The Dive Meta Is Becoming Stronger, But Let's Nerf Adam And Loki. Huh?

[DorkSparce]

I don't get this nerf, as a support main it's infuriating having to deal with so much dive. Namor gets a massive team up buff which already doesn't help his ban rate. Mr. Fantastic and Wanda aren't picked as often who are good at countering dive heroes and just overall having to get matched with teams who forget to help their supports when we're constantly being dived from the likes of Captain, Black Panther, Spiderman, Psy and now the new triple tank meta with Emma, Hulk and Mag ( getting bumped 9 divs in comp is forcing me to deal with this new meta ).

Of all the dive heroes, captain america is quite possibly the worst one to deal with.

But let's nerf two healers instead, one of which has no form of escape or stun to try and deal with the dive.

[glaphen]

Strategists already counter dive in a 1 vs 1, and it shouldn't be one, if you are dying to Captain America, get your other damn strategist to heal you, boosted trash are too terrible at the game to heal each other to nullify all dive automatically, because none of them can kill through healing, most of them can't even kill through self healing.

It is not a dive META, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ divers have a combined pick rate of 57.39% in diamond, you won't even see a single one on either team half the time, meanwhile Emma alone has a 61.47% pick rate and Rocket 64.52%.

[Shamalamadingdang]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Strategists already counter dive in a 1 vs 1, and it shouldn't be one, if you are dying to Captain America, get your other damn strategist to heal you, boosted trash are too terrible at the game to heal each other to nullify all dive automatically, because none of them can kill through healing, most of them can't even kill through self healing.

It is not a dive META, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ divers have a combined pick rate of 57.39% in diamond, you won't even see a single one on either team half the time, meanwhile Emma alone has a 61.47% pick rate and Rocket 64.52%.

lol. Invis woman being able to push Panther a few feet back thereby delaying her death for .5 seconds is not a "counter." When Spidey and Psylocke drop onto your backline during a team fight, you can't just "out heal" the damage. I can tell you've never touched a support character just by the way you type. You're 100% insta lock DPS and you have been since day 1 of season 0 and I guarantee you call someone a racial slur if they ask you to switch.

[glaphen]

Originally posted by Shamalamadingdang:

Originally posted by glaphen:

Strategists already counter dive in a 1 vs 1, and it shouldn't be one, if you are dying to Captain America, get your other damn strategist to heal you, boosted trash are too terrible at the game to heal each other to nullify all dive automatically, because none of them can kill through healing, most of them can't even kill through self healing.

It is not a dive META, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ divers have a combined pick rate of 57.39% in diamond, you won't even see a single one on either team half the time, meanwhile Emma alone has a 61.47% pick rate and Rocket 64.52%.

lol. Invis woman being able to push Panther a few feet back thereby delaying her death for .5 seconds is not a "counter." When Spidey and Psylocke drop onto your backline during a team fight, you can't just "out heal" the damage. I can tell you've never touched a support character just by the way you type. You're 100% insta lock DPS and you have been since day 1 of season 0 and I guarantee you call someone a racial slur if they ask you to switch.

It is a counter when you stand inside your shield blocking the mark and healing 57.5 HPS, adding on the push/pull as well and invisibility and high melee cancel combo DPS. You can easily out heal the damage because Spiderman combo does 225 or 275 with Venom, and it starts with a 33 damage web over a second before, if you just healed that 33 damage web he can't kill anyone, Psylocke isn't even a dive, she is a flank, ranged flank are all able to do this anyway, complain about ranged flanking all you want.

[Shamalamadingdang]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Originally posted by Shamalamadingdang:

lol. Invis woman being able to push Panther a few feet back thereby delaying her death for .5 seconds is not a "counter." When Spidey and Psylocke drop onto your backline during a team fight, you can't just "out heal" the damage. I can tell you've never touched a support character just by the way you type. You're 100% insta lock DPS and you have been since day 1 of season 0 and I guarantee you call someone a racial slur if they ask you to switch.

It is a counter when you stand inside your shield blocking the mark and healing 57.5 HPS, adding on the push/pull as well and invisibility and high melee cancel combo DPS. You can easily out heal the damage because Spiderman combo does 225 or 275 with Venom, and it starts with a 33 damage web over a second before, if you just healed that 33 damage web he can't kill anyone, Psylocke isn't even a dive, she is a flank, ranged flank are all able to do this anyway, complain about ranged flanking all you want.

