Why wolves?

[AuldWolf]

I can't help but have a bit of a personal stake in this as I study animal behaviour, life cycles, and so on. It's a fascinating field and worth studying.

So, the first thing that hit me in the game is that there were wolves chasing a lynx. Aside from the baffling Hollywood-ism of carnivores, I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the scene. Wolves prey on large ungulates, and if desperate and pressed, small prey animals such as rabbit.

There are three primary reasons why this wouldn't happen in reality.

1.) It's a waste of energy.

Fellow carnivores are actually quite well armed, and have the power to put up a much, much better fight. This is why only very rarely do you see carnivores hunting other carnivores in the wilds. Why expend the energy to hunt something that would fight you, possibly even out-fight you, and cause you harm when much easier prey exists? Wolves are all about energy conservation as they can go for long periods without a meal, this used to just be the case for arctic wolves, but with human encroachment into timber wolf territory it's becoming more and more true there too.

2.) There isn't enough food in it.

Sure, a single wolf might be able to take on a lynx and come out of it without too much harm. The wolf in question would be exhausted, but there'd be sustenance. However, a pack of wolves would receive no sustenance whatsoever from the scraps of meat on a lynx. It would be a waste of energy that could be better expended taking down an ungulate.

3.) Predator meat, especially feline meat, isn't at all pleasant.

Not even counting parasites and other issues, the meat of a predator isn't remotely tasty. This is why the wolves in question wouldn't have the motivation to kill the lynx. Why choose to eat something that tastes absolutely gross when you have other choices available to you? A lone would would have to be incredibly desperate to take on a lynx, and they'd be that exhausted and starved by that point that the lynx might actually win.

Consider: It's not going to provide enough sustenance, it could harm them, it's an unnecessary waste of energy, and the meat tastes disgusting.

Now, yeah, having worked with wolves I see them as derpy dogs. Big dogs, but silly buggers nonetheless. They're not actually that imposing. In nature, they're not even particularly impressive predators. What gives them their edge is their intellect and their family-oriented nature, without that, wolves would've lost out on the survival race a long, long, long time ago. A wolf is hardly a lion, tiger, or similar big cat.

And this is why I bring up the fact that even a lynx could seriously fark up a wolf in the same way that even a small cat can do that to a domestic dog.

This is why it's always a headscratcher to see wolves used in place of just about anything more relevant. Now, I could see the lynx being hunted by us for its pelt. That's a valid motivation. But a pack of wolves? That killed my immersion right off the bat.

What I'm getting at is that it says that the developers didn't bother to do any research. That's disappointing. If you're going to make a game like this, wouldn't it help if it was at least believable.

Honestly it's just such an odd choice.

And I suppose it bothers me a little because it does more to cement the utterly ludicrous Hollywood notion of wolves. We humanfolk are xenophobic enough as it is, and it seems that we can't stop teaching each other violent fantasies which are quite contradictory to reality. I like the concept of Shelter, but I'd have loved it all the more if it had done more to mirror the actual life cycle of a lynx.

A hungry, exhausted, lone wolf I could've accepted but the pack is... well...

It's like a group of drunken, angry welshmen chasing down an American Navy SEALs fella. And I say this as a welshman.

There are just some things that make you sit back and say "You what?" and this is one of htem. I suppose if you don't know the first thing about animals and your education was provided by Hollywood, then this is acceptable. But... my education wasn't provided by Hollywood? I'm actually proud of that. So it was a bit too much for me.

So I've closed Shelter 2 and set it aside for now. I may come back to it at some point but that opening is... to put it diplomatically? Ill-considered.

[Wardiaper]

But it could happen? Just because we haven't observed something doesn't mean it hasn't or will not ever happen.

Even some experts are surprised by the unpredictible nature of animals. RIP Steve Irwin.

----------------

I was interested enough to google this. This almost sounds like you wrote it -

Best Answer: The main prey of wolves are large ungulates (hoofed animals) such as various species of deer. They will also take smaller prey like beavers and rabbits. Lynx do not form a normal part of their diet, and neither do coyotes. The flesh of meat-eaters generally tastes unpleasant, and carnivores are often well-armed - a wolf attacking a lynx is risking serious injury (though a pack would have little difficulty taking one on). Like most predators, wolves will kill other predators, particularly coyotes, in order to reduce competition for themselves, but this is not predation - they don't eat the other predators they kill. Of course, if they were hungry and happened across a lynx or coyote carcass, they would eat it, but only if they were desperate would they actually hunt such animals for food.
Source(s):
I used to be a zookeeper and have studied animals all my life.

So I vote yes, wolves would kill a lynx if for no other reason than to reduce competition.

[Regdog]

Nice one, hope the devs see this and take it to heart.

[Coats]

Wolves are definitely known for their tendency to attack and kill coyotes, and it has been documented many times. Normally, it's when the coyotes try to scavenge off kills they are eating/recently ate. I could easily see a group of wolves becoming territorial and aggressive, especially if there was food involved, towards a lynx in the same way they are with coyotes. I do however, believe a lynx would climb a tree if pursued, not run away like in the game (;

[Supermarine]

Attacking a lynx, not quite likely, yes. Also, as Coats mentions, the cats normally go for the trees when threatened by a bigger foe, when there's the option.

A lynx's progeny, a completely different matter though. Predators naturally go for the weak and defenseless, which usually are the very young and the very old. Not much energy cost, and at least a decent morsel until a bigger lunch is found.

