This game has an Ult problem

[The Inkvader]

The ultimate abilities in this game are out of control and remove almost all measure of skill from the game. Why are there three separate ults that just . . . make everything invincible? Why are there so many ults that can just instantly wipe a team? That isn't a measure of skill. I understand it's some kind of 'power fantasy' thing like Blizz talked about back in the day. How getting a multi kill by pressing Q keeps the casual folks hooked. But, don't you guys understand that is literally dangling sparkly keys in front of your face at the cost of the health of the game?

The other balance problems can be ironed out with largely numbers. Give Hela some falloff, nerf Hawkeye's one shot ability ect ect, but how do you balance Mantis ult? Either it makes everyone unkillable or it doesn't. The only anti-heal ability in the game is Dr. Strange's ability to screw himself over, so it can't be brought into check by another mechanic. And, just like Ana, if they introduce a character with that ability, they will be must-pick for the next five years while they bring in some other characters who can also do that job.

Ultimate abilities just don't feel good. Younger players might get the endorphins from the multikill popping up, but anyone who's gamed for a time will recognize the lack of skill expression and feel nothing. The entire reason Luna and Mantis are must-plays at the moment is because they have the most reliable way to stop a team-wiping Q from happening. It kills meta innovation. They need to either be removed, or toned so far down that they are basically another utility cd.

I understand the odds of ults being fixed or removed is slim to none, but it would help if the community at least recognized the contributing factor to the balance and meta issues that they are currently wracking the game with. How many characters never get picked above gold simply because their ults suck? The only character with a mid ult I see played at top tier is Namor, but there are other reasons for that.

Whose ults do you think need changed and how would you fix them? Or do you think it's simply not possible to see balanced ults with the framework this game has been built on? I'm curious to hear what others are experiencing.

[Treedle]

Ults should be strong, but there are definitely a few cases where charge rate or strength need to be looked at. Going against luna/mantis or warlock/mantis and having 8+ sec invulnerability or fight resets cycling every other fight is agony.

[IMinsider]

Escrito originalmente por Tomato 🍅:

Play peni and web your opponents the second they use their ult. Problem solved.

this right here is a simple solution.. and it works in fact... spiderman can do the same thing with web... also its about game sense. while these ults are OP OP its not a guarantee win because either one of these people ult. i dont feel anyone has an IWIN button except these hackers.. they dont need ults or skill just continue to pay for hacks and still lose an get put in bot lobby to L2Play still they refuse. im glad you spoke up and thanks for the correct answer to this LONGGGGGGG winded comment, literally about nothing. go play pac-man at least i think you can understand that game.

THE iKVADER... need basic understanding of the game before you speak

[Ghostvenger92]

Escrito originalmente por The Inkvader:

The ultimate abilities in this game are out of control and remove almost all measure of skill from the game. Why are there three separate ults that just . . . make everything invincible? Why are there so many ults that can just instantly wipe a team? That isn't a measure of skill. I understand it's some kind of 'power fantasy' thing like Blizz talked about back in the day. How getting a multi kill by pressing Q keeps the casual folks hooked. But, don't you guys understand that is literally dangling sparkly keys in front of your face at the cost of the health of the game?

The other balance problems can be ironed out with largely numbers. Give Hela some falloff, nerf Hawkeye's one shot ability ect ect, but how do you balance Mantis ult? Either it makes everyone unkillable or it doesn't. The only anti-heal ability in the game is Dr. Strange's ability to screw himself over, so it can't be brought into check by another mechanic. And, just like Ana, if they introduce a character with that ability, they will be must-pick for the next five years while they bring in some other characters who can also do that job.

Ultimate abilities just don't feel good. Younger players might get the endorphins from the multikill popping up, but anyone who's gamed for a time will recognize the lack of skill expression and feel nothing. The entire reason Luna and Mantis are must-plays at the moment is because they have the most reliable way to stop a team-wiping Q from happening. It kills meta innovation. They need to either be removed, or toned so far down that they are basically another utility cd.

