I wish this game would get a remake

[King DaMuncha]

Summoner is by far the best story of any game I ever played, but its so old now. This game could do with a modern remake

[Veeshan]

But what do you mean by remake? Better textures, higher frame-rate, etcetera? Or a full reimagining?

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by Veeshan:

But what do you mean by remake? Better textures, higher frame-rate, etcetera? Or a full reimagining?

This is a pertinent question because much of the time when a remake is advocated, what is really meant is a totally different game.

They start out asking for it to work on Modern computers at appropriate resolution, and then suddenly they're asking to revamp the entire combat system, for the enemies die quicker then give better Loot and require action combat instead of RPG combat, Etc.

So if you're looking to turn this game into a Diablo remix with a Summoner skin, I don't want you anywhere near my remake. ;)

[King DaMuncha]

a re-make as in make the game again with current technology. graphics, sound, animations, etc and a more responsive combat system. WIth the same same story.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by King DaMuncha:

a re-make as in make the game again with current technology. graphics, sound, animations, etc and a more responsive combat system. WIth the same same story.

Sounds great! I have a minor issue with the word responsive though. I've actually seen someone sneak in a huge revamp to the combat system with that specific word.

So what exactly do you mean by responsive? Responsive to the focus, reaction speed, and precision of the user input? Because that would move the game away from RPG gameplay toward action gameplay. That would constitute a large change to the design of the game.

To clarify, you are of course free to prefer whatever combat system you wish, I just prefer to stick with the original design in this case.

[King DaMuncha]

Well at the moment the characters stand in one spot and you just press the chain key. If you want to do a special attack you have to press one of the 4 buttons on the keyboard and hold it. How about the combat having more flow to it animation wise and have to correctly time each attack button press. Only being able to use certain attacks after certain combinations of attacks have been performed in the chain, or when the enemy performs its attack, being able to counter it. Responding to what the enemy is doing or them responding to what you are doing.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by King DaMuncha:

Well at the moment the characters stand in one spot and you just press the chain key. If you want to do a special attack you have to press one of the 4 buttons on the keyboard and hold it. How about the combat having more flow to it animation wise and have to correctly time each attack button press. Only being able to use certain attacks after certain combinations of attacks have been performed in the chain, or when the enemy performs its attack, being able to counter it. Responding to what the enemy is doing or them responding to what you are doing.

I've little issue with improving the animations a bit, make them flow between smoother and into and out of an idle animation etc.

As for standing around I've nothing against that, I've loved games where even animation was a luxury, forget about literal movement :)

On the button pressing and response stuff, I'm pretty sure all that is already how it works? Pretty sure certain chains only happen under certain conditions and you have opportunities to deflect blows and it requires timing. Though I must admit I rarely pay attention to the combo system, I just click when it tells me to and hope for the best.

As long as the APM requirement and TTK remain in RPG territory I'll be your demon boy.

[Retromancer_Rackham]

If a reboot was done I would personally keep the story and spirit of the game but replace the assets and engine entirely not just replace textures and audio etc. drag it kicking and screaming into the modern age.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by Rackham:

If a reboot was done I would personally keep the story and spirit of the game but replace the assets and engine entirely not just replace textures and audio etc. drag it kicking and screaming into the modern age.

In keeping with this thread, I must challenge your implication. One of the core components of the spirit of this game, from my perspective, is the pace and engagement level of the combat. I like Final Fantasy games which are turn based or close. I like my action RPGs, such as Summoner, to be very close to that level of combat engagement. Would your modern reimagining require speeding up the combat? Or making it take more Focus, reaction time, or precision? That would move further from the spirit, in my eyes. I might as well go play any Diablo clone I choose, out of the dozens available.

[Woolfe]

To be fair I only checked Nexus mods, but there doesn't seem to be any mod support for this. Would be amazing with up-scaled resolution etc

[Mori Riden]

I played on the original playstation and PC versions and was going to offer my input but after reading Veeshan's response to every post, I am not going to bother. It seems he/she is looking to stoke the fire and try to start a heated argument.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by The Inquisitor:

I played on the original playstation and PC versions and was going to offer my input but after reading Veeshan's response to every post, I am not going to bother. It seems he/she is looking to stoke the fire and try to start a heated argument.

😇

Trying to start a debate, yes. Argument, no. Although insults aren't *unfun* to craft.

This is an extremely slow moving forum, so my responding to every post isn't as much a signal about my desire to debate/enflame as it would normally be.

But yes, I'm vehement about this subject. I've been suffering the loss of specific types of gameplay lately, even going so far as to make a video about it, so it's on my mind. And this is a gem of my childhood, and so gets attention.

