Marvel Rivals LIES to you. EOMM and unfair player retention strategy.

[SuYIFFsidal.]

Before you play Marvel Rivals and if you have a plan to play the game competitively, there is something important to know about games like these.

This game will use EOMM (Engagement Optimised Matchmaking) along with other games. What this is, is a snarky way to ambiently control your matches. It is a system that is active on the background, that, by brute force, affects your matches in order for you to lose or win a number of matches. This is a player retention system designed to give an illusion to poorly performing players that they are doing well by feeding them victory, while bringing down the players that play the game well by matching them with poorly performing teammates or manipulating the match outcome some other way. Sometimes it comes down to small details that players usually tend to miss. The system’s algorithm is set up in a way that «believes» that a player who performs well won’t be against losing a few matches that can help retain weaker players in the game because such a player is a tryhard who will play the game anyway no matter what. It controls the matchmaking and the gameplay itself, rigs it to manipulate players’ emotions.

The reason why Marvel Rivals is no different in that regard is because it follows modern trends not only through gameplay, but through matchmaking algorithms. There was a scandal and developers came clean that EOMM exists in their game. Here’s a NetEase document that explains the nature of EOMM:

https://nos.netease.com/mg-file/mg/neteasegamecampus/art_works/20200812/202008122020238605.pdf

That makes the competitive in videogames play out like a casino. The only one that’s truly winning is the actual studio behind the game, not the players. Players are lied to, used to the advantage of corporations. This is a serious problem where studios striving to gain profit by any means necessary are playing with players’ trust because to them, consumers are nothing but resources to them. Turning a blind eye to those practices can prove to be detrimental to gaming as a whole. There are players dedicating their time to study the game, to understand all the tactics, only for those efforts to be nullified by the studio in charge of the game in favor of player retention. This is business we are talking about and business is many times volatile and unethical. The best course of action is to call out the developers on those things and play other games, however, hype manipulation and other ways to lie to players in Marvel Rivals are at play to keep those players in the game for as long as possible, to lure them into another «honeymoon» period hyped up by paid livestreamers game and most will not be able to resist. Players are in for a hard lesson. While there is no excuse to this kind of actions from the gaming studios, there is a crisis going on in the world at the time of writing, heavy worldwide inflation and studios are robbing their own consumers extra to try and fix their own situations. However, with those giant chinese game corporations which NetEase is, they have enough money to fund their projects for a while before a more severe macro-level crisis hits. Unless gamers collectively say no to volatile business practices, the EOMM issue and many other potential issues are likely to persist. Not only will the game lure players into microntransactions, but personal data of players is also always at risk with this kind of studios, as information is also being sold and controlled politically and not only. Big studios are only exploiting their consumers for more money. While the game is free, microtransactions and other bonuses won’t be.

Do not be surprised if you lose too much and are experiencing difficulties.

[badger vortex]

BigCatRob eredeti hozzászólása:

If you are worried about a sense of agency in a casual gamemode, you might have bigger problems going on.

you think it's okay to have a game mode change by itself with no player input then? that's a pretty hot take

would you also not mind if a game randomly changed difficulty modes as you were playing it?

[Kalgert]

MiseRawRble. eredeti hozzászólása:

aaww. but yea if it's fine for marvel rivals to lie to you like OP established and it being good as soon as you get fun it means you are ok with developers' lies.

What has the game lied to me about?

Looking from the outside in, I have no idea what on Earth the OP is even trying to talk about, let alone how it has any effect on me. That there is a system in place that arbitrarily pairs me with/against people in such a way that will make me win or lose on the whim of the matchmaker?

I play Quick Match. That junk doesn't matter to me.

[BigCatRob]

badger vortex eredeti hozzászólása:

BigCatRob eredeti hozzászólása:

If you are worried about a sense of agency in a casual gamemode, you might have bigger problems going on.

you think it's okay to have a game mode change by itself with no player input then? that's a pretty hot take

would you also not mind if a game randomly changed difficulty modes as you were playing it?

It's a casual mode. Again if you are THAT worried about agency in a casual setting, you may need to address some things about yourself. I get people have insecurities but christ dude, take your Ls, accept the game throwing you a bone, and keep moving forward. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games to play out there or you could simply play Comp and not worry about bots at all.

