so lets talk about the goal of this game

[ZDENDA]

we all know this is survival horror game.
most of us will automaticaly say obvivious "survive at all cost".

and i have to agree with that statement to some measure but re-occuring theme in this game is "escape"
our protagonist talks about it in his journal, antagonist of the chapter 1 want to escape too, every damn sane person wants to escape. some insane like piotrek want to escape so hard they want to leave this planet behind them.

it feels like we are preparing for the one last mission. the great exodus.

but

there is that implied time limit. window of time in which we must finish this mission before its too late.

wild and hostile woods consuming the land, mutations and plague destroying our body and mind, finite amount of resources and lastly the day and night cycle.

there is lot of implied pressure and with pressure come hight stakes.
also game itself counts days survived
and i cant be the only one who wonders why.

-----------------------------------
now i think its because its something yet unimplemented. something that is simply not possible right now because game is not finished.

so here it is folks. you heard it here first.
this game is going to have time limit.

[Nive]

Is escape even possible though? The whole goal of chapter 1 is to retrieve the key to the tunnel door to escape the hell Meat is in. Except chapter 2 takes place in a swamp that is arguably even more hellish than chapter 1. Is there a place beyond "Darkwood"? Has the whole world gone to ♥♥♥♥?

I can understand why you've come to the conclusion that the game will have a time limit, and maybe it will, and while there IS a sense of urgency, there's no sense of change.

The world is static. Sure there's talk of a plague destroying civilization, but unless you interact with someone or something directly, nothing happens. The trees aren't growing, people aren't dying, Meat's condition isn't worsening, nothing.

That's not to say it won't be added, but there's just no use theorizing when we know so little about the world of Darkwood. Hell, we don't even know who Meat is and we play as him!

[ZDENDA]

Originally posted by Nive:

Is escape even possible though? The whole goal of chapter 1 is to retrieve the key to the tunnel door to escape the hell Meat is in. Except chapter 2 takes place in a swamp that is arguably even more hellish than chapter 1. Is there a place beyond "Darkwood"? Has the whole world gone to ♥♥♥♥?

it is implied that there is place beyond darkwood. protagonist comes from such a place. as for the if escape is possible in the end.... it doesnt matter.

Originally posted by Nive:

I can understand why you've come to the conclusion that the game will have a time limit, and maybe it will, and while there IS a sense of urgency, there's no sense of change.

to a degree its visible on mutattions but as i as i said in the OP.

Originally posted by Nive:

The world is static. Sure there's talk of a plague destroying civilization, but unless you interact with someone or something directly, nothing happens. The trees aren't growing, people aren't dying, Meat's condition isn't worsening, nothing.

indeed but.... honestly. its kinda hard to set up such a things in the game. it code extensive as hell. and it may make more problems than it would solve. IE entrance to the village being overgrown with roots and such.

Originally posted by Nive:

That's not to say it won't be added, but there's just no use theorizing when we know so little about the world of Darkwood.

Oh i must correct you there. If we knew everything about our protagonist and world of darkwood what use would theorizing have? on the other hand when we know so little i think i can let my imagination run rampant as i please.

Originally posted by Nive:

Hell, we don't even know who Meat is and we play as him!

indeed! we know so little. there is lots of things about him that imply stuff but nothing is outright confirmed.He is outsider, probably undead (bassed on comment mady by wolfman and "meat's" abilty to rise from the dead), he is part of some agency ( most probably researcher with shady background. hence the journal he is keeping), he is bastard who got what he deserved (thats actual quote from the game), darkwood is probably zona-like place with some sort of sentiency that happens to hate "meat" as the sole reason the doctor had to relocate is that he simply took "meat" as a prisoner in his house which prompted darkwood to attack his place.(whole prologue establishes this and darkwood itself is bassed on works of strugatsky brothers) he is unable to speak (we dont know why but its really good storytelling device) and for some reason he cant eat soup. (chicken lady establishes this.tho he can eat mushrooms, wood, bread, eggs, pills and drink alcohol)

overally there is lot of space for speculation.

