Pvp vs pve .... extraction shooters need the pvp element

[Buck {Jomsvikings}]

Let me say I enjoy both playstyles , I loved helldivers warframe etc but I also don't shy away from pvp games like dayz DMZ arena breakout etc but some games just need the pvp element , and hopefully this game don't change the playloop too much it's odd to me how ppl want every game to be pve and can't just try it out and claim pvp will kill it when dayz has seen a huge resurgence reforger is booming COD is thriving if done right pvp games have longevity , I guess as someone who enjoys both playstyles it's mind boggling that every game that has pvp ppl come out wanting it to cater to them, not every game will please everyone that doesn't mean it will fail . I'll use grayzone for instance as to why extraction shooters with pve modes don't mesh i was super hyped for that game and the pve mode, but after a couple weeks it got dull not having to worry about the other faction so we started doing the pvp mode ... well that was JUST Ppl headhunting with maxed out gear they got in pve and felt less like a extraction shooter and more like just a chad filled pvp lobby 🙄 the pvp pve devide hurts this genre of shooter in my opinion

[Doctor Liu]

+1 pve

[Snyper64]

They really just need to add restrictions to loadouts to the maps. First map should be capped at blue gear and 20,000 worth of gear total.

[Buck {Jomsvikings}]

Originally posted by Snyper64:

They really just need to add restrictions to loadouts to the maps. First map should be capped at blue gear and 20,000 worth of gear total.

This would be a good change

[radikusprime]

In most games like this.. the Hardcore PvPers overwhelm and crush the "new experience" and less capable players leave.. and the game dies. If people, I dunno, stop being shoot on site this game would work. Now before anyone says "well thats what PVP is" you know exactly what I am saying so stop it. You know how many people I let get on the drop-ship with me if they don't shoot at me first? All of them. You know how many people shoot at me.. when I get near their evac and I put my weapon away and scream.. I come in peace.. ALL OF THEM lol. Just this last match.. I was waiting for evac.. a duo came running.. and tried to down me. They failed.. and i took all the loot i could carry from them. I didn't want to.. they could have gotten ride out to finish what ever quests they needed, but nope.. PvP for PvP sakes I guess....

[Snyper64]

Originally posted by radikusprime:

In most games like this.. the Hardcore PvPers overwhelm and crush the "new experience" and less capable players leave.. and the game dies. If people, I dunno, stop being shoot on site this game would work. Now before anyone says "well thats what PVP is" you know exactly what I am saying so stop it. You know how many people I let get on the drop-ship with me if they don't shoot at me first? All of them. You know how many people shoot at me.. when I get near their evac and I put my weapon away and scream.. I come in peace.. ALL OF THEM lol. Just this last match.. I was waiting for evac.. a duo came running.. and tried to down me. They failed.. and i took all the loot i could carry from them. I didn't want to.. they could have gotten ride out to finish what ever quests they needed, but nope.. PvP for PvP sakes I guess....

The game is still in play testing so a lot of people don't care if they lose out on loot and just PVP the maps. Final release when you won't be having a reset every month and drop rates/chances change this could change. If it's harder to gain money people will think twice about PVP if it means that they will be losing out harder when they lose.

[AnInfiniteArc]

Originally posted by Spazztic:

if you dont want pvp, dont play a pvp game. Go play wow.

Nah, this is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ take. WoW is not a scifi extraction shooter.

[Buck {Jomsvikings}]

Originally posted by AnInfiniteArc:

Originally posted by Spazztic:

if you dont want pvp, dont play a pvp game. Go play wow.

Nah, this is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ take. WoW is not a scifi extraction shooter.

is there not pve scifi games ? helldivers warframe etc ? not every game has to cater to pve let a game have pvp

[Warchild]

Originally posted by Spazztic:

if you dont want pvp, dont play a pvp game. Go play wow.

Such a bad statement. Its not WRONG to like a game but HATE the pvp element. Toxic players kill these games, thats why a new one comes out every few weeks to people move to the next. Its not hard to see the gamers and market WANT pve options without tryhards killing them.

[Buck {Jomsvikings}]

Originally posted by Warchild:

Originally posted by Spazztic:

if you dont want pvp, dont play a pvp game. Go play wow.

Such a bad statement. Its not WRONG to like a game but HATE the pvp element. Toxic players kill these games, thats why a new one comes out every few weeks to people move to the next. Its not hard to see the gamers and market WANT pve options without tryhards killing them.

not all pvp shooters fail Dayz has had record numbers this last year , reforger is huge right now DMZ did well and still has players , Hunt showdown PubG etc .... i enjoy pve games aswell i just think extraction games need the pvp element to be good why cant a game just have pvp like its designed for ?

[Voodoo]

I've quit the beta after being repeatedly ganked at extraction by the same ppl who do nothing but camp an extraction for hours. This behavior is heavily incentified, and there is not much counterplay to it. Idk who thought it was a good idea to announce to the whole map where you are extracting, and when exactly you're going to be a sitting duck in a space of several square feet.

Let it be PvEvP, but do the PvP part right at least. If you can't do the extraction part in extraction shooter right, well... implications unpleasant.

