Counters to Dive

[ygaz]

Are there any? From what I've seen as a support main, is the only consistent way to counter a dive hero like: Iron fist, Magik, Venon or Spiderman, is to outplay them with Mantis or Luna Stun. Both on a 15 second CD, meaning if you fail to KO, Miss, or are facing multiple dive heroes, you become a sitting duck.

I would assume from my 1000's of hours in a different Hero Shooter, that I'm missing Map knowledge, but Am wondering if I'm missing something obvious.

[Karnarax]

The counter is to have 2 healers. I play Venom a lot and I can't do ♥♥♥♥ if I dive and try to pick the healer while another one heals them. Then the team focuses you and you either die or escape back to your team

[Kyutaru]

Some heroes have ways of protecting you too. If you play this game like a series of 1v1 battles, you'll never get high rank or understand the value of teamwork. Magneto can bubble allies, Wolverine can pull away enemies, Peni can tie them up, Strange can block for them, you just have to let your team solve the problem instead of expecting to deal with it yourself. Best you can do is try to stay alive and not allow them to get close in the first place by ensuring you're near someone who can help if you spot them.

[Chan]

Play rocket and shift away. Play jeff and click e + shift. The real trick is to ask your teammates to help with them and to stick close to people that can help you like the other healer/healers and be ready with a plan when they do try to kill you.

[PossibleTango]

someone like namor is good at dealing with them as well.

[OMEGA]

the counter is to get your team to turn around

[Mochan]

Origineel geplaatst door ygaz:

Are there any? From what I've seen as a support main, is the only consistent way to counter a dive hero like: Iron fist, Magik, Venon or Spiderman, is to outplay them with Mantis or Luna Stun. Both on a 15 second CD, meaning if you fail to KO, Miss, or are facing multiple dive heroes, you become a sitting duck.

I would assume from my 1000's of hours in a different Hero Shooter, that I'm missing Map knowledge, but Am wondering if I'm missing something obvious.

Plenty of Support Dive Counters. It's not just Mantis or Luna stun. Now, first off, if you are facing multiple dive heroes and you are just one support you will die. I mean, you are outnumbered. But one on one? Most supports, even Adam "Sitting Duck" Warlock can survive with a little skill and luck.

Dagger has it easiest. Throw heal bubble at feet, switch to cloak, blind and kill. You may run out of time against Venom in which case use Cloak's disengage to run away. You'll have Dagger's bubble up by this time again so you should be fine.

Jeff is harder as you need to see the dive hero coming. if they get the jump on you you won't have enough time. But basically when you are about to get dived, throw bubble onf loor, run into it and swim away. if you do it right and don't mess up your dive (it can be interrupted by you attacking or shooting bubbles) you can usually get away, heal up, then counter attack. And you repeat the bubble dive dance as necessary, it is winnable. Spiderman and Iron Fist are hardest as they can combo kill you in ways Venom and Illyana can't.

Adam Warlock is a skill battle. You have to use your Soul Bind and Quantum Heals while dueling and killing the diving DPS. It depends on how good your aim is and whether you've already used your Quantum Heals to heal your team -- which is likely. If you have, you are likely going to die unless someone peels for you. If you are with your team you should be fine as you can soul bind and then someone peels for you. If not well crap better land those headshots.

Rocket - fire a few healing shots then dash forward and away. YOu heal yourself and put distance between the dive hero, then run up a wall or something, do what you can to make as much space as possible, heal yourself with your balls as necessary, if not return fire and try to kill the DPS.

Mantis and Luna - you know how to duel with them. Stun and kill. Luna can "I Suck" and get extra healing while dueling and go hitscan for better dueling chances. Mantis just self dmg boost obviously.

Loki - the best one, takes skill and mind gaming. Loki is all about using your clones to good effect. They should be out already when the enemies dive you, if not you already screwed up, but still salvageable. You can use your fade to escape, but you need to do it early, kind of like Jeff, and see the dive coming. if they are right next to you already when you fade chances are they'll hit you with a lucky shot and knock you out of your invisibilitiy and you're dead.

The more correect play is to have your clones setup already when they attack. Then you switch with a clone and stand very still and start hitting them with your magic beams. They will die if you shoot properly. Use healing crystal and you basically won already. But if things still go south, then use fade and run away while you recover life and get your cooldowns back. You can cast illusions while faded and this will not break invisibilty, so you can screw with the dive hero this way, really Loki just laughsat dive heroes as long as they don't get the jump on you. When they're frustrated enough and didnt' disengage or find another target already (most DPS will if you've survived this long), and you have your cooldowns back (at least the clone switch or heal cyrstal) stab them in the back for massive damage and make them sorry for trying to kill you.

And again I must point this out. Supports are NOT HEALBOTS. Supports in this game are expected to be good at killing. If you can't aim, you are missing out on half of your kit unless you play Dagger. Dagger is the only support that doesnt' need to aim. Everyone else does. All Support Heroes in this game other than Dagger require good aim to play correctly. The sooner you accept that, the better you will be at playing as support.

[IndianaJones]

Origineel geplaatst door ygaz:

Are there any? From what I've seen as a support main, is the only consistent way to counter a dive hero like: Iron fist, Magik, Venon or Spiderman, is to outplay them with Mantis or Luna Stun. Both on a 15 second CD, meaning if you fail to KO, Miss, or are facing multiple dive heroes, you become a sitting duck.

That's what you have a team for.
If your team is not paying attention were the healers are, not trying line up to help them do their job, or protect them when targeted and harassed by tank or duel DPS. That team deserve to loose.

Obviously, as healer you are not fit with hero skills that will allow you to win a duel with DPS. Sure you might get lucky sometimes, but you mostly you're on handicap position here.

[NutritiousNamenPlatzhalter]

Namor with Luna Snow Team up is really good against divers

[Sacred)(Rhaine]

WInter solider, namor, penny, thor.... and everything with cc basically.

[₢ Cryptic Chipp]

Rocket is a great counter to dive, his mobility and being able to run along walls in all directions gives him outs most players don't expect. Also can float and still heal from high places while coming to the ground slowly.

[Probably Alpharius]

play Penny. She is literally THE anti-dive

[SamuS]

you just have to let your team solve the problem instead of expecting to deal with it yourself.

Good luck with that. Even at high ELO people are completely oblivious to their backing dying. Full tunnel vision.

[GREEDY GOBLIN]

Origineel geplaatst door ygaz:

Are there any? From what I've seen as a support main, is the only consistent way to counter a dive hero like: Iron fist, Magik, Venon or Spiderman, is to outplay them with Mantis or Luna Stun. Both on a 15 second CD, meaning if you fail to KO, Miss, or are facing multiple dive heroes, you become a sitting duck.

I would assume from my 1000's of hours in a different Hero Shooter, that I'm missing Map knowledge, but Am wondering if I'm missing something obvious.

The only thing that counters a dive character is a whole team trying to only kill the diver, otherwise he gets his free one shot and teleports to safety. 2 dive tanks and 2 dive dps? Lose easily as your team will never have any healing and theirs will. Turns out low but consistent damage (THAT YOU HAVE TO AIM) loses to a ton of damage instantly that you have to aim vaguely 1 time.

[GREEDY GOBLIN]

Origineel geplaatst door Probably Alpharius:

play Penny. She is literally THE anti-dive

Spiderman never touches the ground...