Scary to see the same mistakes before the game has released. (Snipers)

[AceBentura]

Many ability based team shooters die due to snipers being boring to play against and, generally, uncontestable. They maintain a completely unfair advantage when faced with similar skill-level players.

You need to close the distance unseen (By an entire team), avoid the upclose 1 shot, then actually score the kill before they can get away. Something that has long since proven to be an insurmountable odd.

It ruined Team Fortress - It ruined Paladins - It ruined Overwatch - Now the game hasn't even released, and Hawkeye and Black Widow are, once again, giving off those same vibes.


The devs say that they're balanced because of mobility. Overwatch literally has an invisible flank character that disabled abilities for 5 seconds... An immortal Ball... and a hero with 3 long distance gap closers and the snipers STILL CONTROLLED EVERY LOBBY THAT THEY WERE SELECTED IN.


Do not let snipers ruin this game. Remove them before it even begins. They will, eventually, ruin this game too. I've already lost playmates because they "Can't be bothered to invest time in a game with a sniper again, just pointless, it'll end up boring".

[CHOPPED HOG]

I can’t think of a multiplayer shooter that doesn’t have snipers… get over it.

[ClawedFury]

Then sniper mains will complain and be on here making a similar argument about gap closers. The problem with any game is you CAN'T make EVERYONE happy. Hopefully with a really good MMR, Ranking system and buffs/nerfs over time, enough balance will be brought in to appease 80% of the player base. Those you can't please beyond that will more than likely be those who lack skill/ aim, map knowledge/awareness, and ultimately terrible at these types of games and should probably stick to VR Chat or fishing planet. XD

[AceBentura]

Postat inițial de ClawedFury:

Then sniper mains will complain

So? Let them complain. The game will actually be fun without snipers in the lobby making it boring.

"Those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

History shows that snipers lead to games being unplayable. It's good business sense to exclude them, or make them next to unselectable due to weakness.
There are many examples. Your notion of "You can't please everyone", is true. But a quick look at the scope of the games that have died because of snipers should tell you it's probably better to cater to the 95% that hates them, rather than the 5% that likes them. You'll, ultimately, be far more successful with the 95.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

a lack of awareness to not knowing where snipers and campers will be is a player issue..

Not a game issue..

sounds like you don't know how to juke the scope

[TsubasaYozora]

Iron fist. psyclocke seem to do melee to counter snipers?

[espresso depresso]

So it's been confirmed that Black Widow CANNOT one shot anyone if they are full hp, so it's not as bad as you think. And yeah hawkeye can oneshot but he has the charge mechanic so while hanzo can just spam into a choke and one tap people, hawkeye has to wait and aim. I suppose we'll see how broken it is but this is already better than overwatch.

[ClawedFury]

So history proves many can't work around snipers. MAP KNOWLEDGE is the KEY to defeating Snipers. And we're playing with superheroes here. As long as you have comms and timed ability use I doubt sniping will be an issue to play against. This game isn't just going to be dying to a sniper. A lot of dying and not dying is going to come down to decisions. (movement and when to use abilities) The team aspect of working together will be main. I just got through with 100 hours in Supervive, and that's how I see fights get won or lost. Same with Valorant. (insert Jett's dash)

[P.Diddy's Baby Oil]

widow looks problematic to me, less so hawkeye but hard to say without getting to use him. hawkeye has to be aiming at someone to build up charge, can't just charge into the air, and may not be hitscan? not sure about hitscan. widow on the other hand looks like she may break the game or usher in sniper metas where the team with the best widow wins...not good.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Postat inițial de espresso depresso:

So it's been confirmed that Black Widow CANNOT one shot anyone if they are full hp, so it's not as bad as you think. And yeah hawkeye can oneshot but he has the charge mechanic so while hanzo can just spam into a choke and one tap people, hawkeye has to wait and aim. I suppose we'll see how broken it is but this is already better than overwatch.

sounds like its got good team mechanics for healing and takes skill to get one shots.
An aim bot with hawkeye would be worry some but would be instantly detected..

[Jones]

Postat inițial de ClawedFury:

MAP KNOWLEDGE is the KEY to defeating Snipers

Unless the point is in a wide open area with no cover. Developers often fail at making enough cover.

[AceBentura]

Postat inițial de ClawedFury:

So history proves many can't work around snipers. MAP KNOWLEDGE is the KEY to defeating Snipers.

And yet, the "top" of the ladder, and the actual professional gameplay was routinely built around snipers. If they're so easy to counter, so easy to play against, so easy to "outknowledge" why did they dominate the top tier of every game?

As the original post states, a similarly skill-levelled sniper has every single advantage. "Melee heroes" do not "counter" snipers. The sniper has the advantage, you need to actually get to the sniper, which means being undetected by an entire team, praying the team fight isn't already over by the time you get there (Which, again, the sniper dictates), whilst avoiding every possible sight line (Again, which the sniper dictates), hoping that no support player is actually aware and will assist, hoping that no teammate is aware and will assist, etc. And, even given ALL OF THAT, the sniper flicks, headshots you, and you either die or be killed immediately afterwards by any followup damage. So even when you're right there, it's still a 50/50.

Snipers present an extremely unfair advantage in every scenario. They have ruined every single game that they're available to be played in. Defending them is just foolish at this point.


Even in a FULL DIVE META, with 6 heroes capable of diving a sniper, Overwatch League still saw sniper play. That's 6 heroes to specifically counter 1/2 heroes, and those heroes were still played in those lobbies. You're simply delusional if you think that snipers are counterabl;e by a single player or single hero.


They ROUTINELY lock out immediately half of the hero roster in every single game from even being viable for selection (Too immobile, too squishy, no offensive challenge capabilities to a long ranged hitscan/sniper)... They immediately lock out 75% of every map that they get selected in (Can't peek, can't brawl in the open, can't play rush, can't dictate pace or take fights on your terms due to the uncontestable server admin stationed somewhere miles away that could end the fight before it even begins).
There is a video online of a Widowmaker (Overwatch) being in the lobby and NEVER EVEN FIRING A SHOT in the lobby after their first kill and seeing how the other team hero swaps and has to play the map just because the sniper exists in the lobby is pathetic. They ruin every game. Every - single - one.

[Rompersmash]

The characters in this game are so mobile that snipers wont really stand a chance to be honest. Characters like Spider-man and Venom will be on them in seconds. Its not really fair to compare OW to this game.

[SIEGE CREEP (DEADLOCK)]

I dont think it will ruin the game but snipers should just disappear from these types of games. Theyre horrible game design and completely unfun to interact with

[Mikedot]

So you want them to remove a character that the developers spent years working on, because some players may not like the playstyle of said character. Yeah... Maybe you should just forego playing this game entirely if sniper characters a going to bother you that much.

Black Widow and Hawkeye isn't even as deadly as Widowmaker or Hanzo from OW or any other FPS game because they can't one-tap kill any opponents. And with how fast characters move in this game, landing your shots is going to take a hefty amount of skill or dumb luck. Shroud was seeing playing the game yesterday with Black Widow and he was struggling at many points during his matches to land his shots.

[男童加V]

好玩诶这个