I understand the odds of ults being fixed or removed is slim to none, but it would help if the community at least recognized the contributing factor to the balance and meta issues that they are currently wracking the game with. How many characters never get picked above gold simply because their ults suck? The only character with a mid ult I see played at top tier is Namor, but there are other reasons for that.

Whose ults do you think need changed and how would you fix them? Or do you think it's simply not possible to see balanced ults with the framework this game has been built on? I'm curious to hear what others are experiencing.

because it takes a long time to generate the ULT thats why

[Ferrsai]

Escrito originalmente por The Inkvader:

The ultimate abilities in this game are out of control and remove almost all measure of skill from the game. Why are there three separate ults that just . . . make everything invincible? Why are there so many ults that can just instantly wipe a team? That isn't a measure of skill. I understand it's some kind of 'power fantasy' thing like Blizz talked about back in the day. How getting a multi kill by pressing Q keeps the casual folks hooked. But, don't you guys understand that is literally dangling sparkly keys in front of your face at the cost of the health of the game?

The other balance problems can be ironed out with largely numbers. Give Hela some falloff, nerf Hawkeye's one shot ability ect ect, but how do you balance Mantis ult? Either it makes everyone unkillable or it doesn't. The only anti-heal ability in the game is Dr. Strange's ability to screw himself over, so it can't be brought into check by another mechanic. And, just like Ana, if they introduce a character with that ability, they will be must-pick for the next five years while they bring in some other characters who can also do that job.

Ultimate abilities just don't feel good. Younger players might get the endorphins from the multikill popping up, but anyone who's gamed for a time will recognize the lack of skill expression and feel nothing. The entire reason Luna and Mantis are must-plays at the moment is because they have the most reliable way to stop a team-wiping Q from happening. It kills meta innovation. They need to either be removed, or toned so far down that they are basically another utility cd.

I understand the odds of ults being fixed or removed is slim to none, but it would help if the community at least recognized the contributing factor to the balance and meta issues that they are currently wracking the game with. How many characters never get picked above gold simply because their ults suck? The only character with a mid ult I see played at top tier is Namor, but there are other reasons for that.

Whose ults do you think need changed and how would you fix them? Or do you think it's simply not possible to see balanced ults with the framework this game has been built on? I'm curious to hear what others are experiencing.

This genre needs to get rid of the concept of an ultimate. In this franchise, the "ultimate" should be some iconic action they've done in the lore and the majority of them should be potentially damage enabling, or advantage enabling, but not damage dealing. They should open a moment of opportunity or provide 15-20 second personal buffs, depending on the role. Like a duelist might rage and get damage reduction, increased mobility, projectile penetration for 'x' shots or 'x' seconds. Just stuff that would give you an edge, but not guarantee anything. I'm not even sure they should be performance based, they should just be long cooldowns that you don't want to burn willy nilly or are part of a rotation, and escape tool or engagement tool.

Instant "I win" buttons are terrible and pretty much trump other layers of the game, like mechanical skill, smart positioning and game sense.

[Kami]

Escrito originalmente por Ðëprávèd•Mïšçréånt:

Escrito originalmente por The Inkvader:

Iron Man is absolutely not picked up regularly at top tiers of play. Really? With Hela and Bucky as strong as they are, why would he ever be picked? And you get so close to understanding the issues with the support comment. There are currently only 2 supports that can protect their team from the majority of ults (If you don't count Adam just reviving everyone after they die a counter) and picking anyone other than those 2 supports severely decreases your odds of winning.

People RAGE if you don't pick Luna and Mantis to support. If you're planning to take Rocket into Plat and higher you better pre-mute VC.

Also, saying 'if you don't like it leave' on a game you care about is absolutely wild. Rivals has already lost over 25% of the playerbase after TWO WEEKS. 10-15% is expected as people just try it out and find they aren't interested, but a quarter of all players? Don't tell people to leave! Encourage people to suggest solutions and to find new ways to play!

