Those balance changes are awful.

[Mitrovarr]

Several strategists gutted for no reason (like, why Mantis? Why Rocket?)

No nerfs to Spider-Man

Nuking the tanks people actually want to use.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Chij:

100/150 bonus health for 25% damage from 40% doesn't feel fair, but again - Rocket is my main, so I might be biased.

Don't forget this is 100 bonus health PER SECOND. It's like a mini "be invincible" ult now. When paired with Rocket's heal balls (which he can still spam during his ult) it's going to be pretty hard to kill anyone.

Originally posted by Mitrovarr:

It feels like even if Rocket doesn't suck after this they nerfed the hell out of his uniqueness.

I sort of agree, but people did complain all the time about Rocket. Honestly I think he's almost certainly better now (good luck ever stopping Punisher ult through Rocket's ult now), but I don't know if we really needed more "be invincible" in the game.

Oh, here's something fun. At max health boost from Rocket ult, you can no longer Meteor M Punisher to stop his ult, he tanks it. Rocket / Frank BFFs forever.

[Cpt Obvious]

Not sure how to feel about the Mr. Fantastic "buffs".

[Vudash]

chill and try it first then complain or shut up

[Bind0fGod]

Yeah bad patch. This is just Overwatch 3

[Chij]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Originally posted by Chij:

100/150 bonus health for 25% damage from 40% doesn't feel fair, but again - Rocket is my main, so I might be biased.

Don't forget this is 100 bonus health PER SECOND. It's like a mini "be invincible" ult now. When paired with Rocket's heal balls (which he can still spam during his ult) it's going to be pretty hard to kill anyone.

Originally posted by Mitrovarr:

It feels like even if Rocket doesn't suck after this they nerfed the hell out of his uniqueness.

I sort of agree, but people did complain all the time about Rocket. Honestly I think he's almost certainly better now (good luck ever stopping Punisher ult through Rocket's ult now), but I don't know if we really needed more "be invincible" in the game.

Exactly - he became just one of the "circle of immunity" supports, but now he's easier to kill before his ult...
I don't know... feels like they did nerf support overall...
I guess we should wait and try it, before making any real complaints...

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Oh, here's something fun. At max health boost from Rocket ult, you can no longer Meteor M Punisher to stop his ult, he tanks it.

Well, that's something, at least)

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Chij:

he's easier to kill before his ult...

He may not be if the 55 instant healing from his healballs applies to himself as well.

It's also worth noting that most escape movement abilities saw cooldown increases, Hela and Scarlet Witch were also hit. Rocket is still probably pretty slippery even with 10s cooldown on Jet Dash, you just have to be a little more careful with your resource management now.

[Chij]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Originally posted by Chij:

he's easier to kill before his ult...

He may not be if the 55 instant healing from his healballs applies to himself as well.

It's also worth noting that most escape movement abilities saw cooldown increases, Hela and Scarlet Witch were also hit. Rocket is still probably pretty slippery even with 10s cooldown on Jet Dash, you just have to be a little more careful with your resource management now.

Yeah, you're probably right...
Still, it's slightly annoying that characters who really needed mobility checks (Spider-Man and especially Black Panther) were untouched...

[Terotrous]

Dive is interesting. It's true that none of the divers got nerfs, so how dive will do is all about how well anti-dive does. Emma looks like she's fairly heavily anti-dive (don't forget that if she chokeslams someone, the rest of her team can dogpile that target while they're immobilized, it's like a mini Hulk grab but with much more grab range), but it remains to be seen how good she is. Peni and Wanda also got big buffs and they are anti-dive. We have no idea what Namor's team-up with Hulk does, so Namor is a big question mark right now.

Bans also now start in gold, so expect Spiderman to be banned every game from Gold 3 to Plat 1.

[glaphen]

She has sleep into triple head shot that hard counters dive as is, she won't die to any instant kill combo because of that alone, even without it she has a permanent 12.5 regen so it really changes almost nothing as she can still survive any dive burst combo.

Dive wasn't nerfed because they are trash, but they weren't buffed because they are good against bad/console players and they don't want to balance for the top end for some reason.

[Bind0fGod]

Originally posted by glaphen:

She has sleep into triple head shot that hard counters dive as is, she won't die to any instant kill combo because of that alone, even without it she has a permanent 32.5 regen so it really changes almost nothing as she can still survive any dive burst combo.

