Allison vs. Eaton Transmissions

[HuskyDynamics]

I've seen various threads and posts discussing this, but haven't managed to get a clear answer yet.

So what's the effective difference between the Eaton and Allison transmission types? I know that the Allisons are designed as "automatic", but the Eatons have far more gears available. Additionally, despite costing as much or more than the Eatons, the Allison transmissions appear to be far less effective based on the performance estimates given when you swap them. Is there any reason to favor the Allison transmissions over the Eaton ones? Is one type better with certain weights or certain terrain than the other?

Note: I play on keyboard and as such have the game set to automatic, so shifting isn't an issue for me.


Edit: I did some testing while doing a few heavy-haul jobs, and the Allison appears to have better get-up-and-go and slightly (?) better fuel consumption, but seems slow to accelerate above 40 or 50, whereas the Eaton seems to power through but is slower to start. Is this accurate?

[Sandhill]

Allisons are true "automatic" (slushbox) transmissions. No shaft connects the engine to the driveshaft, it is done hydraulically, the engine creating a flow which impels the drive shaft. The EF transmissions are simple manuals, with the option of a computer controlled servo system to take over the mechanics of the shifting, thus offering an "automated" option.
The "performance estimates" as you call them are nonsense and have nothing to do with any game element. Best ignored or in a perfect world turned off entirely.
My experience is that the 7 speed Allisons are so superior to any of the EF's in acceleration that it is almost an unfair exploit to use them, although in a trip that mostly involved going uphill with a very heavy load an 18 speed EF might catch up overall. Otherwise I think you always arrive sooner with an Allison 7.

[Goggles56]

With fewer gears the Allison can get going better up to a point. Light loads or empty would be good for the Allison but if you were shifting with a stick you could start off in 3rd low, shift to 5th low then 6th high and be real gone. If you have to shift every gear with an 18 speed when lightly loaded you are going to be one busy bunny. So it's not apples to apples.

If you are doing heavy hauls with the keyboard on automatic I'd go with the 13 or 18 speed and the Allison for lighter loads.

[anomaly.va]

So, take this from a former over-the-road trucker who has really driven several of the trucks in this game, equipped with most of the more basic transmissions in this game...

The Allisons will have slightly better get-up-and-go with moderate loads under normal to moderate conditions, but fewer forward gears mean taller gearing ratios, which mean a wider speed gap between gears, causing the engine to quickly lug and lose steam on hills with heavy loads. as the previous poster mentioned. I guess most would say, "Who cares?" since the trans will automatically shift itself down or up as needed, but that's the why of it.

Whereas, depending on conditions and the specific transmission in question, the Eaton-Fullers can pull hills moderately to far better with heavy loads, owing to their closer gearing and overlap between. As a former trucker, I can explain the Eaton-Fuller setups. This is good info for people who use a shifter setup, especially the actual modified Eaton-Fuller units.

Essentially, you can think of the Eaton-Fuller 10-speed as a 5-speed, with a low-high range selector (aka splitter) for output to the drive axles. giving each position a high and low range, or five low gears, and five high gears. The shift pattern is as follows:

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.J26rkY7I5D6xeviSD48bawHaEO&pid=Api&P=0&w=333&h=191

The R is hard to see as it is inverted to the background color, but it is in the upper LEFT corner (as opposed to the lower right in conventional vehicle manuals). Although high-range reversing with a trailer in close quarters is not for the faint of heart -- I have done so in real life. Technically, you are not even supposed to split gears in reverse, but it can be done.

With the 10, you start in the 1/6 position with the splitter in low (down). Keeping the splitter down, you shift to 2/7, 3/8, 4/9, then 5/10. When you come out of 5/10, you flip the splitter up for high range, then move the gear shift lever back over to the 1/6 postiion, then repeat to 2/7, 3/8, 4/9, then 5/10.

Depending on rear axle gearing, on the real thing, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are good for about 2-3 mph speed difference per gear in a typical 1100-1500 rpm range. 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 are good for about 8-12 mph difference per gear with that same 1100-1500 rpm range.

If you pay close attention, you will see that the 10-speed typically has a 400-500 rpm difference (depending on axle gear ratio) between consecutive gears up or down, within the same range. This is okay for highway cruising without a lot of hills or mountains, but can be a bit cumbersome on hills and mountains even with moderate loads, as most engines feel strangled, either lugging in one gear or screaming in the next one down.

