Hello Games? i dont think i can buy this not after....

[WarWolf]

I just want to see your all's opinions on this. After no man sky I felt very ripped off even though they did fix the game to be a little better. how do my fellow gamer's feel about this game. please no need to flame me or others on their opinions of this game. i just want to see honest opinions.

[Smash]

The initial launch of No Mans Sky was terrible, but they've spent 10 years fixing it up and adding free content. No the game is pretty close to what they originally promised, if some of the systems (i.e. Factions) are pretty shallow. I'm playing it at the moment and have been really enjoying it.

I think they have learned a lot of lessons from No Mans Sky, so I think they can absolutely pull off a good game here. Regardless of what you actually think of NMS, their procedural generation tech is pretty amazing and so I'm looking forward to see what they do with it here.

My advice to Hello games would be to try and make the systems more 'in-depth' than NMS. Make the combat more involved. Make me earn that dragon mount. Don't just give me an NPC quest to find an egg that just hatches into a pre-tamed dragon, with an RNG rating of C to S.

[Lindy Bomber]

Just go by what the store page says. Nothing stated before that is legally binding.

Projects with long development time lines can evolve quite a bit between concept and launch. Murray did state before [NMS] launch what wasn't going to be in the game at launch and they they were still working on it, but people have selective hearing and selective memories. What we are seeing in the LNF trailers is much closer to the finial product than the first NMS trailer.

[PhoenixPyre]

İlk olarak Smash tarafından gönderildi:

The initial launch of No Mans Sky was terrible, but they've spent 10 years fixing it up and adding free content. No the game is pretty close to what they originally promised, if some of the systems (i.e. Factions) are pretty shallow. I'm playing it at the moment and have been really enjoying it.

I think they have learned a lot of lessons from No Mans Sky, so I think they can absolutely pull off a good game here. Regardless of what you actually think of NMS, their procedural generation tech is pretty amazing and so I'm looking forward to see what they do with it here.

My advice to Hello games would be to try and make the systems more 'in-depth' than NMS. Make the combat more involved. Make me earn that dragon mount. Don't just give me an NPC quest to find an egg that just hatches into a pre-tamed dragon, with an RNG rating of C to S.

exactly this, im INCREDIBLY hyped to see how they employ all the lessons learned from No Mans Sky's launch as well as its history thereafter.

i have nothing but high hopes for this project.

[Aye Harambe]

İlk olarak Smash tarafından gönderildi:

The initial launch of No Mans Sky was terrible, but they've spent 10 years fixing it up and adding free content. No the game is pretty close to what they originally promised, if some of the systems (i.e. Factions) are pretty shallow. I'm playing it at the moment and have been really enjoying it.

I think they have learned a lot of lessons from No Mans Sky, so I think they can absolutely pull off a good game here. Regardless of what you actually think of NMS, their procedural generation tech is pretty amazing and so I'm looking forward to see what they do with it here.

My advice to Hello games would be to try and make the systems more 'in-depth' than NMS. Make the combat more involved. Make me earn that dragon mount. Don't just give me an NPC quest to find an egg that just hatches into a pre-tamed dragon, with an RNG rating of C to S.

They may have polished the game, but they absolutely did not deliver on their most meaningful promises that drove a lot of their sales.

You still can't pick a location and jet to it from where you are, because the game is still built with skyboxes. And no surprise, because it's literally impossible to do what they promised with the engine--which is why I don't care how good their game is now, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt ever again.

They lied, threatened reviewers, had a review blackout, and ignored people for half a year after release. Everything they did during the first year of that game's release was morally bankrupt. They are an unethical game company, and they don't deserve redemption anymore than another fraudster who did a few nice things after swindling 10 million people.

Maybe they'll make a decent game out of the gate this time, but I doubt it, and everyone who's interested should doubt it as well. They need to earn their sales.

[PopinFRESH]

If you feel ripped off by NMS at this point you are brain dead. They've delivered so much beyond the original vision (even the most over-hyped vision) at this point and all without any additional cost for any of the updates.

İlk olarak Aye Harambe tarafından gönderildi:

...
You still can't pick a location and jet to it from where you are, because the game is still built with skyboxes. And no surprise, because it's literally impossible to do what they promised with the engine--which is why I don't care how good their game is now, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt ever again.

wtf are you on about?

İlk olarak Aye Harambe tarafından gönderildi:

They lied, threatened reviewers, had a review blackout, and ignored people for half a year after release. Everything they did during the first year of that game's release was morally bankrupt. They are an unethical game company, and they don't deserve redemption anymore than another fraudster who did a few nice things after swindling 10 million people.

You gonna sauce all these claims? I think you are attributing Sonyisms to Hello Games.

