Is this game censored?

[Vent]

Any DEI influuence?

[Number Eight]

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

Dude, you are wanting to go back to play the older games. Go play the older games. That’s not de-censoring a game that’s downgrading to a previous model. This game was rebuilt from the ground up and is a new entity remaking an older one. It doesn’t even use the same code since it’s made on Unreal. It’s not censoring.

You are getting to the point of being ridiculous.

Staying true to the design of original version of the game or it's earlier remakes is downgrade to previous model?

There is absolutely no point arguing with you because one key fact is completely eluding you.
Fact that remake of the game is meant to update the graphics and game-play mechanics to modern standards while staying as close to the original game as possible.
Otherwise there is no point of doing remake instead of brand new game in the series or complete overhaul reboot.

[Lucas the Thief]

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Originalmente postado por Durgha:

I'm not defending the change, but I think the idea was "dark skin = thief" got flagged as problematic because it could be read as "black person = criminal." None of the other classes had darker skin, so it was weird to begin with. SE could have sidestepped the entire issue by just expanding character creation to include skin color in addition to hair.

Except that female thief from DQ3 was never dark skinned as to resemble "black person" in any promotional art for the game. It always appeared as suntan.

Only valid reasoning might be that as thief she would have pale skin because she was most active, performing acquisitions during night time and always moving in shadows, thus didn't had much opportunity to get suntan.

From the character design with all that suntan and makeup, she appears to me as kind of woman who steal in order to afford living in tropical paradise resort, and once she run out of money, she offers her service as thief for hire to gain more riches again.

I always thought it was cuz it looked kind of like the Ganguro style that was popular in that time (dyed blonde hair, tanned skin, bright lipstick) that Japan was inspired by from baywatch.

[Durgha]

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Except that female thief from DQ3 was never dark skinned as to resemble "black person" in any promotional art for the game. It always appeared as suntan.

Only valid reasoning might be that as thief she would have pale skin because she was most active, performing acquisitions during night time and always moving in shadows, thus didn't had much opportunity to get suntan.

From the character design with all that suntan and makeup, she appears to me as kind of woman who steal in order to afford living in tropical paradise resort, and once she run out of money, she offers her service as thief for hire to gain more riches again.

I always thought it was cuz it looked kind of like the Ganguro style that was popular in that time (dyed blonde hair, tanned skin, bright lipstick) that Japan was inspired by from baywatch.

Ultimately we don't know the intent behind the sprite designer going with a darker skin tone. It could very well be Ganguro girls instead of a comment on race / class. I don't think Toriyama made that sprite even if he did the illustration, so it's a mystery who was even responsible for the design seen in-game.

But I think it's safe to say why it was changed: Square-Enix's QM department didn't like the idea of publishing a game where the thief could be read as a person of color when everyone else is white.

[Lucas the Thief]

Originalmente postado por Durgha:

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

I always thought it was cuz it looked kind of like the Ganguro style that was popular in that time (dyed blonde hair, tanned skin, bright lipstick) that Japan was inspired by from baywatch.

Ultimately we don't know the intent behind the sprite designer going with a darker skin tone. It could very well be Ganguro girls instead of a comment on race / class. I don't think Toriyama made that sprite even if he did the illustration, so it's a mystery who was even responsible for the design seen in-game.

But I think it's safe to say why it was changed: Square-Enix's QM department didn't like the idea of publishing a game where the thief could be read as a person of color when everyone else is white.

For what it’s worth the original sprites on the GBC her skin tone looks the exact same as every other party member so I don’t think that’s it.

https://www.realmofdarkness.net/dq/wp-content/img/snes/dq3/sprites/characters.png

[Number Eight]

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

For what it’s worth the original sprites on the GBC her skin tone looks the exact same as every other party member so I don’t think that’s it.

https://www.realmofdarkness.net/dq/wp-content/img/snes/dq3/sprites/characters.png

That's SNES remake not GBC. GBC had basically same graphics as original NES version.
Nonetheless, it appears that I was wrong about them changing the skin tone in comparison to the earlier versions of the game.
SNES games however used shared palettes, and sprites usually split into parts that use separate palette for each color of the sprite, then assembled together, due to hardware limitations.
Thus it was common to use one palette for skin tone of all characters, and it was not really that noticeable due to low resolution. Especially when played on CRT TV.

Thing with this remake is then, that they have decided to stay with the pale skin even though it's not matching the original character design art.