[Psiling]

this is cool.

[Gold Handles]

TOTAL SPOILERS AHEAD:









I don't think there's any real debate as to who Meat is. At the end of CH1 you are drugged by the Doctor and see the history of the plague's evolution. Through all of it, a doppelganger of Meat is present and watching.

This scene, plus the fact that Meat has a key out, Meat's knowledge of hideouts, and also Meat's apparent guilt (as shown by the mirror item) seem to show definitively that Meat was part of a group that tested the plague out on the region where Darkwood takes place, with the Chicken Lady's daughter being patient Zero (as seen in the hallucination...)

He and his group, probably part of the KGB or Soviet government, tested the plague out here as a bio-weapon. Since the game takes place during the Cold War, it would likely be a way to eliminate the USA without initiating a nuclear war.

There's probably no way out at this point. The Doctor mentions there being radio silence for a long time (no comms coming from the outside world...) and we see destroyed tanks and artillery guns, which implies that the plague was not something small and easily contained.

[Nive]

I don't understand how you came to that conclusion at all. There's no evidence to suggest this is a government bioweapon. There's no evidence to suggest that the woman in Chicken Lady's house is patient zero, and there's no evidence to suggest that Meat was there when it happened.
Why would the Doctor have to show Meat what happened if Meat was already there? Meat obviously isn't an amnesiac, he references the past all the time, a past we know nothing about.

What about the child's drawings, that show the plague comes from the mushrooms? Their dog ate one in the forest, went mad, bit their dad, the dad killed it and burned his doghouse, and then the twins and their father plus a whole bunch of other people went to the church as refuges from the plague. There we can assume the dad infected everyone, they all died, and their corpses gestated into chompers.

Yeah, Meat is guilty about something, but we have no idea what. Yeah, Meat isn't a local, but we have no idea where he's from or what that place is like.

[ZDENDA]

Originally posted by Nive:

I don't understand how you came to that conclusion at all. There's no evidence to suggest this is a government bioweapon.

i agree with this. there is actually evidence against such a thing..

events of the game are set in 1985 as it is first date in our protagonist's journal.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=714710323
after brief research i found out that it is towards the end of the cold war and its also post Gomułka's thaw which lessened soviet influence on the polish republic.

it strictly doesn't rule out that this is work of the russians but it makes it way less plausible.

on different note i would say there is enough evidence to approximate time period during which darkwood came to existance.

[Gold Handles]

Originally posted by Nive:

I don't understand how you came to that conclusion at all. There's no evidence to suggest this is a government bioweapon. There's no evidence to suggest that the woman in Chicken Lady's house is patient zero, and there's no evidence to suggest that Meat was there when it happened.
Why would the Doctor have to show Meat what happened if Meat was already there? Meat obviously isn't an amnesiac, he references the past all the time, a past we know nothing about.

What about the child's drawings, that show the plague comes from the mushrooms? Their dog ate one in the forest, went mad, bit their dad, the dad killed it and burned his doghouse, and then the twins and their father plus a whole bunch of other people went to the church as refuges from the plague. There we can assume the dad infected everyone, they all died, and their corpses gestated into chompers.

Yeah, Meat is guilty about something, but we have no idea what. Yeah, Meat isn't a local, but we have no idea where he's from or what that place is like.

1. Doctor calls Meat a "rat" and clearly knows who he is, hence his apparent animosity and the fact that he knows he has a key on him.

2. When you are caught by the Doctor at the end of CH1, he literally says "we're just test subjects for you"

3. The chicken lady's daughter is the first one shown in the hallucination to be developing plague symptoms. She's only a bit ill at first, like a normal fever, but then degenerates (obviously). Meat is seen in the hallucination watching this progress.

These are the three main points that DIRECTLY imply that Meat and his group infected the town... how would Meat even know to monitor the Chicken Lady's daughter, a random, mildly ill girl in a random spot of woods that was not yet afflicted with the plague... if he didn't infect her himself (or one of his comrades did.)

