What, EXACTLY, constitutes a "smurf"?

[Steve]

The idea's simple enough on its surface. No one wants experienced players farming the bronze pool. But what, exactly, constitutes a "smurf"? How do you determine that? One player's just head-and-shoulders above everyone else on a team? Do you report them for being good once? How many games in a row do they have to be "that much better" to get a report?

It's important to ask these kinds of questions if you want to mount a defense against whatever a "smurf" is. You have to define your enemy before you can defeat them.

So, what exactly constitutes a "smurf"?

[Krankheit]

We should probably consult Papa Smurf. He'll know!

[Sonrangeri]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sonrangeri:

Phone number verification to play Ranked would be good idea to begin. Sharing phone number, on your let's say, beginner Bronze3 account with your GM+ account, game would your highest rank out of all accounts, to make matchmaking instead of letting you stomp. One thing I'd also suggest is small fee in store to play ranked. It doesn't have to be more than 1-2€ max. to prevent majority of smurfs.

What are you on about? That doesn't answer the other poster's definition at all.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

How you gonna enforce that? XD

This. How do you tell who is a "high elo player that is getting rolled in their high elo lobbies so they make a new account to" blah blah etc. How do you police for that? How do other players report this? WHEN do they report this? Every time a new player loses a game, every time a low level player crosses a certain statistical threshold. after a new player crosses whatever threshold a certain number of times -- how do you enforce this?

At what point does a "good player" become a "smurf"?

My response was on your "how to enforce". Why would anyone (other than smurfs) be against to have actual competitive integrity. Having small things you have to do BEFORE joining ranked, like phone number verification, or if people are afraid of sharing phone number, extremely small amount of real money in store to unlock ranked? As I said, number wouldn't have to be big, as most of smurfs (which I will refer as cheaters from now on, as fooling matchmaking and ranking system is cheating in mind). These cheaters are different from your legitimate good players, who wouldn't just start new account because their skill caught up with their rank. Legitimate good player strives to improve themselves all the time.

[Steve]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sonrangeri:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

What are you on about? That doesn't answer the other poster's definition at all.



This. How do you tell who is a "high elo player that is getting rolled in their high elo lobbies so they make a new account to" blah blah etc. How do you police for that? How do other players report this? WHEN do they report this? Every time a new player loses a game, every time a low level player crosses a certain statistical threshold. after a new player crosses whatever threshold a certain number of times -- how do you enforce this?

At what point does a "good player" become a "smurf"?

My response was on your "how to enforce". Why would anyone (other than smurfs) be against to have actual competitive integrity. Having small things you have to do BEFORE joining ranked, like phone number verification, or if people are afraid of sharing phone number, extremely small amount of real money in store to unlock ranked? As I said, number wouldn't have to be big, as most of smurfs (which I will refer as cheaters from now on, as fooling matchmaking and ranking system is cheating in mind). These cheaters are different from your legitimate good players, who wouldn't just start new account because their skill caught up with their rank. Legitimate good player strives to improve themselves all the time.

That's all well and good, but the topic of this thread is how to precisely determine what a smurf is for enforcement purposes. Where are the lines? When is a smurf a smurf? What level do they have to be to be considered a smurf? What stats do they have to produce, and for how many matches, before a smurf can be called a smurf?

[Magatsu Cloud]

Ursprungligen skrivet av DaddyEcho69:

Smurf is someone with some skill intentionally playing against less skilled players to feel better about themselves because they cant win against someone at their skill level.

This basically. People do it in all games with ranking. Usually making multiple accounts in the process.

[Steve]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Magatsu Cloud:

Ursprungligen skrivet av DaddyEcho69:

Smurf is someone with some skill intentionally playing against less skilled players to feel better about themselves because they cant win against someone at their skill level.

This basically. People do it in all games with ranking. Usually making multiple accounts in the process.

That much has been covered, as well as what we'd like to happen to smurfs. So we got the first and the third parts of a three-part process.

We're missing the middle part -- how to actually determine who the smurfs are.

We know what they are, we know why they do what they do. We don't have a reliable means of determining who they are, outside of statistical performance that is consistently head and shoulders above their peers.

So, at what point does a player stop being considered "good" and start being considered a "smurf"? How many kills does a smurf need to have to be a smurf? How much damage or healing? Can a tank be a smurf?

[DancesWithCats]

basically it's the same logic that males call themselves trans and pretend to be women and then compete in women's leagues.