İlk olarak PhoenixPyre tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Smash tarafından gönderildi:

The initial launch of No Mans Sky was terrible, but they've spent 10 years fixing it up and adding free content. No the game is pretty close to what they originally promised, if some of the systems (i.e. Factions) are pretty shallow. I'm playing it at the moment and have been really enjoying it.

I think they have learned a lot of lessons from No Mans Sky, so I think they can absolutely pull off a good game here. Regardless of what you actually think of NMS, their procedural generation tech is pretty amazing and so I'm looking forward to see what they do with it here.

My advice to Hello games would be to try and make the systems more 'in-depth' than NMS. Make the combat more involved. Make me earn that dragon mount. Don't just give me an NPC quest to find an egg that just hatches into a pre-tamed dragon, with an RNG rating of C to S.

exactly this, im INCREDIBLY hyped to see how they employ all the lessons learned from No Mans Sky's launch as well as its history thereafter.

i have nothing but high hopes for this project.

^this. Just from the trailer, it looks like they've scaled the procedural generation opposite from No Man's Sky; e.g. narrower scope in terms of quantity of planet/terrain and increased scope in terms of depth / detail. You can easily see the systems they've implemented as upgraded versions of what they've done in No Man's Sky (base building / crafting, etc).

The majority of things beyond the Desolation update were things beyond the original scope. Pretty much all of those updates (other than "next generation") were substantial updates that the majority of other studios would have released as $20-$30 DLCs. I'll happily give Hello Games $70 - $100 for Light No Fire just as a "reimbursement" for all of those DLCs; and I'm confident that they will continue to launch new content for it and improve it; regardless of how it is at launch.

[Aye Harambe]

İlk olarak PopinFRESH tarafından gönderildi:

If you feel ripped off by NMS at this point you are brain dead. They've delivered so much beyond the original vision (even the most over-hyped vision) at this point and all without any additional cost for any of the updates.

İlk olarak Aye Harambe tarafından gönderildi:

...
You still can't pick a location and jet to it from where you are, because the game is still built with skyboxes. And no surprise, because it's literally impossible to do what they promised with the engine--which is why I don't care how good their game is now, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt ever again.

wtf are you on about?

İlk olarak Aye Harambe tarafından gönderildi:

They lied, threatened reviewers, had a review blackout, and ignored people for half a year after release. Everything they did during the first year of that game's release was morally bankrupt. They are an unethical game company, and they don't deserve redemption anymore than another fraudster who did a few nice things after swindling 10 million people.

You gonna sauce all these claims? I think you are attributing Sonyisms to Hello Games.

İlk olarak PhoenixPyre tarafından gönderildi:

exactly this, im INCREDIBLY hyped to see how they employ all the lessons learned from No Mans Sky's launch as well as its history thereafter.

i have nothing but high hopes for this project.

^this. Just from the trailer, it looks like they've scaled the procedural generation opposite from No Man's Sky; e.g. narrower scope in terms of quantity of planet/terrain and increased scope in terms of depth / detail. You can easily see the systems they've implemented as upgraded versions of what they've done in No Man's Sky (base building / crafting, etc).

The majority of things beyond the Desolation update were things beyond the original scope. Pretty much all of those updates (other than "next generation") were substantial updates that the majority of other studios would have released as $20-$30 DLCs. I'll happily give Hello Games $70 - $100 for Light No Fire just as a "reimbursement" for all of those DLCs; and I'm confident that they will continue to launch new content for it and improve it; regardless of how it is at launch.

They didn't deliver the game they promised. Just because it's a game you like doesn't mean I'm stupid for being pissed that it's not the game they promised. You can disagree with me without throwing baseless insults.

Secondly, Sony didn't hire Murray. He's a Hello Games liability who ran around lying about the game for years, and he's still there. And what's he saying about this game? That it's going to to be the "first real open world" game. Laughable.

Thirdly, if I have to prove these basic statements I made, then you're not even educated enough on the topic to be insulting me. The review blackouts weren't some niche piece of intel I found on the darkweb. They literally announced they would be enforcing a review embargo.

Fourthly, that "free" DLC still didn't manage to fill in the dearth of content they promised. The NEXT update, which introduced multiplayer--WHICH SEAN SAID WAS ALREADY IN THE GAME AT RELEASE--didn't come out until two years after the games release.

And I quote, Sean Murray, the liar:

"When you and another player are in the same area, unlikely as it is given the scale of a universe, with planets that can be the size of Earth or bigger, you’ll be placed in the same lobby – in this lobby data is shared. The terrain one player blows up is visible on the other players machine, and so on and so forth."