What you've done is you've painted a laboratory scenario that rarely happens in game. Yes, if I have all of my abilities off cool down, I can survive a Spidey attack by using all of my abilities. If my shield is on cool down or I don't have my double jump, I'm cooked. Also, Invis woman can't shield herself, so I have to hope there's a teammate nearby that I can shield and then run to that shield before I get melted. Notice how Spidey doesn't get punished for failing to secure the kill. He just leaves and he'll come back in about 3 seconds and we get to do it all again. At least Black Panther players face consequences for whiffing (getting stranded on the enemy backline with relatively low mobility).

This is all assuming I'm playing Invis Woman. If I'm playing Luna or C&D, I'm even more helpless against the divers. This argument that if a support uses all of their abilities and somehow manages to limp away from the encounter barely alive then the diver has been "countered" is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. A counter is like what happens when a Magik player runs into an Emma Frost. A counter is Wolverine vs. Groot. I'm really hoping Ultron has some abilities that shutdown this dive madness.

[glaphen]

Originally posted by Shamalamadingdang:

Originally posted by glaphen:

It is a counter when you stand inside your shield blocking the mark and healing 57.5 HPS, adding on the push/pull as well and invisibility and high melee cancel combo DPS. You can easily out heal the damage because Spiderman combo does 225 or 275 with Venom, and it starts with a 33 damage web over a second before, if you just healed that 33 damage web he can't kill anyone, Psylocke isn't even a dive, she is a flank, ranged flank are all able to do this anyway, complain about ranged flanking all you want.

What you've done is you've painted a laboratory scenario that rarely happens in game. Yes, if I have all of my abilities off cool down, I can survive a Spidey attack by using all of my abilities. If my shield is on cool down or I don't have my double jump, I'm cooked. Also, Invis woman can't shield herself, so I have to hope there's a teammate nearby that I can shield and then run to that shield before I get melted. Notice how Spidey doesn't get punished for failing to secure the kill. He just leaves and he'll come back in about 3 seconds and we get to do it all again. At least Black Panther players face consequences for whiffing (getting stranded on the enemy backline with relatively low mobility).

This is all assuming I'm playing Invis Woman. If I'm playing Luna or C&D, I'm even more helpless against the divers. This argument that if a support uses all of their abilities and somehow manages to limp away from the encounter barely alive then the diver has been "countered" is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. A counter is like what happens when a Magik player runs into an Emma Frost. A counter is Wolverine vs. Groot. I'm really hoping Ultron has some abilities that shutdown this dive madness.

Why is your shield on cooldown, it's a 5 second cooldown, if it's destroyed, they are down a DPS if they have a dive, so what else do you need your shield for, invisibility has a 6 second cooldown too. Meanwhile you can survive it by having your other strategist not be trash and use their basic healing as well, it's a team game, he is in your backline, where is your other strategist, meanwhile we are talking about Spiderman vs Invisible Woman not Panther so you don't even truly need any of these because just pushing him when he goes towards you ends his combo and your cooldowns are the same as his. He is punished because dive is trash and not in the fight when he runs, what do you think he is doing, absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nothing, a ranged DPS could be applying constant, higher damage since before Spiderman engaged, and will still be doing it after Spiderman leaves, but Spiderman is not practically dead doing absolutely nothing waiting for cooldowns making it a 6 vs 5.

Luna can freeze Spiderman and get 2 free head shots to instant kill him, he is the easiest kill of your life, Cloak and Dagger just has to bubble and no diver can kill you. It's not hard to freeze him, you have eons to react to his web icon above your head, then he makes a red web line directly pointing to where he is and when he is coming, going to a specific position to easily freeze, and even after he can only uppercut locking himself into another specific position, just hit the freeze, now you can get a free head shot within .5 seconds without removing the freeze, now you can just head shot him again at your leisure to kill him.

Also your counters are funny because Groot isn't even hard countered by Wolverine, he can just make a wall in the path he would be kidnapped, Emma also doesn't hard counter Magik, she can just portal or dash away when she hears diamond form activate, Thing on the other hand is a hard counter to Magik and Black Panther.