Dive wasn't nerfed because they are trash, but they weren't buffed because they are good against bad/console players and they don't want to balance for the top end for some reason.

Forgetting the only reason she got to pull that combo off is that she lived through the initial barrage spidey combo and could respond.

[Chij]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Dive is interesting. It's true that none of the divers got nerfs, so how dive will do is all about how well anti-dive does. Emma looks like she's fairly heavily anti-dive (don't forget that if she chokeslams someone, the rest of her team can dogpile that target while they're immobilized, it's like a mini Hulk grab but with much more grab range), but it remains to be seen how good she is. Peni and Wanda also got big buffs and they are anti-dive. We have no idea what Namor's team-up with Hulk does, so Namor is a big question mark right now.

Bans also now start in gold, so expect Spiderman to be banned every game from Gold 3 to Plat 1.

99% of my games are QP, so...
And I was meaning that dive getting more dangerous for Rocket specifically, with his shift nerf and dive staying as fast as they were.
I mean - what's the reason behind nerfing Rocket movement - as I understand it, because it was really frustrating trying to kill him as DPS.
Now, if we look at BP (Spider-Man doesn't actually bother me that much, unless he is played by a very good player), he will be still moving with light speed when attacking. As a support - it is really frustrating to try to kill him, but I see no nerfs on his part...

Never mind me... it's a "me" problem, unless these tweaks will prove to be a bad decision.
Time will tell.

[glaphen]

Originally posted by Bind0fGod:

Originally posted by glaphen:

She has sleep into triple head shot that hard counters dive as is, she won't die to any instant kill combo because of that alone, even without it she has a permanent 32.5 regen so it really changes almost nothing as she can still survive any dive burst combo.

Dive wasn't nerfed because they are trash, but they weren't buffed because they are good against bad/console players and they don't want to balance for the top end for some reason.

Forgetting the only reason she got to pull that combo off is that she lived through the initial barrage spidey combo and could respond.

You have ages to react to the web icon, years to react the red web telling you when he is coming and where he is coming from, you literally only need to hit the floor and he is asleep to be hit with up to 3 free head shots.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Chij:

I mean - what's the reason behind nerfing Rocket movement - as I understand it, because it was really frustrating trying to kill him as DPS.

I think the main reason for the Rocket changes is because a lot of people constantly complain he doesn't contribute enough due to his lack of burst heal and a sustain ultimate. They gave him both of those things, but he had to take some kind of nerf to avoid being super broken afterwards (as his win rate was actually already one of the highest in the game).

I still wish he could have gotten a range upgrade to his gun, as I like to pew pew, but I guess Frank just has to bring the firepower when you're playing him.

I think the logic for the Mantis changes is probably similar. I really like being able to stack the boosts, this will make playing her more interesting (it is also a straight buff in situations where I have to multi-heal someone to keep them alive), but she already had the highest winrate in the game so she can't get that buff without some kind of nerf.

[Bind0fGod]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Originally posted by Bind0fGod:

Forgetting the only reason she got to pull that combo off is that she lived through the initial barrage spidey combo and could respond.

You have ages to react to the web icon, years to react the red web telling you when he is coming and where he is coming from, you literally only need to hit the floor and he is asleep to be hit with up to 3 free head shots.

Good spidermans have learned to dive from the top of the map while starting the combo.

Something that was only previously countered by the 3rd namor turret that can track him up there.

Any spiderman that is giving you "ages" to react was already throwing for his team. No one is talking about them here.

[glaphen]

Originally posted by Bind0fGod:

Originally posted by glaphen:

You have ages to react to the web icon, years to react the red web telling you when he is coming and where he is coming from, you literally only need to hit the floor and he is asleep to be hit with up to 3 free head shots.

Good spidermans have learned to dive from the top of the map while starting the combo.

Something that was only previously countered by the 3rd namor turret that can track him up there.

Any spiderman that is giving you "ages" to react was already throwing for his team. No one is talking about them here.

It's impossible for a Spiderman to skip the steps in his combo so I don't know what you are talking about, he has to hit a web first, then pull himself to you, none of this is even fast, you realize his pull is 24 meters range too right, so I have no idea how he is doing it from the top of the map, no matter what he is coming directly to you to be hit by the sleep you don't even have to look at him to hit.