Musings on the story

[Ignis]

I've recently finished the game with a 100% achievement completion. Even if the announcement of a new, improved version so soon after launch has left me - like many others - a bit sour, I'd still say I had a good time.
However, I have thoughts in regards to a lot of unexplored potential and questionable decisions in the story, which I need to exorcize out of me. So I intend to place them in this thread and invite anyone reading to offer their own. If you disagree with anything I type down there, I more than welcome it; I simply ask that you try to politely tell me why that is. I'll number the items so if anyone would want to address only a part of my post, it'll be easier to do.
I'ven o clue whether any of these will be addressed when Proud Nordics gets released; I'd be rather proud myself if they are.

Obviously, what follows contains spoilers for the whole game.

1) THE GRIEGR

I believe the story gives us contradictory messages in how it wants us to feel about the Grigr. It is revealed near the end that the griegr are, for lack of a better term, pure evil. They're born out of the negative emotions of mankind and its relationship with it can only be antagonistic; we can only fight and try to destroy each other. The main example of this, out of the Trident members themselves, is the phantom ship crewed by the rage of all the people killed by Normans, who assembled and turned into a Griegr.
However, at the same time, there are several ways in which the game contradict this. From having the grunt humanoid griegr act in a comedic fashion, to making one try to befriend the cat in Falun island by offering it food. Then there's Guila the fortune teller, who turns out to be a griegr born out of resignation and - despite this - contradicts her supposed nature when she feels inspired by Adol and Karja's determination to seize their own destinies and is, throughout, an ally.
And, of course, the biggest contradiction of all: The lone griegr of Krangal island, who is so moved by his love of the sole remaning islander, the blind Raya, that he dedicates his life to care and protect her, without ever revealing its presence. That's a level of altruism that would be lacking in many humans. By the way, I'm still confused about the way its story ended; one day he's shown to find some food outside the mine where he resides, and after eating it he begins to lose his mind, becoming completely monstrous and having to be executed by the heroes. What happened there?
The story flirts with the notion that there may be more to the griegr than being something that has to be unthinkingly destroyed, and shows Karja having doubts. But then it seems to forget all of it as it progresses. The big scary Griegr are always bad, sure, but by the end of the story we're facing groups of the little humanoid ones - who have been shown to be capable of having hopes and dreams and seem to be conscripted in the army, almost - and we annihilate them.

2) TURNING HUMANS (And others) INTO GRIEGR

I understand on a meta-level the need to kidnap human characters, scatter them through the world and turning them into Puppet Griegr. It gives the villains an air of threat without having to turn their raids into a bloodbath, since the story is mainly aimed at a younger audience. But I feel it still clashes with the notion of the Griegr being the product of human malice; if they're born of humans, How can you turn a human into a Griegr?
When we find Rosalind in the marine triangle, her grief and negative emotions transform her puppet form into a stronger enemy. But shouldn't those emotions create a griegr outside of her, rather than make her change shape? Perhaps it's simply Jord's unique power, like a vampire turning those it bites into its servants. I suppose that's one way in which it makes sense.
Except it doesn't, because there's the Griegr of Fuling island. In this side quest, we're shown that Griegr are fruitarians (!) and that if a human eats enough of their fruit, they'll turn into Griegr (!!). But a kind of chill, gentle Griegr that only wants to live in peace (!!!), even a bestial kind like best boy Muming. Until another Griegr commands them to lose their mind and become monsters. I guess that's what happened to the one in Krangal...? But we're never shown another Griegr who might compel him set foot in the island.

3) THE PACING

The pacing is all over the place.
First of all: This is a very cutscene-heavy game. I understand that the Japanese love their voice acting, I've no problem with that. But I feel like many dialogues that happen during cutscenes could've been streamlined to happen during gameplay, especially in the first chapters, which can become a slog.
Secondly: There are many crew conversations occurring during the sea voyages across the gulf, but the map is structured in such a way that, unless you're actively avoiding using Mana Sail, using sea currents or even sometimes moving the ship at all, you're bound to come across some island or event or boundary that will cut the conversation short. I found it somewhat frustrating; you'd think that having a whole sea to traverse would make it easier to insert character convos to pass the time, but most of mine just got cut short and - if I wanted to see how they ended - I was forced to go to the journal and read it there. I know most of the topics they talk about are just gossip or nonsense, but still.
Thirdly: Adol's "spirit trips" into Viewpoint isle happen at very inconvenient times. It's bad enough when you find a relic in the field and you can't use it until you've frolicked around with the old man. It's even worse when there's a moment of high tension going on - like having the Griegr about to kill Adol or discover him and Karja in Falun island - and then you're taken back to Viewpoint to play an ultra-low stakes challenge that kills the story's momentum.
In my opinion, they should've worked Adol's visits to the island in parts of the plot where not much is going on, like having him visit it in dreams at night. At the beginning of chapters, maybe. You don't need to tie the relic mechanics to those trips; you find magic artifacts in Ys all the time and don't need an explanation or an in-depth tutorial for them.
But keep the one in Aegir's temple; when Karja turns into "Rollo", disarms Adol and is just about to kill him. If it's used like that - in that instance only - and it gives Adol some insight on how he can pull through, I believe it works.
Lastly, and most egregiously: When Karja finally turns into "Rollo" and it seems there's no hope, Lila simply disables her consciousness and makes her docile so we can keep playing as usual for a while longer, until the story shows us how it can resolve the problem. That is such a cop-out. It's plainly lazy storytelling, no two-ways about it.

