Magik should have been vanguard

[Poljanan]

She should have been a hybrid like peni parker who has 600+ hp and does moderate amounts of damage. Right now she is way too slow and have too low hp to survive long enough in a fire fight. It is also kinda silly that her ult doesn't even give her iframes or a shield because people can simply shoot her as she finishes transforming.
Shame because I really love her design but playing her is too rough especially if other players know what they're doing.

[76561199540158642]

i didn't like her skill kit much, she died almost instantly in a fight.

[New Breakfast]

Автор сообщения: mercureXI

Melee champs, overall, are badly designed imo.

The whole concept should be :

- ranged is safer but lower damage than melee
- melee needs to go in / survive the trip to close range city, but deal way better damage than ranged to compensate

In this game :

- ranged have WAY MORE damage than melee, simply because of their kits being able to headshot a ton of times in a row easily (hurtboxes are insane, for heatshots) + way more forgivable kits, where you can miss once or twice and it's still fine + great escape tools (see Wanda / Punisher / etc)
- melee have the same health pool (!?) but their movement options are on very long cooldowns AND double dip as damage tools (ex : Magik's dash), which is dumb, and not to mention that also spells doom if you ever miss that ability : your damage falls flat, AND now you can't escape either (genius idea !)

sounds like a melee player trying to make melee look bad. the game is ruined if we let you balance it.

[mercureXI]

Автор сообщения: New Breakfast

Автор сообщения: mercureXI

Melee champs, overall, are badly designed imo.

The whole concept should be :

- ranged is safer but lower damage than melee
- melee needs to go in / survive the trip to close range city, but deal way better damage than ranged to compensate

In this game :

- ranged have WAY MORE damage than melee, simply because of their kits being able to headshot a ton of times in a row easily (hurtboxes are insane, for heatshots) + way more forgivable kits, where you can miss once or twice and it's still fine + great escape tools (see Wanda / Punisher / etc)
- melee have the same health pool (!?) but their movement options are on very long cooldowns AND double dip as damage tools (ex : Magik's dash), which is dumb, and not to mention that also spells doom if you ever miss that ability : your damage falls flat, AND now you can't escape either (genius idea !)

sounds like a melee player trying to make melee look bad. the game is ruined if we let you balance it.

Yet another "huge value" post.

Thanks.

(Try and argue / post actual points, one day, because "lol no", doesn't work with adults, kid)

[Loukach]

Bro most of the flankers ( especially Spiderman & Magik ) i had to play against have been real menaces.. I know their kit and from the alpha/beta's i know they can be tricky to play but holy sh*t most of the time the guys i have to fight against are doing some crazy stuff, killing some of our team in 2 sec and getting away like it's nothing making our games awfull to play..

While when i try to play Magik, i manage to miss my hit on someone at 10cm of my face barely moving then i take a headshot in needle angle from the otp hawkeye from the otherside of the map who took the shot in the air.. and i wont even talk about my Spiderman tentatives..

I hate to say it because it feels like i'm not even playing at the same game than those guys but..it's.. it's a skill issue, i can't imagine a buffed version of those heroes in the hands of those crazy mf'rs..

[mercureXI]

Автор сообщения: Loukach

Bro most of the flankers ( especially Spiderman & Magik ) i had to play against have been real menaces.. I know their kit and from the alpha/beta's i know they can be tricky to play but holy sh*t most of the time the guys i have to fight against are doing some crazy stuff, killing some of our team in 2 sec and getting away like it's nothing making our games awfull to play..

While when i try to play Magik, i manage to miss my hit on someone at 10cm of my face barely moving then i take a headshot in needle angle from the otp hawkeye from the otherside of the map who took the shot in the air.. and i wont even talk about my Spiderman tentatives..

I hate to say it because it feels like i'm not even playing at the same game than those guys but..it's.. it's a skill issue, i can't imagine a buffed version of those heroes in the hands of those crazy mf'rs..

Spider-Man : of course, because his kit works fine, he has an insane go-in / go-out tool (web swinging), that you can't really do much about as a ranged champ, along with a team wipe ult that's VERY easy to use + ok ranged tools/cc + ways to flank easily since he can crawl around (magik needs her dash -cough again cough- to even manoeuvre around the map).

About the skill issue part : you just proved you're bad at handling Magik players AND at playing her, that didn't prove much here, no idea why you even posted this, actually.

Anyway : there's reason melee champs, most of them anyway, are lower tier on most tier lists for now, with Wolverine Magik BPanther being often bottom 5.

[DaddyEcho69]

Idk what you mean, she's one of the more OP characters in my experience.
I'm taking on entire teams with her and living to tell the tale. She has good offensive and evasive abilities. The only thing she's weak against is flying ranged characters.

[Loukach]

Автор сообщения: mercureXI

Spider-Man : of course, because his kit works fine, he has an insane go-in / go-out tool (web swinging), that you can't really do much about as a ranged champ, along with a team wipe ult that's VERY easy to use + ok ranged tools/cc + ways to flank easily since he can crawl around (magik needs her dash -cough again cough- to even manoeuvre around the map).