"No Man’s Sky at its heart is a single player experience, it’s just set in a multiplayer universe. You can find your friends, but there’s no interaction to be had, no trading, no messaging system, etc. you can kill them if you’d like – but that wouldn’t accomplish much if you’re after a co-operative experience."

It was a flat-out lie. They released the game without a multiplayer ESRB warning, and packet sniffing proved the game was literally incapable of what Sean promised. They've done their best to scrub the internet of all his lies, but the Wayback Machine still shows quite a bit, even from their own website.

Freighter customization was in Desolation. That was another promised thing at launch. FOUR years after launch.

Sentinels. Promised at launch. DLC SIX years later.

Outlaws. Provides the ability to recruit a squadron of pilots. Promised at launch. Shown in the trailer. DLC SIX years later.

"I'll happily give Hello Games $70 - $100 for Light No Fire just as a "reimbursement" for all of those DLCs; and I'm confident that they will continue to launch new content for it and improve it; regardless of how it is at launch."

^ This is disturbing. I can't understand how you don't see yourself as part of the problem. There's nothing wrong with you liking the game, but it's problematic thinking they deserve additional "reimbursement" for eventually putting in the smaller content pieces they failed to provide at launch.

Imagine happily paying a car company MORE money because they installed the AC half a decade later.

[QuackAttack]

What do you mean by a 'little better', it literally has tons of content and updates way beyond what the fans demanded in the early days which is to have a multiplayer option but devs did way more than that since then. 'A little better' my ass, now you're just making stuff up just for something to hate on.

[Aye Harambe]

İlk olarak Quack Attack tarafından gönderildi:

What do you mean by a 'little better', it literally has tons of content and updates way beyond what the fans demanded in the early days which is to have a multiplayer option but devs did way more than that since then. 'A little better' my ass, now you're just making stuff up just for something to hate on.

But it's not way beyond what the fans demanded, most of the DLC was filling in the holes on the list of missing content that was meant to be in the release copy. Even after a eight years of updates it's missing stuff that was promised at the beginning, in no small part because the engine literally can't do what Sean promised.

I dunno, maybe you guys weren't here in the beginning, or Hello Games' memory holing and gaslighting is working, but the product you now see barely meets the expectations that Sean set for us 9 years ago. The many "little" things a lot of you see as trite or silly expectations were built up by Sean Murray to create the image of a true open world where every celestial body in the sky was something you could travel to and it would behave according to the rules of the universe.

It was such a magnificently overachieving promise that media reporting on it did so with significant skepticism. And now that Hello Games failed to deliver on that promise, it's considered a simple-minded and ridiculous expectation to be hung up on.

And then we see Sean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Murray stand up and announce to the world that they've created

[q]“The first real open world. Something without boundaries and we’re going to let everyone play in it together. It’s a place where people can live out their adventures together.”[/q]

And now all the stans are vacillating between "what a stupid thing to be upset about not having in No Man's Sky" and "omg what a great and world-changing concept to have for Light no Fire."

It'd be funny if the people falling for it weren't perpetuating problematic game development processes for the entire gaming industry.

[T-Rex_MD]

It’s moot.

[John Raeder]

I am very leery about companies that promise too much with the release. I will wait and see if they deliver but I have seen too many 'next best thing' projects crash and burn to invest in this game before it is released. IMO they should release a biome that is probably relatively tame, make sure that the stress testing works, then release DLC's of more content as the existing ones prove stable.

[SourceUnknown]

İlk olarak WarWolf tarafından gönderildi:

I just want to see your all's opinions on this. After no man sky I felt very ripped off even though they did fix the game to be a little better. how do my fellow gamer's feel about this game. please no need to flame me or others on their opinions of this game. i just want to see honest opinions.

First, lets address that you want someones honest opinion but you dont want to be called out for your opinion, no matter how skewed it may seem? My friend, you lay your opinions out there, they will be scrutinized or praised, you cant have one without the other, thats life!

With that said, lets address the part of your statement that sorta irked me the most...They fixed the game (NMS) "a little better"? Thats a understatement my friend... NMS is a monster now and is one of the most played games in the last 5 years. I would say they did a hell of a lot more than make the game "a little better".

If you are still holding on to past grudges and cant see past mistakes being corrected then you obviously have a problem and cant seem to forgive anyone or anything from making a mistake. How many mistakes have you made this week, let alone your whole life? I wonder if anyone has forgiven you for those mistakes when you have tried to redeem yourself? Maybe look inward first and realize we are all human, we ALL make mistakes! Its important we recognize them and try our best to redeem ourselves and make things right to the best of our ability. Forgiveness is important when one has redeemed themselves in light of...if you cant ever forgive then people just wont give a ♥♥♥♥ and wont bother with doing whats right...