[Shamalamadingdang]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Why is your shield on cooldown, it's a 5 second cooldown, if it's destroyed, they are down a DPS if they have a dive, so what else do you need your shield for, invisibility has a 6 second cooldown too. Meanwhile you can survive it by having your other strategist not be trash and use their basic healing as well, it's a team game, he is in your backline, where is your other strategist, meanwhile we are talking about Spiderman vs Invisible Woman not Panther so you don't even truly need any of these because just pushing him when he goes towards you ends his combo and your cooldowns are the same as his. He is punished because dive is trash and not in the fight when he runs, what do you think he is doing, absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nothing, a ranged DPS could be applying constant, higher damage since before Spiderman engaged, and will still be doing it after Spiderman leaves, but Spiderman is not practically dead doing absolutely nothing waiting for cooldowns making it a 6 vs 5.

Luna can freeze Spiderman and get 2 free head shots to instant kill him, he is the easiest kill of your life, Cloak and Dagger just has to bubble and no diver can kill you. It's not hard to freeze him, you have eons to react to his web icon above your head, then he makes a red web line directly pointing to where he is and when he is coming, going to a specific position to easily freeze, and even after he can only uppercut locking himself into another specific position, just hit the freeze, now you can get a free head shot within .5 seconds without removing the freeze, now you can just head shot him again at your leisure to kill him.

Also your counters are funny because Groot isn't even hard countered by Wolverine, he can just make a wall in the path he would be kidnapped, Emma also doesn't hard counter Magik, she can just portal or dash away when she hears diamond form activate, Thing on the other hand is a hard counter to Magik and Black Panther.

I have to ask (even though there's no reason for you to be honest)...have you ever actually played support? Do you know how good a Luna has to be to reliably freeze a Spiderman?

Rephrase: Do you understand the skill gap? Do you understand that the Luna player has to be about 100x better than the Spidey player to come out ahead in that scenario? Do you understand that this is one of the things that support mains like me are pissed at? Right now, playing support feels like going through a f***ing blender. It feels like getting into a car crash. I have to sweat in quick play just to barely eek out a win (granted my quick play lobbies have Celestials in them).

P.S. Wolv absolutely counters Groot. Groot has the worst mobility of any tank and no ability shield himself. If Groot gets snatched by a Wolv he just has to stand there and take it if his team doesn't save him.

[AvidExpert]

Originally posted by Shamalamadingdang:

Originally posted by glaphen:

Strategists already counter dive in a 1 vs 1, and it shouldn't be one, if you are dying to Captain America, get your other damn strategist to heal you, boosted trash are too terrible at the game to heal each other to nullify all dive automatically, because none of them can kill through healing, most of them can't even kill through self healing.

It is not a dive META, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ divers have a combined pick rate of 57.39% in diamond, you won't even see a single one on either team half the time, meanwhile Emma alone has a 61.47% pick rate and Rocket 64.52%.

lol. Invis woman being able to push Panther a few feet back thereby delaying her death for .5 seconds is not a "counter." When Spidey and Psylocke drop onto your backline during a team fight, you can't just "out heal" the damage. I can tell you've never touched a support character just by the way you type. You're 100% insta lock DPS and you have been since day 1 of season 0 and I guarantee you call someone a racial slur if they ask you to switch.

pick cnd, when psylock backlines you, self bubble, she can no longer kill you, now you kill her.

[EmperorVolo]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Strategists already counter dive in a 1 vs 1, and it shouldn't be one, if you are dying to Captain America, get your other damn strategist to heal you, boosted trash are too terrible at the game to heal each other to nullify all dive automatically, because none of them can kill through healing, most of them can't even kill through self healing.

It is not a dive META, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ divers have a combined pick rate of 57.39% in diamond, you won't even see a single one on either team half the time, meanwhile Emma alone has a 61.47% pick rate and Rocket 64.52%.

That's the lowest level thought I've ever. Heard most healer have a self heal on cool down some have NONE. Since the self heals are all lower than actual heals they can definitely do damage through them.

I mean Invis's self heal is hiding. In which the dives already getting the effect they're looking for removing the enemy heals.

I mean I don't even think bronze is this bad.

1. Rocket is ANTI-DIVE due to movement. 2. Emma is a new character.

So you literally have zero clue what you're talking about.

[EmperorVolo]

Originally posted by Jincel #1:

Originally posted by Shamalamadingdang:

lol. Invis woman being able to push Panther a few feet back thereby delaying her death for .5 seconds is not a "counter." When Spidey and Psylocke drop onto your backline during a team fight, you can't just "out heal" the damage. I can tell you've never touched a support character just by the way you type. You're 100% insta lock DPS and you have been since day 1 of season 0 and I guarantee you call someone a racial slur if they ask you to switch.

pick cnd, when psylock backlines you, self bubble, she can no longer kill you, now you kill her.