[Lucas the Thief]

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

For what it’s worth the original sprites on the GBC her skin tone looks the exact same as every other party member so I don’t think that’s it.

https://www.realmofdarkness.net/dq/wp-content/img/snes/dq3/sprites/characters.png

That's SNES remake not GBC. GBC had basically same graphics as original NES version.
Nonetheless, it appears that I was wrong about them changing the skin tone in comparison to the earlier versions of the game.
SNES games however used shared palettes, and sprites usually split into parts that use separate palette for each color of the sprite, then assembled together, due to hardware limitations.
Thus it was common to use one palette for skin tone of all characters, and it was not really that noticeable due to low resolution. Especially when played on CRT TV.

Thing with this remake is then, that they have decided to stay with the pale skin even though it's not matching the original character design art.

That isn’t unique to this franchise or any other though. Just look at most of the character art for FF drawn by Yoshitaka Amano.

[Number Eight]

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

That isn’t unique to this franchise or any other though. Just look at most of the character art for FF drawn by Yoshitaka Amano.

Not sure if that's good example.
Unlike DQ which retains Toriyama's art style for in-game enemies even in low resolution pixel graphics, FF in-game sprites for enemies greatly differs in comparison to unique art style of Yoshitaka Amano.

Player characters in earlier DQ games were also mostly visible only in overworld traveling, not in combat, and too tiny for recognizable details of specific art style.

[Lucas the Thief]

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

That isn’t unique to this franchise or any other though. Just look at most of the character art for FF drawn by Yoshitaka Amano.

Not sure if that's good example.
Unlike DQ which retains Toriyama's art style for in-game enemies even in low resolution pixel graphics, FF in-game sprites for enemies greatly differs in comparison to unique art style of Yoshitaka Amano.

Player characters in earlier DQ games were also mostly visible only in overworld traveling, not in combat, and too tiny for recognizable details of specific art style.

I meant it industry wide. From all my artbooks the end game doesn’t always end up matching what the sprites say

[Call Sign: Raven]

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

You don’t know what censored means do you?

Among other definitions, it's also removal of content that could be considered offensive or harmful.
Your attempts to convince me that this game is not censored are pointless.

If it weren't censored, this mod wouldn't exist.

They barely altered anything, and that mod addresses how few things were actually altered. Kinda shot yourself in the foot there, bud.

[Nightlife Neko]

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Originalmente postado por The Gambler:

SquareEnix decided they would sell more copies of this title at a lower 10+ rating, just like movies that aren't rated R sell more tickets because you're increasing the size of your available audience.

You're literally angry about capitalism.

I'm repeating myself, but there BIG difference between making "family friendly" movie or video game, and taking video game originally aimed at teens and young adults, and altering content during process of remastering the game in order to release the modernized version of the game to younger audience.

Also whether that really increase the sales is questionable.
Theoretically the wider the possible audience, the more copies should sell, practically however each game and it's genre have certain specific audience at which the game should be targeting at.

Upsetting core fanbase of the series in order to make the game available for those who might not be interested at all, is not exactly good marketing strategy in my opinion.

There is a difference, yes, but we are also talking about a game released in the West before a rating system for video games was implemented. I personally don't think a rating system is a bad thing in the US, it's never been religiously enforced since the onset. More info is better. Nowadays we do have ratings though, and those change over time and that's okay. At the time DQ3 released, nudity was also acceptable in PG movies. We don't allow that now however.

It is a gamble whenever you make a change in a source material, sure. Sometimes you end up with the Lord of the Rings films, other times you end up with The Hobbit or Rings of Power. In this instance, since part of the original team signed off on the changes and it's few and far between, in my opinion it's not that bad.

As far as whether or not it's a good marketing strat; I think it's likely more people were not upset by the changes considering it hit 45,357 concurrent users on Steam[steamdb.info] which is impressive to me since Dragon Quest/Warrior was never as popular as other JRPG series in the West. This remake hit #7 in the Top 10 sellers this week, and that's not accounting for other key seller sites or consoles where it likely sold more.

[Number Eight]

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

I meant it industry wide. From all my artbooks the end game doesn’t always end up matching what the sprites say

You can however still identify the Toriyama's art style as it's seen here:
https://x.com/ToriyamaArts/status/1245827934184759298
when looking at in-game sprites of those enemies:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/dw/sheet/10198/
Although it's more clearly visible in SNES remake here:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/dragonq/sheet/9996/

Compared to concept art by Yoshitaka Amano:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/playstation/finalfantasyoriginsfinalfantasy1/sheet/178088/
and actual in-game sprites:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/finalfantasy/sheet/10560/
Amano's artistic style is so complex, that only basic outline of the original art remained, and in PS one remake, many of those sprites were completely replaced, not just remastered.
https://www.spriters-resource.com/playstation/finalfantasyoriginsfinalfantasy1/sheet/22353/

When you say Yoshitaka Amano, most people recall this sort of artwork:
https://conceptartworld.com/books/the-sky-the-art-of-final-fantasy/
not actual in-game images from Final Fantasy.