[badger vortex]

BigCatRob eredeti hozzászólása:

It's a casual mode. Again if you are THAT worried about agency in a casual setting, you may need to address some things about yourself. I get people have insecurities but christ dude, take your Ls, accept the game throwing you a bone, and keep moving forward. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games to play out there or you could simply play Comp and not worry about bots at all.

the game isn't "throwing me a bone" it's wasting my time for losing a few games. i prefer not to play competitive because the team comps are less varied there, yeah you get wild comps in qp that are unwinnable garbage but that's fine i go into the mode expecting that as part of the package,

i do not expect to be facing any ai because i chose to play a PVP game mode, i don't know why this is so hard for you to understand, i chose a pvp game mode but am facing bots and it's annoying, would you like that to happen in competitive too? i expect not

[MiseRawRble.]

BigCatRob eredeti hozzászólása:

badger vortex eredeti hozzászólása:

you think it's okay to have a game mode change by itself with no player input then? that's a pretty hot take

would you also not mind if a game randomly changed difficulty modes as you were playing it?

It's a casual mode. Again if you are THAT worried about agency in a casual setting, you may need to address some things about yourself. I get people have insecurities but christ dude, take your Ls, accept the game throwing you a bone, and keep moving forward. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games to play out there or you could simply play Comp and not worry about bots at all.

marvel rivals throws u a bone and u like it. it does it to make it easier and for u to chew it so u defend it cuz the game lies to you to make you feel like u play well with this player retention thing. u been lied to and programmed a certain way by the system and the game.

[rock]

OP is misleading. EOMM doesn't make you lose, or win, any number of matches. If you play exceptionally well, you will win. You can look at top 500 histories on their road to GM+. Many of them don't lose at all until they climb into high GM+.

EOMM does sometimes give you teammates who are overall worse in skill level than you. And sometimes it gives you teammates who are overall better, depending on your win/loss ratio. The intention is to have more exciting matches by selecting teams of slightly uneven skill level. If your games are theoretically close, win or lose, it's more exciting and will lead you to playing the game more.

Here's an example: Let's say you won a couple of games, and the system selects a team with a predicted 49 to 51% win ratio favorable to the enemy. If you are a very good player, the system expects you to perform well compared to your teammates, and the enemy team will also have one good player like yourself. So if you under-perform that game compared to the enemy team's ace, you are likely to lose. But if you perform better than expected, or your team simply works well together, you are more likely to win. It's never a guarantee, as it's all based on probabilities.

This system is also responsible for picking players who have synergy with the heroes you play, so if you're a tank main, you'll get matched with DPS or support. It's not perfect, as it's never a true estimate of a fair outcome, but again, it doesn't make you lose.

[MiseRawRble.]

rock eredeti hozzászólása:

OP is misleading. EOMM doesn't make you lose, or win, any number of matches. If you play exceptionally well, you will win. You can look at top 500 histories on their road to GM+. Many of them don't lose at all until they climb into high GM+.

EOMM does sometimes give you teammates who are overall worse in skill level than you. And sometimes it gives you teammates who are overall better, depending on your win/loss ratio. The intention is to have more exciting matches by selecting teams of slightly uneven skill level. If your games are theoretically close, win or lose, it's more exciting and will lead you to playing the game more.

Here's an example: Let's say you won a couple of games, and the system selects a team with a predicted 49 to 51% win ratio favorable to the enemy. If you are a very good player, the system expects you to perform well compared to your teammates, and the enemy team will also have one good player like yourself. So if you under-perform that game compared to the enemy team's ace, you are likely to lose. But if you perform better than expected, or your team simply works well together, you are more likely to win. It's never a guarantee, as it's all based on probabilities.

This system is also responsible for picking players who have synergy with the heroes you play, so if you're a tank main, you'll get matched with DPS or support. It's not perfect, as it's never a true estimate of a fair outcome, but again, it doesn't make you lose.

EOMM is a system that programs the player and lies to them. it made you defend it because you liked the player retention system and how it feeds you fake victory with bots. it runs on the background and programs you slowly for you to accept that sotr of thing making u come up with fake examples and fake explanation for the system and how it is exciting. some people are resistant to that, people like OP so they don't fall surrendered to the EOMM. you, however, did surrender to EOMM.

[THAT Guy]

rock eredeti hozzászólása:

OP is misleading. EOMM doesn't make you lose, or win, any number of matches. If you play exceptionally well, you will win. You can look at top 500 histories on their road to GM+. Many of them don't lose at all until they climb into high GM+.

EOMM does sometimes give you teammates who are overall worse in skill level than you. And sometimes it gives you teammates who are overall better, depending on your win/loss ratio. The intention is to have more exciting matches by selecting teams of slightly uneven skill level. If your games are theoretically close, win or lose, it's more exciting and will lead you to playing the game more.