Also, OP, I guess you didn't ever played Super Mario, with all those stupidly unrealistic carnivore plants, walking mushrooms and tortoises that can leave their shells, right?

C'mon dude, it's a game ;)

Enjoy and suspend your disbelief a little. Maybe the dev's intention was not a biology class, but another kind of message. Relax :)

[Arpogest]

Both games are primarily artistic and not about realism[killscreendaily.com]
It's their interpretation of the wild[killscreendaily.com]
Here's a bit further explanation of their vision:
http://killscreendaily.com/articles/shelter-badgers-magical-animals-might-and-delight/

[Murcrove]

Well you also have to consider the devs are from an country where wolves are not like the submissive ones from the states. (Pst, also there is a rumor they are working on a WOLF version of this game. I pretty sure they are aware of of how this all works- in fact in my game play after I killed a deer, me and my little lynx family were attacked by wolves and didn't leave us alone until they chased us away from the carcass- but I think they wanted a game like shelter, where there is a little danger felt. So the landscape is both beautiful and haunting.)

I can see why your upset because of stereotypes associated with wolves always being the bad guys and stuff. And usually that upsets me too, but with this type of game I don't get upset. I hope you can forgive it, and give it another chance. It's super charming- like everything I ever wanted in a videogame as a child. :> I hope that at some time you can forgive it too.

[Cloudo 1]

A few articles online suggest lynxes avoid areas with wolves, possibly for the reasons depicted in this game. While it's true carnivore meat isn't appealing to predators, a smart predator knows when to take opportunities when food is scarce. Wolves have been known to kill coyotes, cougars, dogs, and even their own kind (sometimes consuming them) to cut down competition and survive. So, yes, wolves would gladly try to eat a lynx or her cubs if they're not fast enough to escape.

Also keep in mind captive or human-socialized wolves are different from actual wild wolves. In our opinions it seems ghastly for popular or 'noble' creatures to do things that we as humans disapprove of, but keep in mind when you're trying to survive and there's nothing to help you but your wits, you can't keep the notion of altruism or morality.

[Sampler of Drugs]

Ever wondered why they chase you...

Cubs...
They are easy to catch since they can't run as fast as the mother.
Also, Wolves do hunt coyotes and lynxes, to reduce competition and to establish territory. This happens all the time in Nature itself.

[Rynaria]

There's an idea for Shelter 3! Make it about wolves! :D

[doctor sex says trans rights]

"Being a large predator itself, lynx have few predators, but lynx have been killed by wolves, fishers, bobcats, and coyotes." http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/canadalynx.html

"Predators of the lynx include cougars, wolves and coyotes, but humans are the biggest threat of all." http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/kids/animal-facts/canada_lynx.asp

"Humans are the main predator of the lynx; others include wolves and coyotes." http://www.env.gov.nl.ca/env/snp/programs/education/animal_facts/mammals/lynx.html

All reputable sources. Yes, wolves do prey upon lynx. Has your experience with wolves come from captive ones? If so, that might explain your misconception. Wolves in captivity behave somewhat differently than wild wolves. Also, a captive wolf would have no need to hunt a lynx.

[friendly]

I don't think anyone planned on putting that much thought into trying to argue with a video game honestly. But biologists seem to say wolves would eat lynx, among just about anything when they're hungry enough.

Are you a biologist or what did you mean when you mentioned your education being different than others? This seems like a super long post to be a joke, but still a joke.

[Martyin]

I thought it was really odd for wolves to be featured as an enemy in this game. In the opening, that is. A pack of wolves chasing down a lone, full grown lynx? Maybe they perceived her pregnancy as a sign of weakness, and she stumbled deep into their territory? It is night after all, and at night I wouldn't put anything past a group of wolves, especially if they're being aggressive for a reason other than just food.

Considering that there are legit sources that confirm that wolves can kill Lynx's, I don't think it's unrealistic at all. From what I've played, the game rarely has other wolf encounters, and most of them focus instead on your vulnerable cubs.

But.... still, of all the predators that could've been used, it had to be wolves? I think wolves were chosen since they reportedly are known to kill Lynx's (kill, not hunt, kill, big difference) which is realistic enough for this game and logically wolves would just make the best video game enemies out of the short list of threats toward Lynx's. They're frightening and allow for some chilling sound mixing (hearing a pack of wolves chasing you is all you need to be running like mad) as well as being easily recognizable.

But oh my god... if the next game is going to feature wolves, OH MY GAWD, my dream would legit come true. Wolf Quest dangled that dream in front of me too much with it's glitchyness and flawed controls.

[ArkRanger]

I'm guessing the reason wolves are the only enemy in the game is because the previous Shelter also had wolves as enemies, and it would take less work to put them into the game as opposed to creating other animals. (Haven't played Shelter 2 yet, are there no eagle encounters?

That being said, it seems like a ton of indie survival games these days tend to automatically have wolves as enemies (if they don't have zombies first). Kind of feels uncreative, as those games tend to have wolves act more like zombies with fur than anything else instead of living creatures with their own hunting tactics and behaviors.

If there is a Shelter 3 in the future though, I'd totally love it if we were playing as a mother wolf.

[Axu]

How about wolverines? I understand those bastards will fight anything.

[Hotblack Desiato]

It's a video game bro, people register wolves as hunters, they're used as basic enemies in almost every RPG. It's really that simple. You're taking real world logic and applying it to a game where you play as a Lynx in an abstract wilderness, normal rules simply dosent apply.