Caste gate disallows all old ants

[Omega]

I'm trying to set up a main loop with a mix of fresh ants, and a return elder trail that goes into the combiners, but when I do that the combiners block up waiting for the right pair of ants. To solve this, I'm trying to use caste gates to pull small workers, regular workers, etc. into their own queues for batches of combiners.

The problem is, a caste gate set to small worker will not match an OLD small worker. I tried switching to a null trial as the input, and that makes no difference.

As a result, I'm having to consider a main loop with separate trails for each kind of ant, and separate elder trails for each kind of ant. At no point will the caste gate actually be useful, because there's no point at which I can guarantee that what needs to be sorted won't be a mix of fresh and old ants.

[EmberStar]

So far, I've dealt with it by just not really mixing ant types. Small workers come from the incubators, and go into quick tasks that are close to that. (Smelting and foraging seem to work and don't use up too much of their short lives.) Then they go back to their own dedicated Combiners / Assemblers to get turned into the next castes. Miners have their own dedicated loops, as do Workers and Pod Workers. The Pod Workers go back to their own Assemblers to get recharged, and Workers get divided up between Inventors and Drones. When I get Fancy Ants, they'll get their own dedicated task loops (probably running supplies back and forth across the Small Bridges.

It's worked for me so far, and it avoids the problem of dumping every caste into a single "main bus" loop and then trying to sort them again, either for tasks or recycling / upgrading into other ants. I was watching a Youtube Creator who just kept dumping every new caste of ant onto a single Main Bus loop, and one of his complaints about the game was that it was a pain to sort and manage them.

Dunno, I enjoy factory type games but I don't claim to be very good at them. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. But as I said, it's working for me so far. Mostly because I know how many Small Workers I'll have, and if I keep them close to the start they don't spend half their lives running to the work site. Regular / Iron Workers live longer, so they do stuff that's farther away or that just takes a long time. (The bigger Workers mostly make stuff like Iron Plates, because those take forever and if a small one goes Old just as they start they might not make it to the upgrade area in time.)

I've also been using Drones to just move larvae to a distant location rather than trying to run to it. The fact that Dispensers can be placed anywhere on the same island means that they can haul or smelt or forage on location, then get upgraded into diggers or pod workers where they are.

[pokerpepe]

I dont have this issue, I have one main elder trail feeding back to base and use caste for all old ante sorting

[dj8472]

Do you have multiple gates they can take on the same node?
Can you post a screenshot

I have no problem with old ants taking caste gates

[Bob, the doge]

From your description, it seems that you have both gates on the same spot, which is why the caste gate is not filtering out old ants. If you want multiple checks, you need to chain gates one after the other: mixed ants are walking on the main trail, they pass an old gate. This separates your ants between old and young ants (no caste filtering). Then, you place a caste gate on the old-only trail, and you'll have 2 trails of old ants: 1 of a certain caste, 1 of everything else.

If ants reach 2 gates at the same point in the trail and more than 1 is open, they will only choose one of them to pass through (the one that makes them diverge less from their previous path).

[Kryten]

I use two "main loops" one for all non-old ants where I branch off via counter and/or caste gates and a second loop around that one for old ants. All old ants are sent to the second one. Since elder trail gives them speed and prolongs life a bit, while it reduces speed for non-old ants, it should be clear they have to be separated....

[Thundercracker]

personally, i have a single elder trail between my two main areas of work. i tap off od this elder trail near the end with the various caste gates.

the way i have my main island setup is:

ants are hatched into small ants and set loose into the colony.
when small ants are old, they get on the elder trail and are tapped off near the end with a caste gate. from this there is a three way divider. two paths lead to the combiner to make large workers, one to the assembler to make iron workers.

at the end of the elder path is a final caste gate, allowing all but large workers. this gate leads to the recycler. large workers instead get diverted to a pair of assemblers split from a divider. these both produce drones.

right now, only small workers, large workers, iron workers, and drones exist in my colony.

[Bob, the doge]

Originally posted by Thundercracker:

these both produce drones.

Ew, drones.

But seriously, drones are a specialty ant. You should be using them only to transport stuff between islands (until you get bridges), and you don't need a plethora of them for that (usually the number is "enough to get you enough larvae sent to the island"). The main destination for big workers (iron or otherwise) should be inventors. You can then turn those into science or recycle them for energy.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Bob, the doge:

Originally posted by Thundercracker:

these both produce drones.

Ew, drones.

