Fun is off the menu in 1.5

[Twitch | Made_of_Magic]

I had fun in update .5 and update 1, but update 1.5 comes around, nerfing supports while buffing the characters made to kill the supports. It's a lost cause. Really sad to see the over-correction causing already overpowered characters to get buffed all because of a toxic dps based community.

[Canyon]

Skill issue

[YourFreeUseHairbrush]

pantsgrab issue

[Twitch | Made_of_Magic]

Thank you both for providing real time examples. Your contributions have been noted.

[Mitrovarr]

I mean, they nerfed some of them. Rocket, Jeff, and Mantis are the same, and Warlock is better.

[j.yellow28]

played a few comp matches didnt feel too much of a change other then the Ults were staggered a bit more so it took longer for Supports have a Ult Fight.

As a support main i dont feel the issue hugely as Ult still comes fast enuf to use as well as just needing to be exposed to the new Flyer DPS.

Care to explain what exactly making u unhappy of this change specificly? i dont think DPS got HUGE buffs? Biggest Nurf to any support was C&D not getting stacking anymore.

[Phantom Limb]

What are you even talking about? People still play triple support and slogging every second game after 1.5 patch. The devs haven't nerfed them enough and more adjustments are needed.

[Twitch | Made_of_Magic]

Originally posted by j.yellow28:

played a few comp matches didnt feel too much of a change other then the Ults were staggered a bit more so it took longer for Supports have a Ult Fight.

As a support main i dont feel the issue hugely as Ult still comes fast enuf to use as well as just needing to be exposed to the new Flyer DPS.

Care to explain what exactly making u unhappy of this change specificly? i dont think DPS got HUGE buffs? Biggest Nurf to any support was C&D not getting stacking anymore.

I can barely survive for 2 seconds as a support now, I'm used to being focused by BP, Psylocke, etc. But I could usually either hold my own or at least survive half the time. Now the moment I am out of spawn I am pummelled, it's not even a case of skill at this point. I am physically unable to heal anyone or myself by the time that my healthbar and fun are completely depleted. Maybe the nerfs are not to blame, but the buffs definitely are.

The change happened at the same time as the update. I'm in no way the most skilled player, but at least I was allowed to have fun before.

[Twitch | Made_of_Magic]

Also, I'm not even talking about losing matches. I have been winning matches and not having fun.

[Hawthorn]

*clutches pearls* - Oh my .. how vexing .. I need a quick lie down!

[melonLord]

Originally posted by Twitch | Made_of_Magic:

Originally posted by j.yellow28:

played a few comp matches didnt feel too much of a change other then the Ults were staggered a bit more so it took longer for Supports have a Ult Fight.

As a support main i dont feel the issue hugely as Ult still comes fast enuf to use as well as just needing to be exposed to the new Flyer DPS.

Care to explain what exactly making u unhappy of this change specificly? i dont think DPS got HUGE buffs? Biggest Nurf to any support was C&D not getting stacking anymore.

I can barely survive for 2 seconds as a support now, I'm used to being focused by BP, Psylocke, etc. But I could usually either hold my own or at least survive half the time. Now the moment I am out of spawn I am pummelled, it's not even a case of skill at this point. I am physically unable to heal anyone or myself by the time that my healthbar and fun are completely depleted. Maybe the nerfs are not to blame, but the buffs definitely are.

The change happened at the same time as the update. I'm in no way the most skilled player, but at least I was allowed to have fun before.

What recent buffs would possibly even have that effect? Like most of em were pretty minor and Iron Fist even got NERFED against supports lol

[Twitch | Made_of_Magic]

Originally posted by melonLord:

Originally posted by Twitch | Made_of_Magic:

I can barely survive for 2 seconds as a support now, I'm used to being focused by BP, Psylocke, etc. But I could usually either hold my own or at least survive half the time. Now the moment I am out of spawn I am pummelled, it's not even a case of skill at this point. I am physically unable to heal anyone or myself by the time that my healthbar and fun are completely depleted. Maybe the nerfs are not to blame, but the buffs definitely are.

The change happened at the same time as the update. I'm in no way the most skilled player, but at least I was allowed to have fun before.

