Black Widow and Hawkeye

[Spencer]

We really need to talk about these two characters, and how far away they are from each-other in terms of mechanics even though they are essentially the same archetype, just with different weapons.

Black Widow - You need to scope, aim and focus on headshots. You also need to focus on headshotting supports. You might have to use up a whole clip of your sniper rifle just to get one kill. You can't miss shots or you will just be useless.

Hawkeye - Projectile aiming, you don't need to scope, you also don't even need to land all your shots. One arrow equals one kill, doesn't matter if it's a headshot since body shots are also one shots. (Correct me if I'm wrong?) You can miss your whole quiver, but land one arrow and you get a kill. Confirmed kill. You can effectively spam all your arrows in one path, and you will get a kill. Somehow. Arrows are stronger than sniper rifle bullets apparently.


The problem I see here is: What's the point of playing Black Widow if one can just play Hawkeye? Hawkeye needs either a slight nerf on his projectiles (maybe not make them so fast?) or a damage nerf. Black Widow needs either a damage boost or faster animation to scope in and out. Something needs to give because right now, Hawkeye has a lot of pros and not a lot of cons. He's probably the busted character of this season but I digress.

[MasterionX]

Originally posted by Spencer:

The problem I see here is: What's the point of playing Black Widow if one can just play Hawkeye?

If there's already Hawkeye on your team - you'll be getting his ult as a regular ability. Also, you'll be passively giving him a damage boost.

So there's that.

[Terotrous]

Honestly, the Hawkeye / Black Widow teamup is really bad. Not because the ability is bad, it's actually pretty good, but because the characters are too similar and thus share a lot of the same weaknesses. BW generally being considered the worst overall character in the game also certainly doesn't help.

[Cursememe]

Originally posted by MasterionX:

Originally posted by Spencer:

The problem I see here is: What's the point of playing Black Widow if one can just play Hawkeye?

If there's already Hawkeye on your team - you'll be getting his ult as a regular ability. Also, you'll be passively giving him a damage boost.

So there's that.

You forget that the seasonal bonus is there by defualt, team-up does not have to be active,
thats why hela can consistently headshot bodyshot squishes to kill even without thor or loki but once the seasonal bonus got nerfed she cant do it anymore

The bonuses stats are given to them for basically just existing

[Gatita Tiernita]

The problem with Black Widow is her freaking fire rate is so low. It's nearly impossible to get a kill before enemy supports heal whatever you are shooting at. She's also quite vulnerable because divers will target her and her kick combo is not very reliable. So many times I kick and stun someone trying to dive me only for my Widow to start reloading her gun and I get killed. They NEED to drop the reloading after every shot at least for hip-fire. It's absolutely ridiculous that she has to reload every single hip-fire shot on top of her scoped shots. Hawkeye is just so much better that it's pointless to even pick her.

[Nostalgic-Heretic]

Black Window offers more maneuverability and close quarters combat options. If you want max possible damage Pick Hawkeye. If you want to have a slightly less powerful hawkeye but more chances of survival pick Widow.

[IsthisKosher]

Originally posted by Nostalgic-Heretic:

Black Window offers more maneuverability and close quarters combat options. If you want max possible damage Pick Hawkeye. If you want to have a slightly less powerful hawkeye but more chances of survival pick Widow.

Her movement only makes her slightly faster and has stamina, while most characters can catch up to her without breaking a sweat. And her melee options are worthless outside of a knockback kick with a long cooldown, which is actively worse than hawkeye's escape ability.

[id795078477]

There is no point in playing Widow. Everything she does - someone else does better. In S1 they buffed her.. kicks? And sprint? Okay?

- If you want a sniper, play Hawkeye. As you noted it, OP - the most important thing, the OHK - is what sniper is being picked for. Not kicks, not running.
- If you want good "kicks" - play a melee hero, like Magic
- If you want good "running" (aka mobility) - play Panther
- If you want good ranged DPS - play Hela, she needs exactly the same: headshot + body-shot on a target to get the job done

They can either fix Hawkeye or fix Widow. Just as with Widow, Hawkeye got changes in S1, just not the right ones. Like - okay, he can't OHK across the map now, good. But that's fixing a gimmick, not addressing the design. He's still the same. And so is Widow whom he denies pick slot just by existing.

[MasterionX]

Originally posted by Cursememe:

You forget that the seasonal bonus is there by defualt, team-up does not have to be active,
thats why hela can consistently headshot bodyshot squishes to kill even without thor or loki but once the seasonal bonus got nerfed she cant do it anymore

The bonuses stats are given to them for basically just existing

For both Hawkeye and Hela it's Team-Up Bonuses, you can read it right in the abilities description.

[=][=Alduran=][=]

I like Black Widow very much. Because she gets underestimated quite often. I can reliably kill mid tier divers on my own. The only divers I can properly deal with are Spiderman and Iron Fist. Others I can disengage with kick stun and sprinting away. You should also reposition constantly after one or two shots.

Following combo has proven to be very good:
Optimal Combo(diver spotted):
Shot hit(aproaching diver) > kick(stun) > shot hit(try for Headshot aiming for the throat region) > followup kick(grappling Hook) > batton Combo.
Suboptimal Combo(getting suprised):
Kick(stun) > shot(head) > followup kick > batton Combo.

If you know you can't get away from a diver you can use your sprint jump on melee divers to get above them. Sometimes they get disoriented and you get some free hits in.