new balancing

[Keyo]

did something happen in the last couple updates? the game became impossibly hard since I last played ... i have 400 hours in the game

like now, begining of game is similar, but towards the end, enemies just become super overpowered, I used to handle crowds of 20, now 3 stronger mobs mean sure death, those golems or those devils that teleport, it wasnt like this, and there is basically ZERO way to handle those, like I can only have so much spells, mana, speed, if they hit like a truck and take each many hits to die ..

this isnt fun really, i like healthy challenge, but this is anti-fun, had like 8 runs with different classees so far, mages, warrior, ranger, berserker, it doesnt matter ... the enemies just get boss level strong at some point ... towards the end of the game, suddenly the difficulty jumps up +200% and its sure death in 10-20 rounds

[Scar]

All enemies in the game had a bit of a HP increase, as T1 items were removed giving the player more T2+ items, and T3 items are becoming more powerful with bigger effects.

Which enemy do you mean by devils that teleport? The red guys with trample/lunge, demotaurs?

Screenshots of your character page/situations that you find difficult would be useful. Even better if you can record some gameplay.

Have you seen the new "game settings" options? A button was added to the new game page, which gives the players some options to make the game easier. 25% less dmg to the player, and 1 respawn per game. The idea is to expand this to give the player more control over the difficulty.

[Keyo]

okay i was able to win now with firamge, becase i got spell cost reduction and 3 mana tap, plus spamming that second fire spell that does absolutely bonkers damage, but that was pure luck with items ... this run was 5x easier than others ... i had run with knight and was getting only two hand weapons after having talents in shield :D, etc. everyone else, I had no good items, sometimes going with starting bow and such

yes in the other runs, honestly, i died most often at that first yendor level, where you have these fire towers and demoaturs, golems, sometimes toxic asassins, mixture of those, many of those teleport right away to you and swam you, unless i can cheese the game somehow, lie with this infinite cast mega dmg spell fire mage (and even that was tricky, almost died couple times), then its sure death

whichh is my problem with the balancing, i want to be able to win any seed, regardless of items, if thats impossible, its bad game design, if would be fine if it was rogue-like with permanent upgrades, but there is no benefit to losing run, so if badluck can mean 99.9% lose, its anti-fun ... if i have good luck, i want to enjoy strong build without thinking for a minute after each step like in chess, not that lucky build is the baseline of being even able to win at all

[Keyo]

in my opinion, the only way to balance this .. is to guarantee that some percentage of weapons/shrines, etc. will be perfect for the class .. so .. it should be guaranteed that if i pick ranger, i will somewhere on ground or in shop see viable T2 range weapon at least, like if i play mage and i just get melee weapons all day, and only see one crappy staff drop whole game, yea ... how do you then balance with lucky seed, where everything is perfect, you cant .. one is unwinnable, other is breeze ... i get the randomness of games, but it should have guardrails

[Scar]

The benefit of losing is learning what works/doesn't work, to improve next run. You should be gaining information every run that helps you progress further. If it feels like there is nothing that you could have done, that is a problem. I can guarantee that there is a way to win every seed (if you want share any seeds with race/class and I can record a run), however, the game is really bad at explaining how to achieve this, with various mechanics being hidden or not explained well. The difference between knowing specific tactics and not is huge, creating huge swings in difficulty. The danger school is one method being used to try share more of that information, have you tried it?

Do you use the game setting options? If not, check them out. When you say class specific drops, is that usually a weapon - Would an option for a guaranteed wish be enough to always give you good enough drops? What other options would you use?

[Bivoj]

After killing 1000 HP (exactly in ranked) final boss with basic weapon - cause 0 mele weps in all dung - im sure, we need one A scroll guarantied on merchant.

I feel like no big problem with normal situations in dung. There is problem to balancing rng like double ambush sucking you out of sources in combination with pit trap at end. But after 60 daily challenges wins in a row i must say, there is also good rng of scrolls or potions i can find to save a day. Achievements is only 3 wins in a row, so i think, difficulty is OK.