Also there are regular and serious trolls coming here, see the threadnaut.*

But I'll be happy to give your words a pass, if you wish.

*Oops, that's the Morrowind forum, nm.

[Rattle&Hum]

Unfortunately I don't think this game would be suitable for a remake/remaster. Modern trends would take hold and override what the original game was. As mentioned it would be the combat that would take the biggest hit; either becoming, as mentioned above, either a Diablo-esc style or more action orientated. I liked the combat system and the closest I have seen to as an "upgrade" would be Witcher 1. Same kind of rhythm based combat but with a more "cinematic" flourish to it. But that game get tanked for it's combat too!

So sticking with the spirit of the thread and yet going off on a tangent I would suggest a Summoner 3. But done like what 2 was to 1.

2 has an obscene colour palette (compared to 1), different combat system and a complete new cast of characters in another part of the world. At first I was aghast at 2, almost everything it did offended my idea of 1. Colours, combat, no more summons rather become the summon...it went against everything 1 did mechanically and to a lesser extent the lore. 2 did do a lot of RPG elements right, the character skills, gears and "long term" elements like the seeds and the changing of areas after major events.

But just like 1, 2 was well written and explained competently in the lore as to the changes (mainly becoming the summon). It also put a different tilt on Laharah as well.

So if 3 can do something similar in terms of telling the story from another point of view (another God) and making it work with the lore, be well written and ultimately a fun game to play then I would be happy with "modern updates" to combat and tone.

Going back to the original point though, I don't think you can remake 1 without fundamentally changing it. So for me the only way is onwards and upwards! After all we still have 2 Gods left plus the Big Man himself to find out more about.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by Rattle&Hum:

snip

Hm, I always assumed Witcher was a hack and slash action game. Gameplay looks *quite* interesting!

Also assumed Summoner 2's story and writing had the same "upgrade" as its combat, focusing on intensity and convenience rather than depth and gravitas. Wonder if I could handle the change...

[Rattle&Hum]

If nothing else, both Summoner 1 and Witcher 1 has in common is an unforgettable soundtrack!

But since this is the Summoner forum I will start with your second point first.

Summoner 2 combat can be described as a "button masher" but there is a little more nuance to it, each character/class has a specific skill that gives you "special moves" using a combined button input (very basic though and easy to get to grips with). Kinda like "hot keys" for what would be classed "skills" in 1 or even chain attack effects.

Going back to my point on the colour scheme, I found it very "bright and colourful" when compared to 1. Then again 1 had a Medieval European theme were as 2 has a more "Tropical" feel to it, so the colours, albeit garish, are actually well suited to the world when you explore it and not just an "artistic direction".

The story is actually really well done, in 1 we seen the world through Urath's peoples' point of view and in 2 it's from Laharah's people. Although the stories don't match they do make sense. It's the "other side" of the coin so to speak. All in all the story is very well done and on par with 1. So much so they actually reconcile both sides ultimately throughout the game.

The rpg elements I think are even better in 2. There are a lot of "hidden/secret" areas with both gears and npc story that develop over major events and yet aren't essential to the main storyline. Like 1, you return to familiar areas after major events when things have changed.

The Summoner story is continued and in good fashion, has fantastic RPG elements. The combat is "OK" and the colour scheme will grow on you the more of the world you explore and learn about the world. Not to mention there are some real memorable characters.

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As for Witcher 1. Great game well worth playing. Unlike w2 and w3 (both action hack and slash types of games), w1 is rhythm based combat, fantastic story and has an in depth RPG alchemy/crafting system. This system can be daunting at first but once you get to grips with it, it adds another dimension to your game play.

Personally I would recommend going max difficulty as lower settings lets you bypass the crafting system almost altogether and as such you lose out on the experience. Once you understand the combat, regular fights are very doable with mini bosses and bosses requiring you to use the alchemy/crafting system (on max difficulty). Not to mention the story and atmosphere are quality.

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My take on the combat system evolution (all dice roll mechanics):

Baldur's Gate - Point and click, manually use skills/spells
Summoner 1 - Point and click, rhythm to use skills/spells
KotOR - Point and click, queue skills/spells
Witcher 1 - Point and click, rhythm to use skills with cinematic delivery with real time spells

[Veeshan]

Ya know, I must have gotten a mistaken impression of Summon 2 gameplay from whatever videos I watched. Just watched another playthrough and it's totally inline with a nice lower APM high TTK RPG. Sure there's some button combos but it looks perfectly fitting with a controller. Time to put this PS2 to good use.