This game has an Ult problem

[The Inkvader]

The ultimate abilities in this game are out of control and remove almost all measure of skill from the game. Why are there three separate ults that just . . . make everything invincible? Why are there so many ults that can just instantly wipe a team? That isn't a measure of skill. I understand it's some kind of 'power fantasy' thing like Blizz talked about back in the day. How getting a multi kill by pressing Q keeps the casual folks hooked. But, don't you guys understand that is literally dangling sparkly keys in front of your face at the cost of the health of the game?

The other balance problems can be ironed out with largely numbers. Give Hela some falloff, nerf Hawkeye's one shot ability ect ect, but how do you balance Mantis ult? Either it makes everyone unkillable or it doesn't. The only anti-heal ability in the game is Dr. Strange's ability to screw himself over, so it can't be brought into check by another mechanic. And, just like Ana, if they introduce a character with that ability, they will be must-pick for the next five years while they bring in some other characters who can also do that job.

Ultimate abilities just don't feel good. Younger players might get the endorphins from the multikill popping up, but anyone who's gamed for a time will recognize the lack of skill expression and feel nothing. The entire reason Luna and Mantis are must-plays at the moment is because they have the most reliable way to stop a team-wiping Q from happening. It kills meta innovation. They need to either be removed, or toned so far down that they are basically another utility cd.

I understand the odds of ults being fixed or removed is slim to none, but it would help if the community at least recognized the contributing factor to the balance and meta issues that they are currently wracking the game with. How many characters never get picked above gold simply because their ults suck? The only character with a mid ult I see played at top tier is Namor, but there are other reasons for that.

Whose ults do you think need changed and how would you fix them? Or do you think it's simply not possible to see balanced ults with the framework this game has been built on? I'm curious to hear what others are experiencing.

[4D]

Yeah the ultimate disparity is my only technical complaint with the game; the other complaint being the dps instalocks, but that's the playerbase which the devs have no control over.

Trying to get the Steam achievements made it painfully obvious how weak and how broken some ults are.

[dragonoftime27]

Originally posted by SavRoyale:

Don't even need to read.

Ultimates are supposed to turn the Game.

Exactly!!!! why dont these people get that?!?

[The Inkvader]

Originally posted by dragonoftime27:

Originally posted by SavRoyale:

Don't even need to read.

Ultimates are supposed to turn the Game.

Exactly!!!! why dont these people get that?!?

Because "Turn the game" Shouldn't mean "Press Q and win." They can be game changing while requiring thought and good execution to use. And having a little magnificent something called counterplay

[You'reJustBad]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Originally posted by Skunk:

That number one ranked Iron Man plays with a duo Hulk who gives him a damage boost, plus he doesn't have to worry about Hawkeye or Hela because they're banned.

If that's what it takes to make Iron Man the king of the hill, then that's what you do. Everyone's banning those two anyway, makes sense to main the third best who would ordinarily fear them. IQ 200. He terrorizes with that setup.

Iron fist, human helicoptering toward iron man

[Ronin Gamer]

Someone is taking a vidjamagame too seriously and can't just have a bit of fun messing around with stuff.

[dragonoftime27]

Originally posted by The Inkvader:

Originally posted by dragonoftime27:

Exactly!!!! why dont these people get that?!?

Because "Turn the game" Shouldn't mean "Press Q and win." They can be game changing while requiring thought and good execution to use. And having a little magnificent something called counterplay

1. thats exactly what "Turn the game" means. I mean "press Q and win" is just you exaggerating. More like "use ult to push enemy team back".
2. there is thought and execution
3. ah yes your definition "counterplay" the imaginary concept where you feel you can press a button and it should negate anything your opponent can do. The real counterplay is: listen to the ult callout and scatter , if not then its just something you have to deal with and hope it doesnt result in a wipe

[Dungledoo]

Because "Turn the game" Shouldn't mean "Press Q and win." They can be game changing while requiring thought and good execution to use. And having a little magnificent something called counterplay

Almost every ult has counterplay. It's a different problem if either you or your teammates don't know how to play against it. Just about every nuke can be stopped by shields, Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, and Star Lord can literally be shot out if it with NO extra effort, and to counter ults like Luna or Mantis is to wait them out, preferably with shields. There are some which might be harder to deal with like Peni or Storm, but there is no ult in this game which makes you invincible and gives one shot potential from full health.

[Sonrangeri]

Ults should have fixed recharge timer.

