This game turns into a real slog from Rubiss on

[Evilnapkin]

Just getting my two cents in. Enjoyed it until then. After that I just cheated to hit level 99 and steamroll the game. Didn't want to keep having my time wasted with 80s RPG baloney. I don't even remember the end of SMT Nocturne being this RNG reliant, and I got the True Demon ending (on PS2).

[Ederwolf]

Първоначално публикувано от Evilnapkin:

Just getting my two cents in. Enjoyed it until then. After that I just cheated to hit level 99 and steamroll the game. Didn't want to keep having my time wasted with 80s RPG baloney. I don't even remember the end of SMT Nocturne being this RNG reliant, and I got the True Demon ending (on PS2).

What was your team like?
Did you spam holy protection and/or pad foot to avoid most fights? You can easily go through the game if you don't run away from battles

[Call Sign: Raven]

Първоначално публикувано от hopefuldeath:

That's a pointless argument because they give you a weapon for free in the very first town that not only has higher attack power than the Chain Sickle, but hits an entire group of enemies and is basically guaranteed to kill just about all of them. Then 15 minutes later they give you a Boomerang that hits all enemies and is also one of the strongest weapons available. The question is, why would you bother buying a Chain Sickle in the first place when it's entirely unnecessary.

But that aside, between the items and gold you find in the first town, yes. You actually can buy a Chain Sickle before getting into a single battle. You just shouldn't because it's a waste

Ok, that’s one example. The game isn’t handing out gear the entire stretch and you know this but are being disingenuous to the conversation.

[Durgha]

A decent chunk of the strategy in older RPGs like this comes down to party planning and equipment choices made in town. Entering commands in combat is part of the gameplay, sure, but if the player isn't implementing the tools offered by the game then they're going to run into problems. This was true 30 years ago and it's true today. The heart of the gameplay loop is optimization. Spending time and resources effectively to streamline a system (your party) as it grows in complexity and power. It sounds like that's not fun or interesting to you. And that's fine.

The duplic hat + kaboom should clear out many monster groups, and you don't need to be late-game to take advantage of it. There's an early goddess ring that helps mitigate MP concerns if casters are struggling. A second one becomes immediately available once Tantagel is unlocked. I never used a single prayer ring the entire game, and the MP restore on level-up makes it really confusing that anyone would be running out. The meteor bracer is also very early and almost guarantees the wearer goes first except against metal slimes. Multi-target weapons are available to all classes afaik.

The goal should be to clear monster groups on the first turn, and if not then hopefully early in the second turn before they get to hit back. If a player builds a party that can't do that then it sounds like it's a competency issue with the game's systems rather than an objective balance problem. DQ3 absolutely allows the to player make an ineffective party with subpar personalities. I just don't know why someone would do that and then complain about it.

As an aside, SMT Nocturne was a gameover if the Demifiend died, so complaints about Thwack are really kind of silly here. A single Mudo in Nocturne could end hours of grinding. Nothing in DQ3 even comes to close to that level of unfairness. The hero's resurrect spells are cheap, reliable, and available at low level.

[hopefuldeath]

Първоначално публикувано от Call Sign: Raven:

Първоначално публикувано от hopefuldeath:

That's a pointless argument because they give you a weapon for free in the very first town that not only has higher attack power than the Chain Sickle, but hits an entire group of enemies and is basically guaranteed to kill just about all of them. Then 15 minutes later they give you a Boomerang that hits all enemies and is also one of the strongest weapons available. The question is, why would you bother buying a Chain Sickle in the first place when it's entirely unnecessary.

But that aside, between the items and gold you find in the first town, yes. You actually can buy a Chain Sickle before getting into a single battle. You just shouldn't because it's a waste

Ok, that’s one example. The game isn’t handing out gear the entire stretch and you know this but are being disingenuous to the conversation.

Bro, I addressed the example YOU brought up. Also the game kind of is handing out adequate gear the entire stretch. When I say I didn't have to buy a single piece of equipment all the way up to Baramos, I'm not exaggerating. That's not to say that I have bought equipment after that, that's just where I stopped playing recently and haven't got much of a chance to continue. I'll let you know if I can beat Zoma too without buying any equipment

[Ren O'the Blade]

I have left auto-battle on, for nearly the whole game, including the final dungeon, taking it off to fight bosses and metal slimes. I have 1 wipe and that was because I did the tower of transcendence too early and used the damned wind boomerangs and got unlucky in a single fight.

My Hero is level 47, every one else I changed their classes after maxing their spells/abilities. I did not grind.(2 maybe 3 times I spent some time finishing off a characters spells/abilities to re-class). I simply fled maybe 15 times total and did not use Padfoot or holy protection unless I was doing something, like monster/treasure hunting, or left a dungeon to replenish MP and was running back to where I left off.

The game literally lets you buy MP replenishing items in the end game and you can have hundreds of magic water, I also only took Draconian difficulty off to do ranks 8 and 9 of the monster arena, it has been on since the very beginning. Outside of 1 or 2 difficulty spikes, being Dying light and Boss troll, I steam rolled everything. I played the original games as a kid and the challenge here pales in comparison to DQ 2 on the NES.

You either rushed the game, did not keep up with gear or made poor choices on your party line up. All of which are fixable, with some extra time being spent FIXING them, takes maybe 2 hours at most to re-class a character and level them to up 30/35, and less than an hour to get to mid 20s.