4) THE OLD MAN'S IDENTITY

This one is rather nitpicky, I'll admit. I simply feel that the mystery of the old man's identity unravels earlier than I'd like. As soon and you see Lila and learn she was Rollo's wife, you're immediately taken back to the scene where you recover her picture from a chest in the old man's cellar. Granted, it's chapter eight out of ten, not exactly early, but even on the last chapter when Lila asks Adol for information on the old man, she then smiles to herself like "Oh, I've figured something out, but I'm not going to tell you", as if the story still expected his identity to be a reveal when it's obvious. There's literally no other character it could be.
My humbly proposed solution would be to play it up since the beginning of the story as if he could be Harr or Aegir, the Norman gods they most worship. For one, his design is very reminiscent of Odin and that has to be on purpose. On the other, Aegir is Lila's patron, so you can play up that relationship as misdirection. People could still figure it out, but them's the breaks with a mystery. Also, people tend to not be on the lookout for clues when they don't think there's a mystery around, so if they're convinced the old man is a god at first, the reveal may still come as a shock.

5) THE TIMELINE IS TOO ABRUPT

This final one is very nitpicky. Are you telling me that the ducky of Norgard, a stone city with towers that touched the sky and a marvel of engineering like the Lana floodgates was built in a lapse of roughly 10-15 years? (Considering how old Lana is by the time the calamity strikes) By a pack of raiding Normans? There's barely any stonework on Balta island one hundred and fifty years later!
Granted, they could've built it with Mana. We don't know how much more common it was in Rollo's youth, we're simply told that there's fewer mana users over time. Like I said, this one's a big nitpick.

If you've stuck it out until this point, thank you and if you have any comment on any or all of the topics I raised, I'd love to hear them.

[klaud]

I just stopped at number 2 and dont read nor care about anything else cause its too long (i didnt even finish reading the number 1 and 2),
but on the number 2 they are "puppet griegr" not griegr and only Jörð that can turn someone or something into "puppet" the other two can not do that.
I would guess that each member of the trident has their own special abilities?
Jörð can turn something into puppet
Lǫgr can produce mist
Óðr can put a curse

[Hikkichaos]

The way i see the Krangal island griegr is that his innate evil urges got to him in the end - no amount of love could save him, and his best bet was to get himself killed by us, so that he won't ever be able to hurt Raya.

PS: Is the Ys X: Proud Nordics an improved version, or is the Ys X: Nordics simply a beta version?

[Sevrojin]

Originally posted by Hikkichaos:

The way i see the Krangal island griegr is that his innate evil urges got to him in the end - no amount of love could save him, and his best bet was to get himself killed by us, so that he won't ever be able to hurt Raya.

PS: Is the Ys X: Proud Nordics an improved version, or is the Ys X: Nordics simply a beta version?

Proud is going to be mildly rewritten with new content to flesh out the story. or so i have read

[Ignis]

Originally posted by klaud:

I just stopped at number 2 and dont read nor care about anything else cause its too long (i didnt even finish reading the number 1 and 2)

Hey man; reading is hard. Thanks for sticking out as much as you did.

Originally posted by klaud:

but on the number 2 they are "puppet griegr" not griegr and only Jörð that can turn someone or something into "puppet" the other two can not do that.

"Puppet Griegr" is a term that Karja comes up with on the fly; it's just her shorthand for the Griegr made from the Carnac villagers. And given that some of them have distinct forms, or develop them later on - like Dogi, captain Gulliver or Rosalind - you just got to wonder if there weren't many Griegr that we killed who were originally human.
I agree with your point of it being Jörð's ability, but it doesn't explain the Griegr from Fuling island.

Originally posted by Hikkichaos:

The way i see the Krangal island griegr is that his innate evil urges got to him in the end - no amount of love could save him, and his best bet was to get himself killed by us, so that he won't ever be able to hurt Raya.

That could certainly be it; however, there's a cutscene that intentionally drives attention to a suspicious dish that was left out for the Griegr at the entrance of the mind. Why bring that up if it's not related? Then again, Why not follow it up if it is? It's certainly ambiguous.