Originalmente postado por Call Sign: Raven:

They barely altered anything, and that mod addresses how few things were actually altered.

It's in very early stage, bud. Author of that mod stated that there's more to be done.

[Durgha]

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

I meant it industry wide. From all my artbooks the end game doesn’t always end up matching what the sprites say

You can however still identify the Toriyama's art style as it's seen here:
https://x.com/ToriyamaArts/status/1245827934184759298
when looking at in-game sprites of those enemies:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/dw/sheet/10198/
Although it's more clearly visible in SNES remake here:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/dragonq/sheet/9996/

Compared to concept art by Yoshitaka Amano:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/playstation/finalfantasyoriginsfinalfantasy1/sheet/178088/
and actual in-game sprites:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/finalfantasy/sheet/10560/
Amano's artistic style is so complex, that only basic outline of the original art remained, and in PS one remake, many of those sprites were completely replaced, not just remastered.
https://www.spriters-resource.com/playstation/finalfantasyoriginsfinalfantasy1/sheet/22353/

When you say Yoshitaka Amano, most people recall this sort of artwork:
https://conceptartworld.com/books/the-sky-the-art-of-final-fantasy/
not actual in-game images from Final Fantasy.

Originalmente postado por Call Sign: Raven:

They barely altered anything, and that mod addresses how few things were actually altered.

It's in very early stage, bud. Author of that mod stated that there's more to be done.

This is a tangent, but concept artists, character designers, and the people doing the sprite work usually aren't the same person. For example, Amano did concept art for all the mainline Final Fantasy titles through at least FFXIII, but the character designs were mostly handled by Tetsuya Nomura starting in the mid-90s. This is why the official artbooks differ from in-game graphics. The books are mostly Amano's work, while the character designs are mostly Nomura.

On the other hand, artists like Akihiko Yoshida handled both the concept art and character designs for titles like Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics, and FFXII. For those games the concept art is strikingly similar to in-game graphics.

I've always heard Toriyama designed the concept art, the character designs, and the monster designs himself for nearly everything in the Dragon Quest series. No idea if he made the sprites personally. I'm assuming Chunsoft or Enix had technicians for that kind of thing.

There's been a long-standing but not great trend in Japanese games of leaving names out of the credits list so it's possible the name of the person who did the sprite work isn't out there anywhere.

[Call Sign: Raven]

Originalmente postado por Number Eight:

Originalmente postado por Lucas the Thief:

I meant it industry wide. From all my artbooks the end game doesn’t always end up matching what the sprites say

You can however still identify the Toriyama's art style as it's seen here:
https://x.com/ToriyamaArts/status/1245827934184759298
when looking at in-game sprites of those enemies:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/dw/sheet/10198/
Although it's more clearly visible in SNES remake here:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/dragonq/sheet/9996/

Compared to concept art by Yoshitaka Amano:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/playstation/finalfantasyoriginsfinalfantasy1/sheet/178088/
and actual in-game sprites:
https://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/finalfantasy/sheet/10560/
Amano's artistic style is so complex, that only basic outline of the original art remained, and in PS one remake, many of those sprites were completely replaced, not just remastered.
https://www.spriters-resource.com/playstation/finalfantasyoriginsfinalfantasy1/sheet/22353/

When you say Yoshitaka Amano, most people recall this sort of artwork:
https://conceptartworld.com/books/the-sky-the-art-of-final-fantasy/
not actual in-game images from Final Fantasy.

Originalmente postado por Call Sign: Raven:

They barely altered anything, and that mod addresses how few things were actually altered.

It's in very early stage, bud. Author of that mod stated that there's more to be done.

There's not much to be done, bud.

[theclaw135]

Originalmente postado por BornToLose1:

God, you people are the biggest babies on the planet. Just the most pathetic people online.

Being against the changes isn't enough.
No, it has to be an elaborate conspiracy! Where communists, cultists, marxists, and their other favorite -ists (except apparently atheists, for some reason, I haven't seen many instances of blaming atheism for altering the games) are plotting to destroy hobbies.

[Call Sign: Raven]

Originalmente postado por theclaw135:

Originalmente postado por BornToLose1:

God, you people are the biggest babies on the planet. Just the most pathetic people online.

Being against the changes isn't enough.
No, it has to be an elaborate conspiracy! Where communists, cultists, marxists, and their other favorite -ists (except apparently atheists, for some reason, I haven't seen many instances of blaming atheism for altering the games) are plotting to destroy hobbies.

That is funny that nobody brings up atheists. I don't think I've met a single atheist that has cared or posted about a game mentioning god, like Final Fantasy Tactics does from time to time. Food for thought.