This game has an Ult problem

[The Inkvader]

The ultimate abilities in this game are out of control and remove almost all measure of skill from the game. Why are there three separate ults that just . . . make everything invincible? Why are there so many ults that can just instantly wipe a team? That isn't a measure of skill. I understand it's some kind of 'power fantasy' thing like Blizz talked about back in the day. How getting a multi kill by pressing Q keeps the casual folks hooked. But, don't you guys understand that is literally dangling sparkly keys in front of your face at the cost of the health of the game?

The other balance problems can be ironed out with largely numbers. Give Hela some falloff, nerf Hawkeye's one shot ability ect ect, but how do you balance Mantis ult? Either it makes everyone unkillable or it doesn't. The only anti-heal ability in the game is Dr. Strange's ability to screw himself over, so it can't be brought into check by another mechanic. And, just like Ana, if they introduce a character with that ability, they will be must-pick for the next five years while they bring in some other characters who can also do that job.

Ultimate abilities just don't feel good. Younger players might get the endorphins from the multikill popping up, but anyone who's gamed for a time will recognize the lack of skill expression and feel nothing. The entire reason Luna and Mantis are must-plays at the moment is because they have the most reliable way to stop a team-wiping Q from happening. It kills meta innovation. They need to either be removed, or toned so far down that they are basically another utility cd.

I understand the odds of ults being fixed or removed is slim to none, but it would help if the community at least recognized the contributing factor to the balance and meta issues that they are currently wracking the game with. How many characters never get picked above gold simply because their ults suck? The only character with a mid ult I see played at top tier is Namor, but there are other reasons for that.

Whose ults do you think need changed and how would you fix them? Or do you think it's simply not possible to see balanced ults with the framework this game has been built on? I'm curious to hear what others are experiencing.

[SavRoyale]

Don't even need to read.

Ultimates are supposed to turn the Game.

[zghaun]

They can be countered with another ult and there it does not kill meta innovation since you'd change your play style around it. Toning it down just removes options from players

[id795078477]

Every ultimate has a counter-play. By counter-play I mean something easier to employ than the thing you're trying to counter.

And since there are so many DPS and they almost all have high-damaging ults, you guess it = supports need to have means to protect their teams. But support ults also aren't end-all, be-all. There's a reason Iron Man is picked up at the highest tiers of play - despite his "C/D-tier" in many tier-lists.

If your idea of balance is having every sharp edge chiseled away, then I have good news for you = such a game already exists. It's called Overwatch (2?). What Rivals have is the state where they try to balance OP things with OP things. It will probably never be completely balanced, but it for sure will always be way more fun than the game of averages.

[Ðëprávèd•Mïšçréånt]

Show me on the Doll Where the bad Ult touched you

[The Inkvader]

Originally posted by id795078477:

Every ultimate has a counter-play. By counter-play I mean something easier to employ than the thing you're trying to counter.

And since there are so many DPS and they almost all have high-damaging ults, you guess it = supports need to have means to protect their teams. But support ults also aren't end-all, be-all. There's a reason Iron Man is picked up at the highest tiers of play - despite his "C/D-tier" in many tier-lists.

If your idea of balance is having every sharp edge chiseled away, then I have good news for you = such a game already exists. It's called Overwatch (2?). What Rivals have is the state where they try to balance OP things with OP things. It will probably never be completely balanced, but it for sure will always be way more fun than the game of averages.

Iron Man is absolutely not picked up regularly at top tiers of play. Really? With Hela and Bucky as strong as they are, why would he ever be picked? And you get so close to understanding the issues with the support comment. There are currently only 2 supports that can protect their team from the majority of ults (If you don't count Adam just reviving everyone after they die a counter) and picking anyone other than those 2 supports severely decreases your odds of winning.

People RAGE if you don't pick Luna and Mantis to support. If you're planning to take Rocket into Plat and higher you better pre-mute VC.

Also, saying 'if you don't like it leave' on a game you care about is absolutely wild. Rivals has already lost over 25% of the playerbase after TWO WEEKS. 10-15% is expected as people just try it out and find they aren't interested, but a quarter of all players? Don't tell people to leave! Encourage people to suggest solutions and to find new ways to play!

[Kyutaru]

There aren't three ults that make everything invincible.

Have a look at the stats and powers here:

https://www.marvelrivals.com/heroes/index.html

You'll see Luna's ult provides no invincibility, only 250 healing per second. Mantis is a similar heal over time effect. This might make them FUNCTIONALLY immortal under an uncoordinated assault but plenty of other ults or even duo team-ups can destroy them faster than Luna can heal them. During this ult, it's best you stop attacking the Vanguard and work with a teammate to attack a squishier target -- including Luna herself. I've almost died many times the few times I've tried Luna while using her ult but then the enemy team just stopped attacking me together and I recovered.

Even Captain America's ult only gives bonus health per second. It's enough that a healer or vanguard probably can't overcome it but multiple allies attacking the same target will still take it down faster than he can boost them.

[OMEGA]

Originally posted by The Inkvader:

Originally posted by id795078477:

Every ultimate has a counter-play. By counter-play I mean something easier to employ than the thing you're trying to counter.