But seriously, drones are a specialty ant. You should be using them only to transport stuff between islands (until you get bridges), and you don't need a plethora of them for that (usually the number is "enough to get you enough larvae sent to the island"). The main destination for big workers (iron or otherwise) should be inventors. You can then turn those into science or recycle them for energy.

i'm not playing quite like that. there hasent been anything for me to spend tech points on for many hours now. and aside from that, as inventor ants will NEVER be on the elder trail, they are not pertinent to the discussion. i've never recycled inventors, but unless they convert my level 1 pods into level 2 pods, it's not worth it for me. i've got more than a thousand level 1 pods stored up.

i do not have bridges, so drones transport things between islands, most importantly larvae. once they've transported things between islands a time or two, they become my energy pod harvest force, with overflow redirected back to transport. i exclusively use drones for this because workers have plant cutting while drones do not. drones and workers both work the regular production lines, but to keep as many workers available for plant cutting as i can, only drones harvest energy pods.

now that i'm finally expanding to the third island, drones are more important now than ever. even moreso with the looming prospect of restarting mining operations on the desert island. that's like three separate, small installations. i'm carefully restricting my queen until i can get a more regular supply of higher level energy pods.

i give myself very large materials leads, because i know i suck at efficiency. when unlocking a new output, i make sure i've collected/ processed a large stockpile or two of the inputs. most other people with my playtime would probably have progressed much farther than i have.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Thundercracker:

i've never recycled inventors, but unless they convert my level 1 pods into level 2 pods

They uhmm.... they create level 3 pods ....
Along with free iron scrap; of course.

But it's mostly about the pods.

[Bob, the doge]

Originally posted by Thundercracker:

i've never recycled inventors, but unless they convert my level 1 pods into level 2 pods, it's not worth it for me.

As RiO said, they don't convert energy, they give you (a lot of) energy for free. Making inventors costs you 4 ants (or 2 ants + 2 iron, which is essentially the same thing but with labor involved), and recycling them gives you 4 scrap iron and a level III pod. Which you can feed to the queen, getting her to level up and produce more larvae to turn into inventors, recycle and increase the feeding rate.

You can easily reach a ~300 population with this, which renders moot any talk about labor efficiency. Need something done? Just throw ants at the problem, you'll have more than enough.

It does take up a lot of land, though, since all those assemblers (for iron workers) and combiners (for inventors) are bulky.

Oh, and regarding all the plant cutting you seem to be doing: you only really need enough fiber to keep your fabric workshops supplied. I made the mistake of believing the "fiber is a high demand material" line from the tech tree my first time around and ended up with half a jungle island of fiber stockpiles and nothing to do with it other than throw it in the trash.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Thundercracker:

i've never recycled inventors, but unless they convert my level 1 pods into level 2 pods

They uhmm.... they create level 3 pods ....
Along with free iron scrap; of course.

But it's mostly about the pods.

a level 3 pod? from full or empty? if empty.... wow. just wow.

Originally posted by Bob, the doge:

Oh, and regarding all the plant cutting you seem to be doing: you only really need enough fiber to keep your fabric workshops supplied. I made the mistake of believing the "fiber is a high demand material" line from the tech tree my first time around and ended up with half a jungle island of fiber stockpiles and nothing to do with it other than throw it in the trash.

fiber IS a high demand material in my colony. it's needed by both drones and resin production, and resin is required for LEDs. even reclaiming it by recycling every single drone that gets old, i'm slowly losing total stock (main fiber processing is shut down on main island, active as a secondary industry on second island.)

i'm just now setting up my first facility on the jungle island. when i saved and quit last, i still needed like 10 scrap iron to be transported over to get the first smelter built. probably going to have to send the concrete over to build the monument and finally unlock bridges, i'm not set near any of the plants that provide rubble.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Thundercracker:

Originally posted by RiO:

They uhmm.... they create level 3 pods ....
Along with free iron scrap; of course.

But it's mostly about the pods.

a level 3 pod? from full or empty? if empty.... wow. just wow.

From empty. I'm old-gating my inventors that can't make it onto an inventor pad before wasting away, into a recycler. And: :: pop! :: -- out come the level 3 pods.

Yes; it is disgustingly delicious...