About the skill issue part : you just proved you're bad at handling Magik players AND at playing her, that didn't prove much here, no idea why you even posted this, actually.

Anyway : there's reason melee champs, most of them anyway, are lower tier on most tier lists for now, with Wolverine Magik BPanther being often bottom 5.

Dayum, feels like you took the skill issue part personnaly or you're just edgy on a daily basis lmao..
Well of course i proved i'm trash at handling GOOD Magik players.. that.. that was my point.. Which i don't have to fight often but when i do it hurts..
And yep skill issue because i DO KNOW i'm bad with this type of characters which may not be your case.. but at least i'm trying to play them from time to time and not just b*tching on this forum :')

While i can agree for Wolverine.. the reason melee champs are in the low tier is because they have a bigger skill cap than other heroes.. They're just not for everyone.. Go watch some dudes like Necros playing melee chars ( even Black Panther ) and tell me again they're bad chars..

[Poljanan]

Автор сообщения: Loukach

Автор сообщения: mercureXI

Spider-Man : of course, because his kit works fine, he has an insane go-in / go-out tool (web swinging), that you can't really do much about as a ranged champ, along with a team wipe ult that's VERY easy to use + ok ranged tools/cc + ways to flank easily since he can crawl around (magik needs her dash -cough again cough- to even manoeuvre around the map).

About the skill issue part : you just proved you're bad at handling Magik players AND at playing her, that didn't prove much here, no idea why you even posted this, actually.

Anyway : there's reason melee champs, most of them anyway, are lower tier on most tier lists for now, with Wolverine Magik BPanther being often bottom 5.

Dayum, feels like you took the skill issue part personnaly or you're just edgy on a daily basis lmao..
Well of course i proved i'm trash at handling GOOD Magik players.. that.. that was my point.. Which i don't have to fight often but when i do it hurts..
And yep skill issue because i DO KNOW i'm bad with this type of characters which may not be your case.. but at least i'm trying to play them from time to time and not just b*tching on this forum :')

While i can agree for Wolverine.. the reason melee champs are in the low tier is because they have a bigger skill cap than other heroes.. They're just not for everyone.. Go watch some dudes like Necros playing melee chars ( even Black Panther ) and tell me again they're bad chars..

Tbh, this is common in fighting games. Good players frequently play hard to play or outright joke characters just to prove they are good players, not necessarily that the character itself is good. If they were using actually good characters like hawkeye or moonknight, they would be soloing the entire enemy team easily.

Basically comparing movie jackie chan with a chair and some random thug with a gun. A chair is obviously an awful weapon compared to a gun, but jackie chan will still beat anyone with it.

[mercureXI]

Автор сообщения: Loukach

Автор сообщения: mercureXI

Spider-Man : of course, because his kit works fine, he has an insane go-in / go-out tool (web swinging), that you can't really do much about as a ranged champ, along with a team wipe ult that's VERY easy to use + ok ranged tools/cc + ways to flank easily since he can crawl around (magik needs her dash -cough again cough- to even manoeuvre around the map).

About the skill issue part : you just proved you're bad at handling Magik players AND at playing her, that didn't prove much here, no idea why you even posted this, actually.

Anyway : there's reason melee champs, most of them anyway, are lower tier on most tier lists for now, with Wolverine Magik BPanther being often bottom 5.

Dayum, feels like you took the skill issue part personnaly or you're just edgy on a daily basis lmao..
Well of course i proved i'm trash at handling GOOD Magik players.. that.. that was my point.. Which i don't have to fight often but when i do it hurts..
And yep skill issue because i DO KNOW i'm bad with this type of characters which may not be your case.. but at least i'm trying to play them from time to time and not just b*tching on this forum :')

While i can agree for Wolverine.. the reason melee champs are in the low tier is because they have a bigger skill cap than other heroes.. They're just not for everyone.. Go watch some dudes like Necros playing melee chars ( even Black Panther ) and tell me again they're bad chars..

No.

Tier lists don't compute "skill cap" and, on the contrary, compare characters based on kits and optimal gameplay scenarii.

Imagine if "hard to play" characters were ranked low tier in fighting games, even though they were insanely good ? LMAO

You'd know that if you had a clue.

Too bad you don't.

Also about the Necros part : what is that supposed to prove ? If a pro player / super good player, use a low tier / trash character against random Bronze players / day one people with no clue about what they're doing, with no comm, and stomps them, that means this character is not bad now ?
Unless you have a video of him using Magik against other players with the same skill as he has, using high/top tier characters, and stomping them, that has basically zero value.

Can you fail at logic even more than that ?

[mercureXI]

Watched a video of your "Necros" on Youtube, with Magik in thumbnail.

He played against random bronze players (huge shocker lol), hardly managed to land his E dash (see my previous posts about the paper-thin hitbox), tried to dash in > ult > engage and died in 2sec (see my previous posts about the ult issues and her passive), etc etc

Is that your metric for a showcase about Magik ?