Here's an example: Let's say you won a couple of games, and the system selects a team with a predicted 49 to 51% win ratio favorable to the enemy. If you are a very good player, the system expects you to perform well compared to your teammates, and the enemy team will also have one good player like yourself. So if you under-perform that game compared to the enemy team's ace, you are likely to lose. But if you perform better than expected, or your team simply works well together, you are more likely to win. It's never a guarantee, as it's all based on probabilities.

This system is also responsible for picking players who have synergy with the heroes you play, so if you're a tank main, you'll get matched with DPS or support. It's not perfect, as it's never a true estimate of a fair outcome, but again, it doesn't make you lose.

No op misunderstands eomm, as do most people on both sides of the argument..

Its not "rigged" but it absolutely shows bias in how it builds matches. Bias is something that absolutely should not exist in any type of matchmaking system.

Any developer who uses eomm would much rather have an actual pay 2 win matchmaking system, instead of EOMM, but they know there's a 0% chance they could get away with using a pay 2 win system, eomm is just the next best thing they know they can get away with.

The messed up thing about eomm when you really understand it is that it effectively rewards players for losing and playing poorly while punishing them for winning and playing well..

I've thrown so hard and so long, I went from seeing a lot of "forced losses" to seeing matches no matter how hard I throw I can't lose.

What I find saddest of all is how highly exploitable it is, and yet most gamers are to stupid to realize, much less take advantage of it.

If your half decent and know how to exploit eomm to cheat the ladder, high rank just becomes an easy grind fest. The more capable the player the less the grind

[BigCatRob]

MiseRawRble. eredeti hozzászólása:

BigCatRob eredeti hozzászólása:

It's a casual mode. Again if you are THAT worried about agency in a casual setting, you may need to address some things about yourself. I get people have insecurities but christ dude, take your Ls, accept the game throwing you a bone, and keep moving forward. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games to play out there or you could simply play Comp and not worry about bots at all.

marvel rivals throws u a bone and u like it. it does it to make it easier and for u to chew it so u defend it cuz the game lies to you to make you feel like u play well with this player retention thing. u been lied to and programmed a certain way by the system and the game.

I could not care less if I get a bot lobby in all honesty. Cause I don't care if I win or lose in general as long as I'm attempting what I consider to be my best. Not like these people who are insecure in a CASUAL mode of all things because "Oh noooo I'm being made to play with bots!1!". Say I'm defending all you want because I'm just here to play the game. Go ERP with Tighty or something since you're always in this guys discussions.

[MiseRawRble.]

THAT Guy eredeti hozzászólása:

rock eredeti hozzászólása:

OP is misleading. EOMM doesn't make you lose, or win, any number of matches. If you play exceptionally well, you will win. You can look at top 500 histories on their road to GM+. Many of them don't lose at all until they climb into high GM+.

EOMM does sometimes give you teammates who are overall worse in skill level than you. And sometimes it gives you teammates who are overall better, depending on your win/loss ratio. The intention is to have more exciting matches by selecting teams of slightly uneven skill level. If your games are theoretically close, win or lose, it's more exciting and will lead you to playing the game more.

Here's an example: Let's say you won a couple of games, and the system selects a team with a predicted 49 to 51% win ratio favorable to the enemy. If you are a very good player, the system expects you to perform well compared to your teammates, and the enemy team will also have one good player like yourself. So if you under-perform that game compared to the enemy team's ace, you are likely to lose. But if you perform better than expected, or your team simply works well together, you are more likely to win. It's never a guarantee, as it's all based on probabilities.

This system is also responsible for picking players who have synergy with the heroes you play, so if you're a tank main, you'll get matched with DPS or support. It's not perfect, as it's never a true estimate of a fair outcome, but again, it doesn't make you lose.

No op misunderstands eomm, as do most people on both sides of the argument..

Its not "rigged" but it absolutely shows bias in how it builds matches. Bias is something that absolutely should not exist in any type of matchmaking system.

Any developer who uses eomm would much rather have an actual pay 2 win matchmaking system, instead of EOMM, but they know there's a 0% chance they could get away with using a pay 2 win system, eomm is just the next best thing they know they can get away with.

The messed up thing about eomm when you really understand it is that it effectively rewards players for losing and playing poorly while punishing them for winning and playing well..

I've thrown so hard and so long, I went from seeing a lot of "forced losses" to seeing matches no matter how hard I throw I can't lose.