[Bob, the doge]

Originally posted by Thundercracker:

fiber IS a high demand material in my colony. it's needed by both drones and resin production, and resin is required for LEDs. even reclaiming it by recycling every single drone that gets old, i'm slowly losing total stock (main fiber processing is shut down on main island, active as a secondary industry on second island.)

i'm just now setting up my first facility on the jungle island. when i saved and quit last, i still needed like 10 scrap iron to be transported over to get the first smelter built. probably going to have to send the concrete over to build the monument and finally unlock bridges, i'm not set near any of the plants that provide rubble.

Not to keep banging on the same nail here, but the reason you seem to be struggling with resources is the overuse of expensive ants for jobs they are not needed. Not only drones, but it seems you have an abundance of fancy ants running around? Yea, those are EXPENSIVE. I'll usually only make 1 at a time to keep my t2 science going.

Keep in mind: just because you can make expensive ants doesn't mean you should. There's nothing a fancy ant can do that an iron worker can't (ok, it can live for 20 minutes and move a bit faster), but as you said, even recycling it still costs you labor to rebuild the LED. Still, if you're recycling EVERY ant, you shouldn't be losing stock. The only net loss you get with T1 ants is with drones (see? they're the worst!), since they only give 1 iron back from the 2 iron they cost. There must be some place where they're dying of old age, check your trails for corpses.

I'm about to start T3 research on my current colony, and my population is 90% small and iron workers. The rest are some pod workers that collect energy from distant corners of the desert (in independent loops) and miners (because I need to free up some land on the toxic island).

But you have the right idea with the jungle island. Order the monument to be built and ferry the concrete over using drones. Then you can get on with bridges and reduce your dependency on drones.

[Bob, the doge]

Originally posted by RiO:

I'm old-gating my inventors that can't make it onto an inventor pad before wasting away, into a recycler.

Why old-gate when you can divider-trail them? :D

I mean, we don't even need that many inventor points (especially after unlocking the inventor tower).

Sadly, T2 inventors are not as juicy, since you only get a pod upgrade at the additional cost of a fancy ant.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Bob, the doge:

Not to keep banging on the same nail here, but the reason you seem to be struggling with resources is the overuse of expensive ants for jobs they are not needed. Not only drones, but it seems you have an abundance of fancy ants running around? Yea, those are EXPENSIVE. I'll usually only make 1 at a time to keep my t2 science going.

no, i listed the ants in my colony. i've not built a single fancy ant. i'm building LEDs now because the last things i've unlocked are the LED tower and the factory (where LEDs are produced.)

just like with everything, i do not know how much i am going to need until pretty much the next rung on the tech ladder.

so i build a large stockpile full of each new resource/ product. i fill this stockpile before starting production on anything that used it.

this is what's slowed me down. i needed fabric for resin. once i had a full stockpile of resin, i started production on things that use it.

at the same time i've been working other resources of the same tier, glass and copper as an example.

Originally posted by Bob, the doge:

Keep in mind: just because you can make expensive ants doesn't mean you should. There's nothing a fancy ant can do that an iron worker can't (ok, it can live for 20 minutes and move a bit faster), but as you said, even recycling it still costs you labor to rebuild the LED. Still, if you're recycling EVERY ant, you shouldn't be losing stock. The only net loss you get with T1 ants is with drones (see? they're the worst!), since they only give 1 iron back from the 2 iron they cost. There must be some place where they're dying of old age, check your trails for corpses.

i'm losing stock because drones are not the only pull on fabric. there's resin too. oh, and there's a drone production site on both active islands. don't want my large workers wastefully dying, after all.

now that i know inventors are a broken source of early game high-tier energy, i may have to exploit that. i believe i'm pretty close to the energy combiner thing, though, and THAT'S what i'm waiting on to really start pushing energy into my queen.

Originally posted by Bob, the doge:

I'm about to start T3 research on my current colony, and my population is 90% small and iron workers. The rest are some pod workers that collect energy from distant corners of the desert (in independent loops) and miners (because I need to free up some land on the toxic island).

not going to use any kind of podworkers for anything beyond making gynes. at least not until i get the final tier of them. energy is primarily for the queen and we hoard it.

Originally posted by Bob, the doge:

But you have the right idea with the jungle island. Order the monument to be built and ferry the concrete over using drones. Then you can get on with bridges and reduce your dependency on drones.

to be honest, bridges are not going to do much for me. not right now at least. i've got enough drone production that it is probably much faster to just keep flying larva to incubators than have small ants walk to a bridge. for bringing stockpiles back to the main island, i might see some utility. but then again, the lack of bridges has made me adapt with drones, and i think it COULD be much faster than how it works now for me. i'd just have to really fine tune the number of drones collecting energy.