[Buck {Jomsvikings}]

Originally posted by Voodoo:

I've quit the beta after being repeatedly ganked at extraction by the same ppl who do nothing but camp an extraction for hours. This behavior is heavily incentified, and there is not much counterplay to it. Idk who thought it was a good idea to announce to the whole map where you are extracting, and when exactly you're going to be a sitting duck in a space of several square feet.

Let it be PvEvP, but do the PvP part right at least. If you can't do the extraction part in extraction shooter right, well... implications unpleasant.

i dunno out of endless matches i have only encountered this like 5xs tops and twice was able to drop the "campers" im willing to bet you are exagerating

[Hawksbri]

Every PvEvP game has died within 2 years. Just look at the predecessors of this game:
THE CYCLE: FRONTIER
SCAVENGERS
Both are dead. Why? Sweats and Cheaters. Want to get to the end? Sorry, the escape pods were camped, and aim-bots are active with turrets and anti-personnel mines to assist the cheaters and sweats.
Now... as HAS been suggested, to keep the game from dying, add PvE, PvP, and PvEvP choice modes. This will make it relatable to Fortnite, Call of Duty, Warframe, and Helldivers 2, while also giving the PvEvPers their glory days of Scavengers and The Cycle.

This will also allow us Casuals to enjoy both PvP and/or PvE, with a full focus, and not feel frustrated by losing all of our stuff from somebody being a jerk, and gunning us down while we're focused on an NPC fight.... which is why Scavengers and The Cycle died... because us Casuals were literally chased out, frustrated from not being able to find any sort of success. We quit, and obviously the games died from lack of success of holding onto their playerbases. This shows just how badly PvEvP games have it, between PvP and PvE games, and not being able to keep Casuals.

[Buck {Jomsvikings}]

Originally posted by Hawksbri:

Every PvEvP game has died within 2 years. Just look at the predecessors of this game:
THE CYCLE: FRONTIER
SCAVENGERS
Both are dead. Why? Sweats and Cheaters. Want to get to the end? Sorry, the escape pods were camped, and aim-bots are active with turrets and anti-personnel mines to assist the cheaters and sweats.
Now... as HAS been suggested, to keep the game from dying, add PvE, PvP, and PvEvP choice modes. This will make it relatable to Fortnite, Call of Duty, Warframe, and Helldivers 2, while also giving the PvEvPers their glory days of Scavengers and The Cycle.

This will also allow us Casuals to enjoy both PvP and/or PvE, with a full focus, and not feel frustrated by losing all of our stuff from somebody being a jerk, and gunning us down while we're focused on an NPC fight.... which is why Scavengers and The Cycle died... because us Casuals were literally chased out, frustrated from not being able to find any sort of success. We quit, and obviously the games died from lack of success of holding onto their playerbases. This shows just how badly PvEvP games have it, between PvP and PvE games, and not being able to keep Casuals.

not every extraction pvpve game has died in 2 years..... you named two examples that were poorly done or lacked content tarkov was around for years Hunt showdown , DMZ hell Arena breakout has been around for longer than 2 years in mobile form and pc testing

[anrew]

Originally posted by Hawksbri:

Every PvEvP game has died within 2 years. Just look at the predecessors of this game:
THE CYCLE: FRONTIER
SCAVENGERS
Both are dead. Why? Sweats and Cheaters. Want to get to the end? Sorry, the escape pods were camped, and aim-bots are active with turrets and anti-personnel mines to assist the cheaters and sweats.
Now... as HAS been suggested, to keep the game from dying, add PvE, PvP, and PvEvP choice modes. This will make it relatable to Fortnite, Call of Duty, Warframe, and Helldivers 2, while also giving the PvEvPers their glory days of Scavengers and The Cycle.

This will also allow us Casuals to enjoy both PvP and/or PvE, with a full focus, and not feel frustrated by losing all of our stuff from somebody being a jerk, and gunning us down while we're focused on an NPC fight.... which is why Scavengers and The Cycle died... because us Casuals were literally chased out, frustrated from not being able to find any sort of success. We quit, and obviously the games died from lack of success of holding onto their playerbases. This shows just how badly PvEvP games have it, between PvP and PvE games, and not being able to keep Casuals.

Cheaters are the only reason I would want a PVE extraction shooter. I played a lot of Tarkov, and cheaters ruined the PVP experience for me, and I ended up really enjoying the PVE version of the game. However, I play extraction shooters for the risk/reward element. An extraction shooter should make it so that the more gear you risk, the stronger are. Most extraction shooters didn't do a great job with that concept. The Cycle was great but a lot of the gear was imbalanced. No one was using the golden rare weapons when the blue rare weapons were more effective and way cheaper. I think Exoborne did a really good job with this balance. Higher tier weapons and armor grant you more perk and attachments slots but can still be outgunned and outplayed by a player with better mechanics with lower tier gear. THIS is the foundation of a good PVP extraction shooter experience. Skill will always outweigh gear, but gear should still give an advantage. Tarkov never catered to the casual player and has had many years of success. Catering to casual players brings in more money but dilutes the experience for good players.