What I find saddest of all is how highly exploitable it is, and yet most gamers are to stupid to realize, much less take advantage of it.

If your half decent and know how to exploit eomm to cheat the ladder, high rank just becomes an easy grind fest. The more capable the player the less the grind

again, EOMM is a system that lies to the player and brainwashes the player to think that it doesn't exist by feeding him a fake victory or making him lose. you don't understand what this is because you are in control of EOMM system in marvel rivals that devs implemented. research shows us that.

[SpenserAtlas]

RedWithTheObviouslyLongUsername eredeti hozzászólása:

It's insane how people try to argue against or even deny this ♥♥♥♥

Cause it doesn't exist. Never in existence we have witnessed THOUSANDS to hundreds of thousands of matches being concluded by the way the studio wants it, it's not like they can make ranked people stronger per second, that's not how a program works in the slightest. EOMM doesn't exist and it's a cult for terrible players who genuinely suck at the game and making up a mass coping mechanism such as this, to justify their down-rate for this game.

It's just a game, enjoy it, I lose, I win, I don't care as long as I don't die too much to get kills.

[MiseRawRble.]

SpenserAtlas eredeti hozzászólása:

RedWithTheObviouslyLongUsername eredeti hozzászólása:

It's insane how people try to argue against or even deny this ♥♥♥♥

Cause it doesn't exist. Never in existence we have witnessed THOUSANDS to hundreds of thousands of matches being concluded by the way the studio wants it, it's not like they can make ranked people stronger per second, that's not how a program works in the slightest. EOMM doesn't exist and it's a cult for terrible players who genuinely suck at the game and making up a mass coping mechanism such as this, to justify their down-rate for this game.

It's just a game, enjoy it, I lose, I win, I don't care as long as I don't die too much to get kills.

why do u chew the bone of EOMM in marvel rivals that it throws you to feel better? because it tries to make the player feel better about their skill even if they aren't doing well by doing fake wins and fake matches.

[SpenserAtlas]

MiseRawRble. eredeti hozzászólása:

SpenserAtlas eredeti hozzászólása:

Cause it doesn't exist. Never in existence we have witnessed THOUSANDS to hundreds of thousands of matches being concluded by the way the studio wants it, it's not like they can make ranked people stronger per second, that's not how a program works in the slightest. EOMM doesn't exist and it's a cult for terrible players who genuinely suck at the game and making up a mass coping mechanism such as this, to justify their down-rate for this game.

It's just a game, enjoy it, I lose, I win, I don't care as long as I don't die too much to get kills.

why do u chew the bone of EOMM in marvel rivals that it throws you to feel better? because it tries to make the player feel better about their skill even if they aren't doing well by doing fake wins and fake matches.

XD
I always laugh at this type of bullcrap cause, what argument could you possibly give for so that the match is concluded EXACTLY the way the studio wants it? So you have 20 wins, and out of 20 wins, it's planned you have 1 loss, how does the studio make that happen? Do they give extra strength to your 6 human being opponents, or do they SOMEHOW program down syndrome into your teammates? What is a fake win or a fake loss? Quit the bullsh/t dude, EOMM doesn't exist and it won't help your lack of skill.

[THAT Guy]

MiseRawRble. eredeti hozzászólása:

? eredeti hozzászólása:

not enough players pick giddish

because of EOMM not enough players in marvel rivals.

Nah there's plenty of players, the problem is a large majority of them are to stupid to comprehend the game.

Eomm only drives away the smart/capable players..

It coddles the stupid ones.

This causes the population of good players to decline, and the population of bad ones to grow..

As this occurs the matchmaking becomes more and more dysfunctional, driving even more players away.

Eventually the matchmaking system self destructs to it. Though most developers kill the game before it reaches that point..

TF2 is a prime example of what an eomm system looks like once it's fully self destructed

[zopf76 ☭]

THAT Guy eredeti hozzászólása:

Nah there's plenty of players, the problem is a large majority of them are to stupid to comprehend the game.

Eomm only drives away the smart/capable players..

It coddles the stupid ones.

This causes the population of good players to decline, and the population of bad ones to grow..

As this occurs the matchmaking becomes more and more dysfunctional, driving even more players away.

...which will be fun, when only all the EOMM-Pro players are left.

THAT Guy eredeti hozzászólása:

Eventually the matchmaking system self destructs to it. Though most developers kill the game before it reaches that point..

"Marvel Rivals" is a pure Cash cow and will be discontinued anyway, when it no longer generates enough Revenue.