And since there are so many DPS and they almost all have high-damaging ults, you guess it = supports need to have means to protect their teams. But support ults also aren't end-all, be-all. There's a reason Iron Man is picked up at the highest tiers of play - despite his "C/D-tier" in many tier-lists.

If your idea of balance is having every sharp edge chiseled away, then I have good news for you = such a game already exists. It's called Overwatch (2?). What Rivals have is the state where they try to balance OP things with OP things. It will probably never be completely balanced, but it for sure will always be way more fun than the game of averages.

Iron Man is absolutely not picked up regularly at top tiers of play. Really? With Hela and Bucky as strong as they are, why would he ever be picked? And you get so close to understanding the issues with the support comment. There are currently only 2 supports that can protect their team from the majority of ults (If you don't count Adam just reviving everyone after they die a counter) and picking anyone other than those 2 supports severely decreases your odds of winning.

People RAGE if you don't pick Luna and Mantis to support. If you're planning to take Rocket into Plat and higher you better pre-mute VC.

Also, saying 'if you don't like it leave' on a game you care about is absolutely wild. Rivals has already lost over 25% of the playerbase after TWO WEEKS. 10-15% is expected as people just try it out and find they aren't interested, but a quarter of all players? Don't tell people to leave! Encourage people to suggest solutions and to find new ways to play!

hela is almost always banned and at one point an iron man main was rank 1 they are around rank 4 now

[Ðëprávèd•Mïšçréånt]

Originally posted by The Inkvader:

Originally posted by id795078477:

Every ultimate has a counter-play. By counter-play I mean something easier to employ than the thing you're trying to counter.

And since there are so many DPS and they almost all have high-damaging ults, you guess it = supports need to have means to protect their teams. But support ults also aren't end-all, be-all. There's a reason Iron Man is picked up at the highest tiers of play - despite his "C/D-tier" in many tier-lists.

If your idea of balance is having every sharp edge chiseled away, then I have good news for you = such a game already exists. It's called Overwatch (2?). What Rivals have is the state where they try to balance OP things with OP things. It will probably never be completely balanced, but it for sure will always be way more fun than the game of averages.

Iron Man is absolutely not picked up regularly at top tiers of play. Really? With Hela and Bucky as strong as they are, why would he ever be picked? And you get so close to understanding the issues with the support comment. There are currently only 2 supports that can protect their team from the majority of ults (If you don't count Adam just reviving everyone after they die a counter) and picking anyone other than those 2 supports severely decreases your odds of winning.

People RAGE if you don't pick Luna and Mantis to support. If you're planning to take Rocket into Plat and higher you better pre-mute VC.

Also, saying 'if you don't like it leave' on a game you care about is absolutely wild. Rivals has already lost over 25% of the playerbase after TWO WEEKS. 10-15% is expected as people just try it out and find they aren't interested, but a quarter of all players? Don't tell people to leave! Encourage people to suggest solutions and to find new ways to play!

What about the people that enjoy the game exactly how it is, they need to now conform to how you think the game should be?

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by The Inkvader:

Iron Man is absolutely not picked up regularly at top tiers of play. Really? With Hela and Bucky as strong as they are, why would he ever be picked?

Cause he's high end and with a ludicrous skill ceiling. Not long ago, the 2nd place guy on the leaderboard mained Iron Man and had Hela as his 2nd most played, yet Iron Man had better stats by about 25% margin. Not in game to check his ranking rn but he and other top players definitely use this character effectively, not like the noob teams that get shot up because they try to operate him as a stationary flying sniper. He's all about mobility and requires someone who can keep up with his speed. Hela is easier to play by far but easy doesn't mean best.

[Skunk]

That number one ranked Iron Man plays with a duo Hulk who gives him a damage boost, plus he doesn't have to worry about Hawkeye or Hela because they're banned.

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Skunk:

That number one ranked Iron Man plays with a duo Hulk who gives him a damage boost, plus he doesn't have to worry about Hawkeye or Hela because they're banned.

If that's what it takes to make Iron Man the king of the hill, then that's what you do. Everyone's banning those two anyway, makes sense to main the third best who would ordinarily fear them. IQ 200. He terrorizes with that setup.

[Archonis]

My only critique is how long they take to generate. In my opinion some are waaaaay to fast and are very powerful, but others are much slower and aren't that game changing. Just a lil more DPS or some utility.

[The Inkvader]

Originally posted by Archonis:

My only critique is how long they take to generate. In my opinion some are waaaaay to fast and are very powerful, but others are much slower and aren't that game changing. Just a lil more DPS or some utility.

That could be a good point. If Luna and Mantis weren't getting their ult every 2 minutes with healing contributing so much to it maybe it wouldn't feel as oppressive.

[bazinga]

Play peni and web your opponents the second they use their ult. Problem solved.

[Kami]

I'm fine with them being strong and being game turning mechanics but I don't think they should be up so often honestly I think all they need to do is up the cool downs so that you only get like 1 a round maybe 2 if it's a really long one so that they are saved and used as tactical pieces but I played a game today where a psylocke used her ult 5 times in one round and that's just not fun it's so excessive and there's nothing you can do to stop it then it just becomes ult spam after ult spam like I don't ever remember this being a issue in overwatch like at most I saw maybe 3 ults from one person in a round and if you are popping off and that's the reason you got 3 that's fine I can accept that it's my fault for not slowing you down