwyrm Wildheart]

Originally posted by VoiD:

The point stands that you're just pretending this is an issue, it was never an issue.

No, it's a persistent issue.
Either they're principled, or they'll gobble up games with MTX and lootboxes.
Pick one.

Originally posted by VoiD:

Hell, Gacha games which are worse than everything you've just listed also consistently go both in the polar opposite direction of this ideology and towards the extreme of what you're complaining about, yet they can sell millions with the lowest effort possible, by creating PNG skins, doesn't that tell you anything about how wrong your preconceptions were?

No, it tells me that most consumers are unprincipled, which is the point I've been making all along.
This might come as a surprise, but you can make a game without DEI and without MTX / lootboxes / gambling / forced online. Complacency is what got us here.