Ok don't you think a good one would wait for you to use it first then go for yah?? What level are you guys at? I feel like they opened up something below bronze.

[glaphen]

Originally posted by Shamalamadingdang:

Originally posted by glaphen:

Why is your shield on cooldown, it's a 5 second cooldown, if it's destroyed, they are down a DPS if they have a dive, so what else do you need your shield for, invisibility has a 6 second cooldown too. Meanwhile you can survive it by having your other strategist not be trash and use their basic healing as well, it's a team game, he is in your backline, where is your other strategist, meanwhile we are talking about Spiderman vs Invisible Woman not Panther so you don't even truly need any of these because just pushing him when he goes towards you ends his combo and your cooldowns are the same as his. He is punished because dive is trash and not in the fight when he runs, what do you think he is doing, absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nothing, a ranged DPS could be applying constant, higher damage since before Spiderman engaged, and will still be doing it after Spiderman leaves, but Spiderman is not practically dead doing absolutely nothing waiting for cooldowns making it a 6 vs 5.

Luna can freeze Spiderman and get 2 free head shots to instant kill him, he is the easiest kill of your life, Cloak and Dagger just has to bubble and no diver can kill you. It's not hard to freeze him, you have eons to react to his web icon above your head, then he makes a red web line directly pointing to where he is and when he is coming, going to a specific position to easily freeze, and even after he can only uppercut locking himself into another specific position, just hit the freeze, now you can get a free head shot within .5 seconds without removing the freeze, now you can just head shot him again at your leisure to kill him.

Also your counters are funny because Groot isn't even hard countered by Wolverine, he can just make a wall in the path he would be kidnapped, Emma also doesn't hard counter Magik, she can just portal or dash away when she hears diamond form activate, Thing on the other hand is a hard counter to Magik and Black Panther.

I have to ask (even though there's no reason for you to be honest)...have you ever actually played support? Do you know how good a Luna has to be to reliably freeze a Spiderman?

Rephrase: Do you understand the skill gap? Do you understand that the Luna player has to be about 100x better than the Spidey player to come out ahead in that scenario? Do you understand that this is one of the things that support mains like me are pissed at? Right now, playing support feels like going through a f***ing blender. It feels like getting into a car crash. I have to sweat in quick play just to barely eek out a win (granted my quick play lobbies have Celestials in them).

P.S. Wolv absolutely counters Groot. Groot has the worst mobility of any tank and no ability shield himself. If Groot gets snatched by a Wolv he just has to stand there and take it if his team doesn't save him.

Once again, how is it hard, he literally is stuck in a static position in his auto combo, and he gives you eons to react to it, there is absolutely no reason to miss, sorry you need to have an ounce of skill to counter the hardest to play character in the game, not that you even need it since the 30 HPS you get for even activating it lets you survive him anyway...

Lmao no she does not, as I said you survive it even if you somehow are boosted enough to miss, you come out on top in every scenario, because if he fails his combo and escapes there's no difference with him being dead and not practically, he is out of the fight for the next 10+ seconds. Strategist mains are boosted to an insane degree, they are pissed at having to do anything but healbot, sorry you are under threat at lower levels to dive because ranged are only shooting the tank for you to healbot instead of just shooting your terrible positioning down. Sorry you need to play the game, I thought that was agreed upon on starting it up but strategists didn't get the memo I guess.

He counters bad Groots, if a Groot knows he's coming he can just place a wall infront of himself right before the kidnap would happen, then he's stuck walking into a wall, Wolverine's DPS isn't even high, even at max rage, the kidnap is everything, if you prevent that he can't do ♥♥♥♥, meanwhile the Wolverine is now the one blocked off from his team by the wall and is exposed to his team.

[glaphen]

Originally posted by EmperorVolo:

Originally posted by glaphen:

Strategists already counter dive in a 1 vs 1, and it shouldn't be one, if you are dying to Captain America, get your other damn strategist to heal you, boosted trash are too terrible at the game to heal each other to nullify all dive automatically, because none of them can kill through healing, most of them can't even kill through self healing.

It is not a dive META, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ divers have a combined pick rate of 57.39% in diamond, you won't even see a single one on either team half the time, meanwhile Emma alone has a 61.47% pick rate and Rocket 64.52%.

That's the lowest level thought I've ever. Heard most healer have a self heal on cool down some have NONE. Since the self heals are all lower than actual heals they can definitely do damage through them.