Keyo, i belive, you can find more advanced tactics about character build, positions, agro and focusing, which make game more easy for you, after time, like for me or for crazy speedy dungeon destroyer Scar :D You can watch his twitch stream or video on YT to be inspired by genuine tricks and mechanics ez outsmarting enemies.

After this i want to say again: "worst imbalance of all game is ogre slow". Why he is not moving diagonally, when SP is used? Its rly needed. Or another kind of rework. Today im on 61 winstreak run and im so lucky i got jump. https://imgur.com/Bb6q3Jw
Not like this player posting a short time ago https://imgur.com/8F6wMDS trapped forever.

Demotaur? Pffff... Real enemy is a wall!

[Keyo]

how do you win anything with troll if you have bad RNG for map size and meat drops? :/ for example ... everything winnable in theory (by lucking out where you go) is not the same .. as everyting winnable flexibly ... meaning ... i dont know where the meat is hiding, if i am trying to be savy with steps, not go to same part of map again, but still, i explore methodically, and i somehow go in wrong places, just by badluck .. and cant win .. its debatable then ... what is really skill issue .. skill issue should be knowledge .. not luck .. meaning not only luck in seed, but also luck in what you are doing when you dont see where is what ... unless meat is in specific places .. then ok .... but then how the hell am i supposed to learn such things ... by hacking the game and reading the code? aint no way i can decode such subtle patterns even if i played thousand runs

[Keyo]

and this i think is also a debate ... okay, if youre minmaxing speedrunning freak, you will know all the tricks ... but is this how a videogame should be tuned? to guarantee win condition only for these people? i disagree ... for these people there should be hardcore mode, ranked, whatever ... for normals ... the game should only expect the player to use average IQ and methods that the gameplay itself clearly teaches ... i am not dumb, but this game is not my job, i play to relax, and i dont want to have 10% winrate xD i want to have 50-75% winrate .. not to mention i dont even play challenging race/class combos

[Scar]

Originally posted by Keyo:

how do you win anything with troll if you have bad RNG for map size and meat drops? :/ for example ... everything winnable in theory (by lucking out where you go) is not the same .. as everyting winnable flexibly ... meaning ... i dont know where the meat is hiding, if i am trying to be savy with steps, not go to same part of map again, but still, i explore methodically, and i somehow go in wrong places, just by badluck .. and cant win .. its debatable then ... what is really skill issue .. skill issue should be knowledge .. not luck .. meaning not only luck in seed, but also luck in what you are doing when you dont see where is what ... unless meat is in specific places .. then ok .... but then how the hell am i supposed to learn such things ... by hacking the game and reading the code? aint no way i can decode such subtle patterns even if i played thousand runs

There is a minimum amount of food in the game that is enough to full clear as long as you are reasonably careful with how you explore, there should be no need to know exactly where it is. Food is guaranteed to spawn on the third floor of each zone, and at least one with each merchant (guaranteed merchant in the third zone, and in one of the SD). If you are dying to starvation on troll, the issue is not missing the food due to RNG, there is something else going wrong. Do you know that using shrooms costs trolls one food point?

I agree, you should be able to win using what the game teaches. Have you played the danger school levels?

I am a big proponent for additional difficulty settings, so everyone can enjoy the game. Do you use the current "game setting" options?

[Bivoj]

I had dream today abot buying food :D
Avoiding mushrooms when you not hungry is necessary. Buying food is needed like in 50% of runs. Try to avoid resting as much as posible.

Keyo, i dint mean "you need to be genius for succes". I mean "with expirience game going more and more easy." Game is pure rogueliKe without any metaprogress. All progress is in player mind and this, i think, is wery enjoyable. And sometime is just about reading descriptions, like with -1 food per shroom with troll. So i think is just matter of time and you can find game difficulty also enjoyable. Anyway, how is higher writen. Here is game options making game less punishing and all is still like work in progress, so you can sugest any idea what you want in options for more pleasant run. Im little surprised, when you see game that hard after 400 hours, but i belive, the final basic dfficulty will take all players response into account.