LMAO

[Loukach]

Автор сообщения: mercureXI

No.

Tier lists don't compute "skill cap" and, on the contrary, compare characters based on kits and optimal gameplay scenarii.

Imagine if "hard to play" characters were ranked low tier in fighting games, even though they were insanely good ? LMAO

You'd know that if you had a clue.

Too bad you don't.

Also about the Necros part : what is that supposed to prove ? If a pro player / super good player, use a low tier / trash character against random Bronze players / day one people with no clue about what they're doing, with no comm, and stomps them, that means this character is not bad now ?
Unless you have a video of him using Magik against other players with the same skill as he has, using high/top tier characters, and stomping them, that has basically zero value.

Can you fail at logic even more than that ?

HOLY hell, bro while Poljanan was pleasant to read.. you just sound sour AF cause you can't facetank 1v6 the whole team with a flanker..

No sh*t you're getting your ass whooped if you're comparing a team based hero shooter to a fighting game.. Get some friends and coordinate with your team when to get to their back lane or strategist.. and you definitely don't need to have 50 dash to get good plays.. With that mindset you're in for a surprise in higher ranked games.. After reading this whole thread you just sound like you want your character to have every best aspect of other chars.. Imagine if we had the possibility to switch characters because someone is countering our char.. pure fantasy..

And for your video proof.. Necros is one of many and probably the most mainstream one.. there had been enough tournaments from the previous betas where there's been good flankers.. Look by yourself, seems you have too many time on your hands anw..

Автор сообщения: Poljanan

Basically comparing movie jackie chan with a chair and some random thug with a gun. A chair is obviously an awful weapon compared to a gun, but jackie chan will still beat anyone with it.

Loved your comparison to Jackie Chan, shame your post was monopolized by one sour edgelord =/

[mercureXI]

HOLY hell, bro while Poljanan was pleasant to read.. you just sound sour AF cause you can't facetank 1v6 the whole team with a flanker..

No sh*t you're getting your ass whooped if you're comparing a team based hero shooter to a fighting game.. Get some friends and coordinate with your team when to get to their back lane or strategist.. and you definitely don't need to have 50 dash to get good plays.. With that mindset you're in for a surprise in higher ranked games.. After reading this whole thread you just sound like you want your character to have every best aspect of other chars.. Imagine if we had the possibility to switch characters because someone is countering our char.. pure fantasy..

And for your video proof.. Necros is one of many and probably the most mainstream one.. there had been enough tournaments from the previous betas where there's been good flankers.. Look by yourself, seems you have too many time on your hands anw..

1) Never asked to 1v6, try again ?

2) Didn't compare a hero shooter to a fighting game, learn to read ?

3) Never asked for 50 dashes, only a 2nd charge or a reset on kill. Psylocke has 2 dashes, 1 stealth mode and her cooldowns get lowered when she uses her attacks. Doesn't seem unrealistic to ask for one or the other for Magik.
Especially since Psylocke's ult is auto-kill AoE, and Magik's is just an install (just a stat buff), meaning she needs her kit to be on point.

4) Imagine if your character is countered by 95% of the cast now : flyers / ranged / Iron Fist and other better melee champs / most healers (Jeff can pop a bubble to tank your combo then escape tool / Luna can cc you even if you E then run away faster than you / Mantis can cc you even if you land a E then escape while you sleep / etc).

Oh wait ! Must be WHY she is low tier / bottom 5 on most tier lists !

5) My video proof ? You're the one bringing YOUR streamer in the thread, and now, all of a sudden, he is not good enough ? Just bringing facts : he used Magik, whiffed her E on bronze fodder all day, and got almost instant kill trying to ult into dive. And all of this was what I pointed out, issues wise. Sorry.

6) Loved the Jackie Chan comparison shutting down your whole charade, and you trying to look pleased by it even though he destroyed you for free with it.

[Cpt Obvious]

Most people are just bad with melee. Most don't know how to quickly gage if they have advantage or disadvantage when they dive and often sustain the engage when they should immediately be backing out for another attempt. Most melee are pretty viable in this game.

[mercureXI]

Автор сообщения: Cpt Obvious

Most people are just bad with melee. Most don't know how to quickly gage if they have advantage or disadvantage when they dive and often sustain the engage when they should immediately be backing out for another attempt. Most melee are pretty viable in this game.

Again, the issue is being unable to "back out" of the attempt.

Even if you kill one target, if you used your E, you can't back out either.

Psylocke can :

- stealth mode in
- dash twice if needed (in or out)
- attacks lower her cds
- stealth mode out or dash out (twice)

Magik can :

- E dash once
- that's it

That's kinda why she is bottom tier. Anyone that played her, knows about that, just check any Reddit thread about her etc

[Fuji]

Skill issue, as a Magik main she has plenty of tools. You get free healing for hitting things, you have 2 charges on an i-frame dash, your E can be used as a mobility tool as well as CC.
You don't fight on the frontline you flank and kill low hp heroes. Frankly I wish she was a vanguard as well because I prefer tank but it's perfectly fine.