I mean Invis's self heal is hiding. In which the dives already getting the effect they're looking for removing the enemy heals.

I mean I don't even think bronze is this bad.

1. Rocket is ANTI-DIVE due to movement. 2. Emma is a new character.

So you literally have zero clue what you're talking about.

Yeah no they can't, Iron Fist does 114 DPS, if you subtract the 30 HPS all strategists have he is doing 84? Can your other strategist not react in the 2+ seconds it takes for him to kill you, and again that's just that, Cloak and Dagger is healing 63 in her bubble, so he is doing 51 DPS for the next 6 seconds, he literally can't kill her, then if she just basic attacks him with she heals another 41 HPS, he does 10 DPS??? Captain America does a bit more than 120 DPS animation canceling, Black Panther combos main burst is 250 exactly, Magik's main burst is 212, then it depends on which skills she wants to continue with or start with, but she only does less than 100 DPS just swinging, you can just side step the demons, it's only 3 meters width. Invisible Woman is even better just standing next to her shield, and she can melee combo to kill very quickly. Mantis can sleep into a triple head shot, and you can't even miss the sleep. Adam Warlock has 2 instant full heals and a 6 second invulnerability, and he can 2 tap any DPS dive with a right click left click, the 250s don't even need a head shot, and even if you somehow die you have a 2nd life. Luna does not have as much self protection if she can't aim her freeze, but Black Panther is just going back in forth, you keep looking ahead he returns for a easy freeze if you can't turn around fast enough yourself, Magik is the same as Spiderman sending herself to a free freeze, Loki has his runes and swap and invisibility, 3 different methods to survive, on top of that he heals 210 HPS and deals 157.5 DPS to whatever a melee is targeting. Rocket and Jeff I don't even need to talk about them right?

[Shamalamadingdang]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Once again, how is it hard, he literally is stuck in a static position in his auto combo, and he gives you eons to react to it, there is absolutely no reason to miss, sorry you need to have an ounce of skill to counter the hardest to play character in the game, not that you even need it since the 30 HPS you get for even activating it lets you survive him anyway...

Lmao no she does not, as I said you survive it even if you somehow are boosted enough to miss, you come out on top in every scenario, because if he fails his combo and escapes there's no difference with him being dead and not practically, he is out of the fight for the next 10+ seconds. Strategist mains are boosted to an insane degree, they are pissed at having to do anything but healbot, sorry you are under threat at lower levels to dive because ranged are only shooting the tank for you to healbot instead of just shooting your terrible positioning down. Sorry you need to play the game, I thought that was agreed upon on starting it up but strategists didn't get the memo I guess.

He counters bad Groots, if a Groot knows he's coming he can just place a wall infront of himself right before the kidnap would happen, then he's stuck walking into a wall, Wolverine's DPS isn't even high, even at max rage, the kidnap is everything, if you prevent that he can't do ♥♥♥♥, meanwhile the Wolverine is now the one blocked off from his team by the wall and is exposed to his team.

This is pointless. You're just going to keep saying some variation of "all you have to do is win, bro." No s***. All you have to do is pick Hela and hit all head shots with 100% accuracy. Wow. What a contribution.

All of the stuff you said works fine in a lab with all other variables controlled. None of what you said takes into account the rest of the battlefield during a mid/high rank comp game. While the Spidey or BP in our example is engaging the healers, there's also a Magik coming toward you. There's also a Cap bouncing his shield off your forehead. There's a Mag walking you down. Meanwhile your team desperately needs your resources to stay alive and you're having to hoard them for yourself.

Also Spidey is not hard to use. I've played Spidey. I know that once you hit the tracer, he auto locks for the web pull. I know his uppercut has a 10' radius around his character model. Stop lying bro.

[glaphen]

Originally posted by Shamalamadingdang:

Originally posted by glaphen:

Once again, how is it hard, he literally is stuck in a static position in his auto combo, and he gives you eons to react to it, there is absolutely no reason to miss, sorry you need to have an ounce of skill to counter the hardest to play character in the game, not that you even need it since the 30 HPS you get for even activating it lets you survive him anyway...