What about the people that enjoy the game exactly how it is, they need to now conform to how you think the game should be?

.

There's a middle ground you have to look at both sides as a developer if they say no it's perfect and only listen to the positive they never make a better game I think it's really good feels better the others who attempted this style I think you could change ult generation as a Total maybe scale down like 1/3 to start see how it feels if it feels good then you can go and tune per character and by year 2 I think you could have a healthy player base of both casual people who just play cause it's fun and a good competitive scene

[Hybrid]

I 100% agree. Some ults just feels like an easy way out, a very high reward with no risk or effort at all. Ults are supposed to be game changers in a sense but but doesn't mean it needs to break the game, even being ults they should demand a smart move, like where or when to ult, not just mindlessly press a button and kill everyone.
Luna Snow, Hela, Star Lord. Mantis, Psylocke, Jeff, Spider Man are some characters that I think that should have their ults nerfed at least a little, they are absurd and game breaking. I'm a Luna main btw, and I can still see that her ult is not balanced at all.
But like you said, I doubt they will change much cause there's really a connection between these low risk high reward moves that appeals more to casual people, creates an illusion of power that make them addicted to the game. Meanwhile the game gets more and more unfair and broken...

[The Inkvader]

Escrito originalmente por Hybrid:

I 100% agree. Some ults just feels like an easy way out, a very high reward with no risk or effort at all. Ults are supposed to be game changers in a sense but but doesn't mean it needs to break the game, even being ults they should demand a smart move, like where or when to ult, not just mindlessly press a button and kill everyone.
Luna Snow, Hela, Star Lord. Mantis, Psylocke, Jeff, Spider Man are some characters that I think that should have their ults nerfed at least a little, they are absurd and game breaking. I'm a Luna main btw, and I can still see that her ult is not balanced at all.
But like you said, I doubt they will change much cause there's really a connection between these low risk high reward moves that appeals more to casual people, creates an illusion of power that make them addicted to the game. Meanwhile the game gets more and more unfair and broken...

I agree with that list other than Spider Man. Although the rest of his kit can be quite annoying, his ult's range is not overly large, he can be stunned out of it, and he can be killed out of it rather easily as he loses his mobility while it is in use. I'm not sure what the actual dps on the ult is, but if you're healing someone in it, you buy quite a lot of time for them to get out of range or kill spider man.

Jeff is extremely annoying but, thankfully, teams are learning how to counter. I see more and more people anticipate it, splitting, and then killing him one he's swallowed whoever before he can make it to the edge of the map. However, I would like to see some more of an indicator of when he is using it. He disappears even before the sound for the ult plays, so perhaps have an animation of him leaping out of the ground towards his target instead. He doesn't have to be targetable during the leap, but it would be a nice visual indicator of what he's doing so you're not relying purely on anticipation.

Luna and Mantis are a hard yes. Something has to be done about their ults, especially with how quickly they build them. If you are facing both on the same team it feels like one or the other is up for every single fight.

They just need to make it to where if Hela's ult's healthbar is depleted then she dies.

Psylock and Starlord I also agree with. If Psylock drops the ult right on top of you and you aren't playing an exceptionally mobile character you are just dead. There's no stunning or killing her out of it like Spiderman so you're just hoping Luna ults to save you or you're taking a trip back to spawn. No idea how to fix it, honestly. Same with Starlord, it's the flying that puts the aimbot over the edge, but it's baked into his kit and wouldn't make any sense to remove that part of it, so I don't know how you fix that either.