What recent buffs would possibly even have that effect? Like most of em were pretty minor and Iron Fist even got NERFED against supports lol

Honestly, you are completely right, I can not find a single thing that I can quote that could explain the change. I don't remember getting brain damage in the past 24 hours, yet I feel like I've taken a sledgehammer to both heads playing this in patch 1.5.

[Hawthorn]

Originally posted by Twitch | Made_of_Magic:

Originally posted by melonLord:

What recent buffs would possibly even have that effect? Like most of em were pretty minor and Iron Fist even got NERFED against supports lol

Honestly, you are completely right, I can not find a single thing that I can quote that could explain the change. I don't remember getting brain damage in the past 24 hours, yet I feel like I've taken a sledgehammer to both heads playing this in patch 1.5.

I can explain this. More experienced players came back to check new characters, they changed the rankings a bit so now you are getting matched with more serious players.

There is a huge skill level between an OK player and a good player. If you are in a random team and you don't have good role cohesion .. a single good player and dominate.

[Echorion]

Originally posted by Twitch | Made_of_Magic:

I had fun in update .5 and update 1, but update 1.5 comes around, nerfing supports while buffing the characters made to kill the supports. It's a lost cause. Really sad to see the over-correction causing already overpowered characters to get buffed all because of a toxic dps based community.

Supports were stronger and more influential on the game- and they barely even nerfed them really so much as adjusted ults; which was where they were the most OP.

8-12 seconds of invulnerability (or potentially longer) is REALLY hard to top.

The DPS they buffed were considered not as good as other DPS were....

Hence here we are. Seems all reasonable tbh; honestly it's showing they know what they are doing.

[RhodosGuard]

I think it's really funny when supports go "I cant win duels against duelists anymore"
yes. That is correct, and completely normal behavior, or at least it should be, because duelists are supposed to excell at duelling.

The problem that both Overwatch (oh no I've mentioned the forbidden game) and MR have, is that they were/are allergic to making supports vulnerable. In OW it started when each Support needed to have feet in multiple roles.
Moira had to be half DPS and Half Support, Brigitte needed to be half Tank Half Support. And while Zen always was Half DPS and Half Support, they doubled down on his personal defense.

This led and/or will lead to a problem:
Supports outscale DPS. Which I think is stupid.

Supports/Strategists, whatever you call them, are supposed to be co-dependent. Each role should be co-dependent to a certain degree.
Tanks are supposed to take space so DPS can act without being pressured, DPS and Tank are supposed to peel for supports, and supports are supposed to make sure both roles can perform, by either keeping them healed or providing a different utility.

The idea that Supports need to able to win against duelists is born from a problem with how people play the game, especially with randoms, where they mostly will not do any of the above, so supports usually get the short end of the stick.
But in theory, nothing is wrong with supports losing against duelists. If your team fails to realize why you cant be in fights, that is a fault with your team, not with the balance of the game.

[glaphen]

Imagine complaining as supports against dive, every single support counters dive as is in a 1 vs 1, and it's only a 1 vs 1 if the other healer is trash.
Rocket does 385 headshot DPS, higher than any dive in the game, and has more mobility than any dive, and can heal his allies and self during the fight with you.
Jeff is just unkillable to dive unless he doesn't know how to play, and infact he can instead be the dive.
Luna can freeze into 1 free headshot/bodyshot and 2 free headshots for over 290 damage, not much can survive that, and she still has 9.6 movement speed and 30 HPS.
Mantis can do the same but even easier not even needing the aim part and higher damage.
Adam can soul bond and become immortal for 6 seconds, otherwise he has up to 2 instant heals to keep himself alive, while he does over 240 DPS.
Cloak and Dagger can just place down bubble to be immortal to most dive then auto aim them down for 96 DPS, if needed you have 2 seconds invincibility to flee.
Loki can teleport up to 30 meters, does 157 AoE DPS, and can place the rune down for 5 seconds of immortality, and most dive can't even break the rune any good and even if they can you have 2 other clones runes to use, and even if you lose all of that you can still stealth forever at any time.
Invisible Woman can do stand next to her shield to heal 50 a second and block attacks while doing 115 DPS and a 55 burst pull when they try to flee, and you can stealth at any time.
Supports losing to dive is a skill issue in a 1 vs 1, and it shouldn't be one.