Lmao no she does not, as I said you survive it even if you somehow are boosted enough to miss, you come out on top in every scenario, because if he fails his combo and escapes there's no difference with him being dead and not practically, he is out of the fight for the next 10+ seconds. Strategist mains are boosted to an insane degree, they are pissed at having to do anything but healbot, sorry you are under threat at lower levels to dive because ranged are only shooting the tank for you to healbot instead of just shooting your terrible positioning down. Sorry you need to play the game, I thought that was agreed upon on starting it up but strategists didn't get the memo I guess.

He counters bad Groots, if a Groot knows he's coming he can just place a wall infront of himself right before the kidnap would happen, then he's stuck walking into a wall, Wolverine's DPS isn't even high, even at max rage, the kidnap is everything, if you prevent that he can't do ♥♥♥♥, meanwhile the Wolverine is now the one blocked off from his team by the wall and is exposed to his team.

This is pointless. You're just going to keep saying some variation of "all you have to do is win, bro." No s***. All you have to do is pick Hela and hit all head shots with 100% accuracy. Wow. What a contribution.

All of the stuff you said works fine in a lab with all other variables controlled. None of what you said takes into account the rest of the battlefield during a mid/high rank comp game. While the Spidey or BP in our example is engaging the healers, there's also a Magik coming toward you. There's also a Cap bouncing his shield off your forehead. There's a Mag walking you down. Meanwhile your team desperately needs your resources to stay alive and you're having to hoard them for yourself.

Also Spidey is not hard to use. I've played Spidey. I know that once you hit the tracer, he auto locks for the web pull. I know his uppercut has a 10' radius around his character model. Stop lying bro.

None of this is as hard as Hela with 100% accuracy, you are hitting static targets that don't move here, how are you missing?

Oh so there's multiple divers, so even easier to deal with, just have your team ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ play some of the many anti-dive characters that also exist and it's a free win if they aren't trash at those anti-dive characters, or play with even more strategists. Once again they do not need those resources because they are down a consistent DPS, this is the variable you are ignoring, I am not ignoring any of them, you are.

Yes it's easy to do his auto combo, what is not easy is everything else, a bad Spiderman has been a meme for months for a reason, it's only recently that people started complaining, because the Spiderman players have gotten better at the game after months of practice, while boosted strategist trash are still at the starting line having not learned a single damn thing. You guys capped on raw healbotting skill ceiling day 1.

It's funny because Groot's only buff has been 3 extra meter wall placement, nothing of real value, but now he's suddenly also must ban, almost like people started to actually learn to play him, and bad Groots are still more of a hindrance than anything still.

[AvidExpert]

Originally posted by EmperorVolo:

Originally posted by Jincel #1:

pick cnd, when psylock backlines you, self bubble, she can no longer kill you, now you kill her.

Ok don't you think a good one would wait for you to use it first then go for yah?? What level are you guys at? I feel like they opened up something below bronze.

No, I play Psylock and CND at eternity, Psylock cannot kill cnd.

ALso if ur wasting ur bubble with a flanker on cnd, its not a dive issue its a you issue.

Too many healers wanna statpad by spamming every ability moment its off cooldown, that's not how you play hero shooters, you guys would be at 0 mana in 15s in a Moba.

[Shamalamadingdang]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Oh so there's multiple divers, so even easier to deal with, just have your team ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ play some of the many anti-dive characters that also exist and it's a free win if they aren't trash at those anti-dive characters, or play with even more strategists. Once again they do not need those resources because they are down a consistent DPS, this is the variable you are ignoring, I am not ignoring any of them, you are.

Yes it's easy to do his auto combo, what is not easy is everything else, a bad Spiderman has been a meme for months for a reason, it's only recently that people started complaining, because the Spiderman players have gotten better at the game after months of practice, while boosted strategist trash are still at the starting line having not learned a single damn thing.

OR and consider this...the ceiling of how good a support can be is much lower than the ceiling of how good a diver can be. There is no strategist equivalent of Necros. This isn't a function of anyone being boosted. This is a function of the kits the characters have. Right now, there aren't enough ways to mitigate this. That's my (and others) whole point. A Luna snowball is not good enough when it comes to dealing with Spidey, Panther, Magik, etc.

You act like supports can easily dominate DPS players like DPS players are the poor defenseless victims. Someone unfamiliar with the game would read your posts and think DPS players are getting bullied by the healers.

And having a Spidey on the team is not "being down a DPS." Spidey is so mobile that he can feed off health packs. He's still out there doing damage he's just not taking any healing resources. So having a Spidey just means you have a DPS on your team that you don't have to heal (which means more healing for everyone else). It's not a handicap, it's an advantage.