No more damage/healing/taking damage charging it faster. With fixed timers, devs could tune their cooldown more precisely, and buff/nerf cooldown itself, without touching damage or function of ults.

If someone starts have worse winrate due to changes, just either buff base kit be to more useful, or reduce cooldown of ult slighty, depending data of characters' performance.

Ironman doing team wipes every ult, but doing almost nothing with his base abilities? buff his primary fire abilities instead. When someone is doing ult every fight, it gets stale and boring loop of waiting for ults to be able to do anything.

[Scamdiver]

Stralord's/Scarlet's/Black pather's/ Naymor's/ Moon knight's ults are fine - they have counterplays and require skill and timing to use.

Luna's/Mantise's/ Cloak's/Hela's ults - are pure garbage.

[Ladiesman217]

Originally posted by SavRoyale:

Don't even need to read.

Ultimates are supposed to turn the Game.

tell me your are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at the game without telling me your are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at the game

[Ladiesman217]

100% agree. Everyone saying something else is propably a hard casual player with no actual skill in the game, or is blind and dumb at the same time. I am Grandmaster and every game revolves around having the better ults. Every fight is just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of multiple ults beeing spammed. And who has the better ults wins. Ults ruin this game.

[Wolviller111]

Not a big fan of Ultimates. Wasn't in Overwatch and still ain't here.
Some are fine, like Moon Knight, Namor, Black Widow, etc.
I think Iron Man's is actually the perfect balance of what a damaging ult should look like. A bit of windup, leaving him vulnerable and a reasonable travel time.
I've also learned to love Widow's ult as a kind of supporting ult to set up kills

And then you have ults that just make me groan every time i hear them: Hela, Anime Lady, Star Lord and especially the support ♥♥♥♥♥. Luna Snow and Mantis can go and throw themselves off a cliff. So extremly unfun and broken.

And then there is the shark...

[Rayman.]

nerf Luna and Mantis ult first then u can nerf whoever u want. Pressing buttons for insta value is very unhealthy

[Akasha]

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

Stralord's/Scarlet's/Black pather's/ Naymor's/ Moon knight's ults are fine - they have counterplays and require skill and timing to use.

Luna's/Mantise's/ Cloak's/Hela's ults - are pure garbage.

You just named "garbage" ult's with counterplays Hela's being the easiest to counter play. While Luna's, Mantis, Cloak/Dagger's are either counter played or DPS checked yes you can out damage a healer ult it's a skill/team cooperation issue.

[Cardboard]

Originally posted by The Inkvader:

The ultimate abilities in this game are out of control and remove almost all measure of skill from the game. Why are there three separate ults that just . . . make everything invincible? Why are there so many ults that can just instantly wipe a team? That isn't a measure of skill. I understand it's some kind of 'power fantasy' thing like Blizz talked about back in the day. How getting a multi kill by pressing Q keeps the casual folks hooked. But, don't you guys understand that is literally dangling sparkly keys in front of your face at the cost of the health of the game?

The other balance problems can be ironed out with largely numbers. Give Hela some falloff, nerf Hawkeye's one shot ability ect ect, but how do you balance Mantis ult? Either it makes everyone unkillable or it doesn't. The only anti-heal ability in the game is Dr. Strange's ability to screw himself over, so it can't be brought into check by another mechanic. And, just like Ana, if they introduce a character with that ability, they will be must-pick for the next five years while they bring in some other characters who can also do that job.

Ultimate abilities just don't feel good. Younger players might get the endorphins from the multikill popping up, but anyone who's gamed for a time will recognize the lack of skill expression and feel nothing. The entire reason Luna and Mantis are must-plays at the moment is because they have the most reliable way to stop a team-wiping Q from happening. It kills meta innovation. They need to either be removed, or toned so far down that they are basically another utility cd.

I understand the odds of ults being fixed or removed is slim to none, but it would help if the community at least recognized the contributing factor to the balance and meta issues that they are currently wracking the game with. How many characters never get picked above gold simply because their ults suck? The only character with a mid ult I see played at top tier is Namor, but there are other reasons for that.

Whose ults do you think need changed and how would you fix them? Or do you think it's simply not possible to see balanced ults with the framework this game has been built on? I'm curious to hear what others are experiencing.

aint ults supposed to be unbalanced tho? (and most of them can be countered by quite literally running away then running back, ive killed so many jeffs by doing this)