The child's drawings don't mean much. The plague is shown to spread between humans, plants, and animals, but not in any particular order. Once someone has the plague, EVERYTHING in the area is shown to get it... so a plague victim could infect nearby fauna probably just by breathing.

[ZDENDA]

Originally posted by ShotgunRagtime:

1. Doctor calls Meat a "rat" and clearly knows who he is, hence his apparent animosity and the fact that he knows he has a key on him.

he doesnt know exactly who he is. he only knows that he is part of the group of observers who are able to leave and enter the woods at whim and he is stuck in this hell hole. worse.... our protagonist doesn't want to share his privilage. i would be angered too.

Originally posted by ShotgunRagtime:

2. When you are caught by the Doctor at the end of CH1, he literally says "we're just test subjects for you"

he used to say that but as of rework of the chapter 1. that is no longer a truth. i am unsure if this rules out anything or it just postpones this point until release the chapter 2 so i will leave it to you to decide.

Originally posted by ShotgunRagtime:

3. The chicken lady's daughter is the first one shown in the hallucination to be developing plague symptoms. She's only a bit ill at first, like a normal fever, but then degenerates (obviously). Meat is seen in the hallucination watching this progress.

this is very speculative as he may be observer / listener and his presence in these scenes may be only side-effect of the drugs. notice that there is shift in perspective and we play as the doctor through this dream. but as i like to say.... this is open for discusion and until final release. there is absolutely nothing final.

Originally posted by ShotgunRagtime:

These are the three main points that DIRECTLY imply that Meat and his group infected the town... how would Meat even know to monitor the Chicken Lady's daughter, a random, mildly ill girl in a random spot of woods that was not yet afflicted with the plague... if he didn't infect her himself (or one of his comrades did.)

i would say these three main points are not as bulletproof as you make them sound but i like your theory and think its more plausible after you presented them.

Originally posted by ShotgunRagtime:

The child's drawings don't mean much. The plague is shown to spread between humans, plants, and animals, but not in any particular order. Once someone has the plague, EVERYTHING in the area is shown to get it... so a plague victim could infect nearby fauna probably just by breathing.

transmission of the plague is not show tho. on the other hand, everything is plagued already.
i would say only person who looks somewhat healthy is doctor and even then he show some early stages of infection on his body.

[Gold Handles]

You bring up some good counterarguments, and I think I'd now agree that my theory definitely isn't 100% airtight :P

So we'll have to wait and see what devs do for CH2 and the game's ending. I just hope they don't pull some copout ending like a stereotypical escape or protagonist death... I'd like for a confrontation with whatever evil spawned the Darkwoods, maybe not a successful confrontation lol, but at least for some answers to be revealed during the encounter.

[monstro fudido]

Originally posted by Nive:

[...]

The world is static. Sure there's talk of a plague destroying civilization, but unless you interact with someone or something directly, nothing happens. The trees aren't growing, people aren't dying, Meat's condition isn't worsening, nothing.

[...]

Forgive me, but the trees ARE growing. Paraphrasing the Doctor on the Prologue, "the trees grow too fast for me to cut them down". And Meat's condition IS worsening, as one of Darkwood's earliest promotional texts mentioned something along the lines of "The lines between reality and nightmare start to blur", almost certainly due to his mental ilness/mushroom high/a combination of both getting worse, wich is something we clearly experience in-game. The protagonist's perception cannot be trusted.

[ZDENDA]

Originally posted by Crow:

Forgive me, but the trees ARE growing. Paraphrasing the Doctor on the Prologue, "the trees grow too fast for me to cut them down". And Meat's condition IS worsening, as one of Darkwood's earliest promotional texts mentioned something along the lines of "The lines between reality and nightmare start to blur", almost certainly due to his mental ilness/mushroom high/a combination of both getting worse, wich is something we clearly experience in-game. The protagonist's perception cannot be trusted.

he is pointing out that its only stated instead of shown.

i would be ok if the roots around the edges of map were animated and something was done about the mushrooms so they were necessary to survive.