NO-TSUMO Mahjong

[almond-110]

What do you think about the version of the rules without tsumo? It's the same as in regular riichi mahjong, but you can't declare win by tsumo. What it will do:

• Increase the role of defence.
  
  • If it is impossible to win from the wall, the opponents begin to carefully discard dangerous tiles, especially at the end of the game.
    
  • Absolute protection (complete safety from Ron) becomes real.
• The element of randomness will be reduced.
  
• Tenpai no ten (stay in tenpai when the wall is completed) will become a strategic tool, as a draw with tenpai gives you points.
  
• Increasing the role of bluffing: players will more often provoke opponents to make mistakes by simulating safe drops.
  
• Some hands will cease to exist.
  
• The game will become more passive, the matches will become long.
  
• It will be more difficult for developers to play along, for example, for beginners or payed players, creating convenient conditions when generating walls for winning by tsumo.

I think the game will become much deeper and more strategic. Where can I play this or something similar? Would you like to play this?

[koboldlord]

I've played a game where every hand was an exhaustive draw, with the small payout eventually stacking up. It was interesting to see once, but it wasn't very fun and I wouldn't keep playing if that happened all the time.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Terrible, terrible idea. Riichi is already am extremely defensive game at higher levels, aiming to Tsumo is how you go on the attack. At higher ranks, Tsumo rate goes up because Ron rate goes down.

Take that away, and you're left with a meta where the first player to get a lead can sit on that lead for the rest of the hanchan and never lose another point. Where the majority of hands will end in Ryuukyoku.

Consider what would happen when you do Tsumo - you'd then just get stuck in Furiten. Punished for success. That's obviously stupid!

And if the only reason you're asking to ruin the game is because you're still clinging to conspiracy theories, STOP.

[swagen2167]

This idea sucks.

[almond-110]

Originally posted by 1.2M | Missingno.:

Terrible, terrible idea. Riichi is already am extremely defensive game at higher levels, aiming to Tsumo is how you go on the attack. At higher ranks, Tsumo rate goes up because Ron rate goes down.

Take that away, and you're left with a meta where the first player to get a lead can sit on that lead for the rest of the hanchan and never lose another point. Where the majority of hands will end in Ryuukyoku.

Consider what would happen when you do Tsumo - you'd then just get stuck in Furiten. Punished for success. That's obviously stupid!

And if the only reason you're asking to ruin the game is because you're still clinging to conspiracy theories, STOP.

You're thinking too narrowly, Missinggnome. Victory by tsumo is an uncontrollable accident. It's like giving a "win" button to random players at random times. Tsumo makes the game more unpredictable and random, which does not correlate well with your ideas of "mahjong skill". In my version, there's only strategy, bluff, and the art of war. "Ruin the game"? Heh, what's wrong with adding an additional mode with additional rules? And, for example, a separate rating. If you don't want to, don't play, you can play the regular one. The technical implementation is also very simple, literally you just need to prohibit winning by tsumo.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Mahjong is a game of hidden information. It's a game of drawing tiles from a facedown wall. There will always be randomness. Luck is a part of the game that cannot be avoided.

You aren't removing luck from the game, you aren't adding "strategy, bluff, and the art of war". You're simply replacing the luck of drawing your tile and winning with the luck of drawing your tile and being punished with furiten. If you think that's better, if you think that's more "mahjong skill", you haven't thought the implications through.

If you want to play a game that has no randomness in it, you should probably play something else entirely that isn't Mahjong. Because the more you complain about things that are a fundamental part of the game, the more it just sounds like this isn't the game for you.

[almond-110]

Originally posted by 1.2M | Missingno.:

Mahjong is a game of hidden information. It's a game of drawing tiles from a facedown wall. There will always be randomness. Luck is a part of the game that cannot be avoided.

You aren't removing luck from the game, you aren't adding "strategy, bluff, and the art of war". You're simply replacing the luck of drawing your tile and winning with the luck of drawing your tile and being punished with furiten. If you think that's better, if you think that's more "mahjong skill", you haven't thought the implications through.

If you want to play a game that has no randomness in it, you should probably play something else entirely that isn't Mahjong. Because the more you complain about things that are a fundamental part of the game, the more it just sounds like this isn't the game for you.

Randomness can affect the game to varying degrees. As you have noticed, in my version of the rules, the probability will not disappear at all. I'm just suggesting that we reduce its impact and make the game more predictable by eliminating completely abnormal options with unpredictable wins from the void, as well as situations where a player plays perfectly but still loses. A player of your level should understand that there is a fundamental difference between controlled randomness and an absolutely unexpected defeat out of nowhere.
There are a lot of different versions of mahjong, so I don't really understand why you're angry about this one. You still have nothing to lose if people play this option.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

You have not reduced the impact of randomness. You have simply shifted it into something much dumber. Getting punished with furiten for successfully drawing your tile would also be a situation where a player plays perfectly and gets punished for it!

I'm annoyed with you because this thread is clearly just more thinly veiled whining from you. You think you're perfect and that it's always the game's fault when you lose, that the game must be rigged even. It's a special degree of arrogance to think you can 'fix' Mahjong by removing one of the most fundamental elements of the game.

[almond-110]

Originally posted by 1.2M | Missingno.:

You have not reduced the impact of randomness. You have simply shifted it into something much dumber. Getting punished with furiten for successfully drawing your tile would also be a situation where a player plays perfectly and gets punished for it!

I'm annoyed with you because this thread is clearly just more thinly veiled whining from you. You think you're perfect and that it's always the game's fault when you lose, that the game must be rigged even. It's a special degree of arrogance to think you can 'fix' Mahjong by removing one of the most fundamental elements of the game.

A normal person would just pass by if annoyed, but for some reason you're constantly fixating on my posts... Perhaps you should ask yourself, why are you doing this?

[1.2M | Missingno.]

A normal person would stop playing a game they clearly hate so much, but for some reason you're constantly fixating on insisting it's rigged. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why are you doing this?

[almond-110]

Originally posted by 1.2M | Missingno.:

A normal person would stop playing a game they clearly hate so much, but for some reason you're constantly fixating on insisting it's rigged. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why are you doing this?

The topic is not about that at all. And I'm not insisting that the game is rigged. I'm just wondering why developers leave room for potential tampering. Isn't that interesting? "Hate game" heh. I'm absolutely obsessed with mahjong...

[1.2M | Missingno.]

"Just wondering", suuuuure. All you've done is constantly bring it up. You put it in the OP for a reason.

[almond-110]

Originally posted by 1.2M | Missingno.:

"Just wondering", suuuuure. All you've done is constantly bring it up. You put it in the OP for a reason.

I understand that it is unpleasant for you to realize that the developers have been leading you by the nose and deceiving you all this time. It's hard to accept. That's why you're guarding the 24/7 forums of two(!) mahjong games and trying to prove people on the Internet that they're wrong. But that's not what this thread is about. Please wake up... this is a wrong thread, Missingnome....

[1.2M | Missingno.]

You put your conspiracy in the OP, and you put it in bold to make it clear that's why you made this thread. You can't keep parroting the conspiracy theory and then play dumb and pretend that has nothing to do with it.

I understand that it is unpleasant for you to lose at a game. It's hard to accept. But if MajSoul upsets you this much, maybe you should play something else?

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Buddy, you're the only one coming here to act like this. I'm just responding to you and your behavior.

[almond-110]

Originally posted by 1.2M | Missingno.:

Buddy, you're the only one coming here to act like this. I'm just responding to you and your behavior.

Why?