The 13s and 18s solve this problem by adding more gears that allow a 200 rpm change between gears within a given range, but are a bit trickier to drive in real life. Here is the 13's pattern.

https://ww2-secure.justanswer.com/uploads/JA/JANECZFJ/2013-08-17_104831_8-17-2013_6-34-09_am.jpg

First difference here is a 10-speed has two gears in the lower-left position -- 1/6, but the 13-speed only has one -- Low. And unlike the 10's 1/6 position, the 13's Low cannot be split, nor can any other gear with the main splitter in Low range (flipped down). Also, what were 2/7, 3/8, 4/9 and 5/10 on the 10-speed, are 1/5, 2/6, 3/7, and 4/8 on the 13-speed. Wait, that sounds like an eight-or-nine-speed, you might say, and you're right, until you activate the second splitter, which engages gearing with a 200 rpm difference as opposed to the 10-speed's 400-500. Low, 1/5, 2/6, 3/7, and 4/8 make nine forward gears, the aux splitter gives four more gears in the numbered positions with the main splitter in high range, totaling 13, including low. If you know what a four-speed with "granny-low" is, the 13-speed sort of expands on that.

Essentially, the 13-speed adds a second splitter to allow a 'medium' range between gears, but ONLY WITH THE MAIN SPLITTER IN HIGH, NOT LOW. This is essentially a means of giving the driver the ability to find a more suitable gear for pulling hills without slowing to a crawl with most loads, but conditions requiring speed between 25-35 mph will generally slow the truck to a crawl, as the engine will lug with both splitters in High.

Here is the 18's pattern.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/313367058243466787/6C2CEA659C4BAFCD913D0012955CAE6BC5B41313/

Just like the 13-speed, the 1/6 position from the 10-speed is referred to as L (Low), and the 4 main positions are 1/5, 2/6, /3/7, 4/8. However, unlike the 10 and 13, the 18-speed's Low can be split, owing to its second auxiliary splitter. And that second splitter allows splitting any gear, even with the Main splitter in Low range (1-5 on the ten-speed).

This is pretty much a heavy-haul / "superload" transmission. It can be driven like any 10 or 13 without using the aux splitters, but these transmissions are designed to best utilize the engine's torque for maintaining a steady pull up steep grades with a heavy load by allowing the driver to find a more comfortable RPM on hills at any speed with any load, but like the 13-speed, they are a bit trickier to drive.

Of note with both the 13 and 18, any gear position split with either aux splitters should generally put you 200 rpm between the closest alternate positions, which can mean 1-2 mph in the lowest ranges, or 4-8 mph difference in the higher ranges. Hence, they allow the engine to pull harder without sacrificing a lot of speed to pull hills.

I have yet to upgrade to a shifter / wheel setup myself, but it'd really be nice to find that SCS allowed a typical six-gate shifter setup to be used with buttons for main / aux / secondary splitters to truly emulate a real 10, 13, or 18-speed Eaton-Fuller. If you look at the shift pattern, you'll see it uses the same six-gate setup. :)

[Goggles56]

A lot of us are using 6 gate shifters and some like me are using 8 gate units but only 6 of them in the game. There are various shift knobs available that have range and splitter switches. Some like mine have a jake button as well. It really adds to the quality of the game play.

The game allows for 10 13 and 18 speed Eaton Fuller transmissions as well as some others that I'm not familiar with.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

So, take this from a former over-the-road trucker who has really driven several of the trucks in this game, equipped with most of the more basic transmissions in this game...

But the game does not always simulate real life. The Allison 7 is vastly superior to any of the EF transmissions in game in all but a very limited set of circumstances. Don't neglect the torque multiplication factor provided, which seems to give you engines that effectively have about 5000 lb-ft of torque.
In game you occasionally climb from say Denver to the Eisenhower-Johnson tunnels, where an EF 18 might briefly show some advantage, but you are much more often accelerating from a stop or from 35 mph to 65 mph while merging, and regardless of weight hauled the Allison will eat the Eaton alive in all such circumstances. I'd bet that for 9 of 10 trips the Allison will get you there sooner.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

I have yet to upgrade to a shifter / wheel setup myself, but it'd really be nice to find that SCS allowed a typical six-gate shifter setup to be used with buttons for main / aux / secondary splitters to truly emulate a real 10, 13, or 18-speed Eaton-Fuller. If you look at the shift pattern, you'll see it uses the same six-gate setup. :)

I have always had a shifter and so have never tried, but can't you assign six keys as shifter positions? I'm sure that you can assign keys as range up/down and splitter hi/lo, so it seems very doable...

[anomaly.va]

Originally posted by Sandhill:

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

I have yet to upgrade to a shifter / wheel setup myself, but it'd really be nice to find that SCS allowed a typical six-gate shifter setup to be used with buttons for main / aux / secondary splitters to truly emulate a real 10, 13, or 18-speed Eaton-Fuller. If you look at the shift pattern, you'll see it uses the same six-gate setup. :)

I have always had a shifter and so have never tried, but can't you assign six keys as shifter positions? I'm sure that you can assign keys as range up/down and splitter hi/lo, so it seems very doable...:cozybethesda:

Six. yes. But ten? Thirteen? Eighteen? No matter, I just ordered a T300 and THM8. Also ordered the Southern Trucker Eaton-Fuller shifter and thinking about the Heavy Hauler dash box.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

Six. yes. But ten? Thirteen? Eighteen? No matter, I just ordered a T300 and THM8. Also ordered the Southern Trucker Eaton-Fuller shifter and thinking about the Heavy Hauler dash box.