Im not here to lecture you, though you seem to need it... Ill address the game now. In LIGHT of the mistakes NMS went through and has been REDEEMED by actions leading to what the game is now...I dont have too much of a problem with how this game will turn out. Im giving the benefit of the doubt here and will HOPE for the best. If they make the same mistakes they did with NMS release, I will criticize it and refuse to buy it till they have REDEEMED themselves and the game goes on sale for 50+% off, lol... Otherwise, if the game is released in a great state (I can overlook a few things at release within reason) then I will gladly support the development and see where things go... No ones guaranteed anything here, we just hope for the best and that the development team does all they can to bring about a pretty awesome game. They really cant afford another NMS release debacle, so I have high hopes for LNF...

[Soren]

From my perspective. It wasn't cool to release it when it was so vastly different from what they were promising. Sean's ideas and goals for the game were ambitious. An important thing to note is that many developers/publishers do talk about features they plan to add before they are done or added. And I don't think the plan was to lie about the features and things he wanted to be in the game at launch. But the decision/blame got solely thrusted upon on Hello Games when there were many elements at play that forced them to release early. Does Sony get any blame despite them probably pressuring Hello Games to release it before it was ready? Never.

This isn't to say you should not be sceptical of Hello Games and Light No Fire. Probably don't pre-order and instead wait for reviews unless you're coming in with the mindset that you have to buy and try the game yourself no matter what anyone says.

[MadDawg2552]

İlk olarak Aye Harambe tarafından gönderildi:

They didn't deliver the game they promised. Just because it's a game you like doesn't mean I'm stupid for being pissed that it's not the game they promised. You can disagree with me without throwing baseless insults.

You're going to have to prove this point, at least. NMS is exactly the game they promised back when it first released, after all the updates they put into it.

Show me a list of promises they made about the game that they didn't keep.

[grimgary]

I think it's fine to be cautiosouly pressimistic. But. Utterly shunning a company for a trangression almost 8 years ago who then put out 20+ Free updates in that time just seems silly. If NMS just didn't turn out how you like after all this time, that's a you problem at this point.

I remain cautiously optomistic. Becausse yes. I may overthink what might be in this game and its potential. So I reserve my excitement to see what actually comes out.

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

NMS went from being 'uh, i guess this is okay?' to almost inarguably the best game in its admittedly niche genre

i think too many people forget that the foundation NMS was sitting on right from launch was fine, and ultimately just needed tweaking and additional content. it was not 'bad' at launch so long as you were interested in doing survival/exploration. it's certainly more than that now, with competent combat and base building and collect-a-thon'ing... but the original package was good for what it was. just not that many people enjoy survival/exploration (which is fine) and projected their own wants onto the game instead of accepting that it wasn't a genre they enjoyed (which is not so fine)

i expect LNF to be another niche survival / exploration game. so... do you enjoy those? do you enjoy managing a hunger / energy / whatever meter? do you enjoy a PvE experience with ENVIRONMENT being heavily emphasised, where the puzzle is learning how to efficiently pack survival material, creating caches, reading the terrain and learning what is worth your time / energy / carrying capacity to collect?

if you don't enjoy those things... well, probably LNF is not going to be your cup of tea (unless Hello Games is doing something wildly different, which there is no indicator of). if what you want is a big hand-crafted adventure, baldur's gate is right there for you. among other such games. LNF is probably not going to be that at all

i'm sure on release it will receive the same backlash NMS did as a 'walking simulator', with caveats added that it just 'needs some future updates' or whatever, mostly from folks that don't enjoy survival / exploration games and feel that the genre just shouldn't even exist or only exists to badly imitate adventure-oriented / action-oriented games. that surely nobody would enjoy going on a digital hike through a fantastical landscape

here is my play expectation for LNF:

i will go on many hikes up mountains and discover things like secluded lakes, rivers and waterfalls (big maybe on the last one - waterfalls are tricky). and the whole experience will be beautiful and drinkable - not any one thing. just going out and managing supplies and discovering a place. this was fun on day 1 of NMS for me, i suspect it'll be an even richer experience in LNF

here is what i suspect people will project into LNF and be disappointed by the lack of:

NPCs with quests to go do, factional conflict to participate in, complex combat mechanics / magic systems, big set piece adventure hubs, a 'main quest' that is meant to be anything other than a valley you slowly cut through as you explore

youtube and twitch will be full of cynical / angry / belligerent 'content creators', some genuinely frustrated and some playing at frustration for cheap entertainment, fast-travelling around all of the game's content and then demanding to know where the content is. not going on a journey and then claiming that no journey was provided to them


if NMS is precedent, then LNF will not be an adventure in a facsimile of wilderness. it will be simply be a wilderness

that gets me really excited, but it's also become very clear to me that it will set-up folks for disappointment