[Basarab Laiota]

its someone high-ranked who makes a new account to poop on low-rank players

[Roland]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

The idea's simple enough on its surface. No one wants experienced players farming the bronze pool. But what, exactly, constitutes a "smurf"? How do you determine that? One player's just head-and-shoulders above everyone else on a team? Do you report them for being good once? How many games in a row do they have to be "that much better" to get a report?

It's important to ask these kinds of questions if you want to mount a defense against whatever a "smurf" is. You have to define your enemy before you can defeat them.

So, what exactly constitutes a "smurf"?

Imo, it's anyone with a second account.

Using a different account because you don't want to affect your stats on your main makes you a little ♥♥♥♥♥, idgaf who you are, you're a ♥♥♥♥♥ if you use a second account to manipulate your stats on your first.

And using an alt account "to play with friends in Ranked" just means you're going to carry your friends and get them into Ranks they obviously do not deserve to be in, which is harmful to Ranked as a whole and has a knock-on effect since the people that are supposed to be there later team up with those that aren't and get dragged down for it.

tl;dr: you're a lil ♥♥♥♥♥ if you are afraid to have your stats actually represent your skill, and you're hurting the community by using an alt "to play with friends" and both are smurfing.

[Steve]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Basarab Laiota:

its someone high-ranked who makes a new account to poop on low-rank players

Yeah. WE GET THAT. We get the why, we get the how, but you gotta nail down the WHO part before anything can be done about it! XD

So, how do we tell which new accounts are smurfs and which aren't, say, people switching from one platform to another since there's no cross-progression? Where are the statistical lines, so that A) people can report that kind of thing to enforcement and B) enforcement has concrete metrics they can use to justify enforcement action?

We got the first and third parts of the plan. We need the second part. Otherwise, we might as well be talking about underpants gnomes because we will have an underpants gnome plan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfgAK_afMII

[Steve]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Roland:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

The idea's simple enough on its surface. No one wants experienced players farming the bronze pool. But what, exactly, constitutes a "smurf"? How do you determine that? One player's just head-and-shoulders above everyone else on a team? Do you report them for being good once? How many games in a row do they have to be "that much better" to get a report?

It's important to ask these kinds of questions if you want to mount a defense against whatever a "smurf" is. You have to define your enemy before you can defeat them.

So, what exactly constitutes a "smurf"?

Imo, it's anyone with a second account.

How are you going to enforce "one account per person" on PC? Everything's too easy to spoof.

[Basarab Laiota]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

We get the why, we get the how, but you gotta nail down the WHO part before anything can be done about it!

you can't, its a free to play game. anyone can do it. also why does anything need to be done about it? i like playing against better players because then i improve unless if they are playing spiderman, i don't learn anything from getting 1-shot

[j.yellow28]

You can determine who a smurf is usally by there skill level in Comp. They play like a Gm or diamond for instance they have tendencys and positioning of those skill levels But they have a level 10 account and dominate then they are more less a smuf. no 100% way to tell unless u have there info and wot not but u can make a good asumption on there playstile.

U cant ever 100% enforce the issue tho of making new accounts couse u can spoof such stuff but it is difficult.
Personally i would have it set to a Phone number for PC or some kind of external account that has to be linked to somthing hard to spoof. such if they made the marvel accounts linked to somthing hard to spoof. tho phone number would be easiest and would stop a lagre number of people making new accounts due to the hassel they have to go threw to get another one. Since ATM its just make a new account easy.

[j.yellow28]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Roland:

Imo, it's anyone with a second account.

How are you going to enforce "one account per person" on PC? Everything's too easy to spoof.

the point would be to make it harder. Yes they can spoof it but alot of people arnt gonna put in effort to spoof it. So it would eliminate a large portion of them atm. U can never 100% get rid of Smurfs but u can midigate them

[Roland]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Roland:

Imo, it's anyone with a second account.

How are you going to enforce "one account per person" on PC? Everything's too easy to spoof.

That is a different conversation my friend.

You asked what constitutes smurfing, not "how do we solve it". Had the topic been the latter I would not have replied, because I do not have any good ideas for that.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Basarab Laiota:

unless if they are playing spiderman, i don't learn anything from getting 1-shot

Spider-man can't "1-shot" it's a 4-5 hit combo and the answer is to hit your escape/defensive button after the uppercut. (generally)
Characters like Hela and Bucky kill in far fewer hits than Spidey.

[Steve]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Roland:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Steve:

How are you going to enforce "one account per person" on PC? Everything's too easy to spoof.

That is a different conversation my friend. :crtstressed:

You asked what constitutes smurfing, not "how do we solve it". Had the topic been the latter I would not have replied, because I do not have any good ideas for that.

If you say "smurfing is anyone who has a second account" then you at LEAST have to determine who has more than one account.