You have lost me entirely. Yes six, for the six stick positions necessary.
You'll love the TH8 by the way, I think that it is the best shifter for trucking.
There are far less expensive alternatives to the ASP box (like a third the cost for equal functionality) and you can DIY one for a tiny fraction of even that, but it does have a nice look, if that's worth the extra cash.

[anomaly.va]

Originally posted by Sandhill:

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

Six. yes. But ten? Thirteen? Eighteen? No matter, I just ordered a T300 and THM8. Also ordered the Southern Trucker Eaton-Fuller shifter and thinking about the Heavy Hauler dash box.

You have lost me entirely. Yes six, for the six stick positions necessary.
You'll love the TH8 by the way, I think that it is the best shifter for trucking.

These trucks have 10-speed, 13-speed, and 18-speed transmissions. You can't possibly remember key bindings for all positions. It's much easier to have simple upshift / downshift key bindings if playing on a keyboard. And yes, all my research pointed to the T300 and TH8. I lost all interest in the G923 after finding out its shifter was proprietary and sold separately. Thrustmaster's is too, but I understand it can be used with other wheels.

[Sandhill]

No comparison in quality (or price) between the TM shifter and the Logitech shifter (which can be used as a standalone USB device like the TM using an adapter).
Key binding wise you can do an EF pattern just using the Num key pad, 1-6 for the stick positions, choose two keys for Hi and Lo split, choose two keys for range up and down, and you're done. I'd guess easy to use, really nothing to remember.

[anomaly.va]

Originally posted by Sandhill:

No comparison in quality (or price) between the TM shifter and the Logitech shifter (which can be used as a standalone USB device like the TM using an adapter).
Key binding wise you can do an EF pattern just using the Num key pad, 1-6 for the stick positions, choose two keys for Hi and Lo split, choose two keys for range up and down, and you're done. I'd guess easy to use, really nothing to remember.

Trouble with that is, my fingers don't quite span enough to do all that. LOL. Shifter with splitter switches is easier.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

Originally posted by Sandhill:

No comparison in quality (or price) between the TM shifter and the Logitech shifter (which can be used as a standalone USB device like the TM using an adapter).
Key binding wise you can do an EF pattern just using the Num key pad, 1-6 for the stick positions, choose two keys for Hi and Lo split, choose two keys for range up and down, and you're done. I'd guess easy to use, really nothing to remember.

Trouble with that is, my fingers don't quite span enough to do all that. LOL. Shifter with splitter switches is easier.

Was assuming a KB with a number pad, if without you'd have to choose keys in among the letters, which would certainly be less intuitive

[anomaly.va]

Originally posted by Sandhill:

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

Trouble with that is, my fingers don't quite span enough to do all that. LOL. Shifter with splitter switches is easier.

Was assuming a KB with a number pad, if without you'd have to choose keys in among the letters, which would certainly be less intuitive :lunar2019smilingpig:

One little problem with that one. My number pad 1-9 is left signal, brake, right signal, left steer, center view, right steer, look left, accelerate, look right. So... Wheel with shifter and pedals are best for my situation -- before I get carpal tunnel.

[lrrcp90]

Originally posted by anomaly.va:

So, take this from a former over-the-road trucker who has really driven several of the trucks in this game, equipped with most of the more basic transmissions in this game...

The Allisons will have slightly better get-up-and-go with moderate loads under normal to moderate conditions, but fewer forward gears mean taller gearing ratios, which mean a wider speed gap between gears, causing the engine to quickly lug and lose steam on hills with heavy loads. as the previous poster mentioned. I guess most would say, "Who cares?" since the trans will automatically shift itself down or up as needed, but that's the why of it.

Whereas, depending on conditions and the specific transmission in question, the Eaton-Fullers can pull hills moderately to far better with heavy loads, owing to their closer gearing and overlap between. As a former trucker, I can explain the Eaton-Fuller setups. This is good info for people who use a shifter setup, especially the actual modified Eaton-Fuller units.

Essentially, you can think of the Eaton-Fuller 10-speed as a 5-speed, with a low-high range selector (aka splitter) for output to the drive axles. giving each position a high and low range, or five low gears, and five high gears. The shift pattern is as follows:

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.J26rkY7I5D6xeviSD48bawHaEO&pid=Api&P=0&w=333&h=191

The R is hard to see as it is inverted to the background color, but it is in the upper LEFT corner (as opposed to the lower right in conventional vehicle manuals). Although high-range reversing with a trailer in close quarters is not for the faint of heart -- I have done so in real life. Technically, you are not even supposed to split gears in reverse, but it can be done.