[Dungledoo]

Bro's heard "LE-GEN-DARY" one too many times playing Rocket and snapped. It's over bros

[PVT.Blueberry]

ult shouldnt carry over in QP and it should be slower for the more op ults= problem solved

[Dylan]

i agree with you. i think ults SHOULD be strong but not strong in the sense that just pressing the button immediately generates value. there should be skill in using an ult. if you've played overwatch, i think there should be more ults similar to genji, sojourn, ana, etc in that it's on the player to actually get value out of them. rather than press Q and turn off brain like psylocke, spider man, luna, etc.

[Joikax]

Escrito originalmente por Dylan:

i agree with you. i think ults SHOULD be strong but not strong in the sense that just pressing the button immediately generates value. there should be skill in using an ult. if you've played overwatch, i think there should be more ults similar to genji, sojourn, ana, etc in that it's on the player to actually get value out of them. rather than press Q and turn off brain like psylocke, spider man, luna, etc.

Genji's ult (and general kit) is the epitome of mash buttons to win. Why do you think there's threads complaining about him every year?
Ana's is literally a fire-and-forget InstantHeal/DamageReduction/DamageBuff button that doesn't even need to be aimed.

What you're talking about is getting the most out of those ult windows but the ults themselves are stupidly easy to get value out of even in a moment of panic. Skillceiling =/= Skillfloor.

[Dylan]

Escrito originalmente por Joikax:

Escrito originalmente por Dylan:

i agree with you. i think ults SHOULD be strong but not strong in the sense that just pressing the button immediately generates value. there should be skill in using an ult. if you've played overwatch, i think there should be more ults similar to genji, sojourn, ana, etc in that it's on the player to actually get value out of them. rather than press Q and turn off brain like psylocke, spider man, luna, etc.

Genji's ult (and general kit) is the epitome of mash buttons to win. Why do you think there's threads complaining about him every year?
Ana's is literally a fire-and-forget InstantHeal/DamageReduction/DamageBuff button that doesn't even need to be aimed.

What you're talking about is getting the most out of those ult windows but the ults themselves are stupidly easy to get value out of even in a moment of panic. Skillceiling =/= Skillfloor.

genji is probably the farthest hero from mash to win bruh. there are so many ways to counter a genji ult and make him useless. baptiste ult was probably a better example for me to use for a high skill ult anyway. either way, i think overwatch ults generally require more skill to use than marvel rivals. do you agree or no? because that was my main point though i might have buried the lead. there are a lot of ults in MR that are very simple and lack skill expression, like iron man, magneto, luna, psylocke, spider man, storm. i wish MR had more ults like hulk, magik, panther, c&d, strange, etc

[Dungledoo]

Escrito originalmente por Dylan:

...that are very simple and lack skill expression, like iron man, magneto, luna, psylocke, spider man, storm. i wish MR had more ults like hulk, magik, panther, c&d, strange, etc

Luna, Iron Man and Storm for sure, but those other three definitely have some room for skill.

Magneto: Absorbs all incoming damage, can be used to counter other ults like Iron Man or Winter Soldier, and if you don't immediately use it you can have 8 seconds of invulnerability with flight. Issue is, you can be shot out of it with enough damage like Punisher can put out with his ult. If you're using it to dunk on a single support (guilty as charged, funny AF) you're using it wrong.

Psylock: Great ult at first glance, but is fooled by turrets; a single Loki and Peni can completely negate her ult with proper spacing. Otherwise the slow move speed is not good enough to keep up with heroes with movement abilities who book it. You gotta place it right to be worth it, and if you dive tanks with it you're probably not getting a kill if you're not lucky.

Spider Man: Hard ult to use, while the hard CC and damage is really good, the range is short and can be countered pretty easy as seen above.

I'm honestly surprised Hela didn't make the list considering her ult is flying into the air and treating the enemy team like redheaded stepchildren with the hands she throws.

[Кот в сапогах]

I don't agree with the main ''problem'' that is described here, but I agree that 3 support ultimates are just invulnerability in different wrappers. Like... it's pretty boring

[Cabezaun]

I mean, skill issue, there are no ult that auto target you, get better positioning or just counter it as much as you can