With the 10, you start in the 1/6 position with the splitter in low (down). Keeping the splitter down, you shift to 2/7, 3/8, 4/9, then 5/10. When you come out of 5/10, you flip the splitter up for high range, then move the gear shift lever back over to the 1/6 postiion, then repeat to 2/7, 3/8, 4/9, then 5/10.

Depending on rear axle gearing, on the real thing, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are good for about 2-3 mph speed difference per gear in a typical 1100-1500 rpm range. 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 are good for about 8-12 mph difference per gear with that same 1100-1500 rpm range.

If you pay close attention, you will see that the 10-speed typically has a 400-500 rpm difference (depending on axle gear ratio) between consecutive gears up or down, within the same range. This is okay for highway cruising without a lot of hills or mountains, but can be a bit cumbersome on hills and mountains even with moderate loads, as most engines feel strangled, either lugging in one gear or screaming in the next one down.

The 13s and 18s solve this problem by adding more gears that allow a 200 rpm change between gears within a given range, but are a bit trickier to drive in real life. Here is the 13's pattern.

https://ww2-secure.justanswer.com/uploads/JA/JANECZFJ/2013-08-17_104831_8-17-2013_6-34-09_am.jpg

First difference here is a 10-speed has two gears in the lower-left position -- 1/6, but the 13-speed only has one -- Low. And unlike the 10's 1/6 position, the 13's Low cannot be split, nor can any other gear with the main splitter in Low range (flipped down). Also, what were 2/7, 3/8, 4/9 and 5/10 on the 10-speed, are 1/5, 2/6, 3/7, and 4/8 on the 13-speed. Wait, that sounds like an eight-or-nine-speed, you might say, and you're right, until you activate the second splitter, which engages gearing with a 200 rpm difference as opposed to the 10-speed's 400-500. Low, 1/5, 2/6, 3/7, and 4/8 make nine forward gears, the aux splitter gives four more gears in the numbered positions with the main splitter in high range, totaling 13, including low. If you know what a four-speed with "granny-low" is, the 13-speed sort of expands on that.

Essentially, the 13-speed adds a second splitter to allow a 'medium' range between gears, but ONLY WITH THE MAIN SPLITTER IN HIGH, NOT LOW. This is essentially a means of giving the driver the ability to find a more suitable gear for pulling hills without slowing to a crawl with most loads, but conditions requiring speed between 25-35 mph will generally slow the truck to a crawl, as the engine will lug with both splitters in High.

Here is the 18's pattern.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/313367058243466787/6C2CEA659C4BAFCD913D0012955CAE6BC5B41313/

Just like the 13-speed, the 1/6 position from the 10-speed is referred to as L (Low), and the 4 main positions are 1/5, 2/6, /3/7, 4/8. However, unlike the 10 and 13, the 18-speed's Low can be split, owing to its second auxiliary splitter. And that second splitter allows splitting any gear, even with the Main splitter in Low range (1-5 on the ten-speed).

This is pretty much a heavy-haul / "superload" transmission. It can be driven like any 10 or 13 without using the aux splitters, but these transmissions are designed to best utilize the engine's torque for maintaining a steady pull up steep grades with a heavy load by allowing the driver to find a more comfortable RPM on hills at any speed with any load, but like the 13-speed, they are a bit trickier to drive.

Of note with both the 13 and 18, any gear position split with either aux splitters should generally put you 200 rpm between the closest alternate positions, which can mean 1-2 mph in the lowest ranges, or 4-8 mph difference in the higher ranges. Hence, they allow the engine to pull harder without sacrificing a lot of speed to pull hills.

I have yet to upgrade to a shifter / wheel setup myself, but it'd really be nice to find that SCS allowed a typical six-gate shifter setup to be used with buttons for main / aux / secondary splitters to truly emulate a real 10, 13, or 18-speed Eaton-Fuller. If you look at the shift pattern, you'll see it uses the same six-gate setup. :)

most would skip shift a manual 10 going 2-4-6-7-8-9-10
KW AMT's dont seem to skip shift (from my time driving them)
Frightliner AMT does skip shift sometimes all the way to 12th gear.

[anomaly.va]

Originally posted by lrrcp90:

most would skip shift a manual 10 going 2-4-6-7-8-9-10
KW AMT's dont seem to skip shift (from my time driving them)
Frightliner AMT does skip shift sometimes all the way to 12th gear.

I think it really depends on the load weight, pulling a trailer vs bobtail, how much power the engine has, and how much the driver is pushing the accelerator. I drove a few of those crummy Volvo iShi(f)ts and it would skip. Never drove a Paccar with an automated manual so I have no basis for comparison. Either way, crummy setup.