[Evilnapkin]

I only ran maybe twice, hero was 40, rest were warrior/sage/sage around the same level (except for 2nd sage who was a 40 priest before I converted him, and was around 38 as sage when I started Citadel).

I don't know how you have hundreds of magic water without grinding, when I only had around 50 I bought after buying the best gear available.

Sure, I could've spent several hours grinding to get everyone higher, but grinding is so boring in this game. And I didn't have to do that at any other point in the game, so wasn't interested in doing it just to do 30 more minutes of content to finish the story.

I had initially set xp gains to 100x and it still took a few battles to go from 40 - 50. That means hundreds of battles at normal pace in final dungeon to hit 50, so that party had turns before enemy to make things manageable. Insane. Why I just cheated to 99@1000x xp and got this out of my playlist.

Also keep in mind this was my first time playing passed pyramid and I wasn't using a guide, so it isn't like I was using previous knowledge like some of you posting here probably had.

I also avoided monster arena, didn't find the concept of monster collecting in this game engaging in the least. And frankly after I got to Alefgard it mostly felt like padding, just started wanting it to be over. Still didn't run from battles or cease exploration, just saying, I really feel like this game falls apart at the end, almost like DQII except IIRC that only fell apart after the last town. This is an entire map that is kind of meh, and then gets worse.

[Ren O'the Blade]

The game throws idiotic amounts of gear at you, that you will never equip, I had so much money I stopped selling it. Plus ranks 8 and 9 of the moster arena give hundreds of ks worth of gold, 99 Magic water cost like 50k plus. After I fully equipped everyone, bought a couple of hundred magic waters I still had like 100k gold left. but I have bags upon bags of loot I can sell if needed.

Don't get me wrong. I understand not wanting to grind in a game, I just feel it was not really necessary at any point for me to grind. As we see, I did finish with my hero at 47 so clearly I was NOT under leveled. My FInal party was a MW turned Solider, Thief turned sage and Priest turned Martial artists. so I had 3 people who can heal, 2 who can buff and rez. I gave the sage stone to the MW so I could double use it, and every one could lay a serious beat down in all encounters, though most of my damage was my hero/MW on bosses for most of the game.

[Ren O'the Blade]

Първоначално публикувано от Evilnapkin:

I only ran maybe twice, hero was 40, rest were warrior/sage/sage around the same level (except for 2nd sage who was a 40 priest before I converted him, and was around 38 as sage when I started Citadel).

I don't know how you have hundreds of magic water without grinding, when I only had around 50 I bought after buying the best gear available.

Sure, I could've spent several hours grinding to get everyone higher, but grinding is so boring in this game. And I didn't have to do that at any other point in the game, so wasn't interested in doing it just to do 30 more minutes of content to finish the story.

I had initially set xp gains to 100x and it still took a few battles to go from 40 - 50. That means hundreds of battles at normal pace in final dungeon to hit 50, so that party had turns before enemy to make things manageable. Insane. Why I just cheated to 99@1000x xp and got this out of my playlist.

Also keep in mind this was my first time playing passed pyramid and I wasn't using a guide, so it isn't like I was using previous knowledge like some of you posting here probably had.

I also avoided monster arena, didn't find the concept of monster collecting in this game engaging in the least. And frankly after I got to Alefgard it mostly felt like padding, just started wanting it to be over. Still didn't run from battles or cease exploration, just saying, I really feel like this game falls apart at the end, almost like DQII except IIRC that only fell apart after the last town. This is an entire map that is kind of meh, and then gets worse.

I did the monster arena, hunted down all secret areas and grabbed most shiny spots, while this will not make me much higher level, it does account for why I had so much gold and you did not, my way of playing added hours to the run time, something others may not want to do. Plus I did use guides to find all the mini medals and secret areas. Something I understand and respect if others will not do.

[Evilnapkin]

I sold all gear I didn't use (except Golden Claws cuz it gave me a warning and I thought they might be used for something at some point). But like I said I didn't do monster arena. So that's why you had way more money than I did I guess.

[Ren O'the Blade]

The golden Claw was the best Martial artist weapon in the original game, which is why it got a special intro here. This time around it is not, so I guess it is kind of like an easter egg.

[Evilnapkin]

That was around where I quit the only other time I played DQIII, which was on Android. I got the golden claws, I may have gotten to Alltrades, but stopped playing after that.

[Ren O'the Blade]

I have and will always have a soft spot for Dragon Quest games, so rose tinted glasses and all. Dragon Warrior 1 on the NES was my very first RPG and created my love affair with the genre. So I have a high tolerance for grind MOST of the time. Dragon Warrior 1 was nothing BUT grind. Cross a bridge, fight to earn enough gold and EXP to move over another bridge, rinse and repeat till you get the best gear in the game, grind to at least level 20 and run for the final and only boss in the game, kill him and move on with your life.

[Lucas the Thief]

Първоначално публикувано от Evilnapkin:

I only ran maybe twice, hero was 40, rest were warrior/sage/sage around the same level (except for 2nd sage who was a 40 priest before I converted him, and was around 38 as sage when I started Citadel).

I don't know how you have hundreds of magic water without grinding, when I only had around 50 I bought after buying the best gear available.

Sure, I could've spent several hours grinding to get everyone higher, but grinding is so boring in this game. And I didn't have to do that at any other point in the game, so wasn't interested in doing it just to do 30 more minutes of content to finish the story.

I had initially set xp gains to 100x and it still took a few battles to go from 40 - 50. That means hundreds of battles at normal pace in final dungeon to hit 50, so that party had turns before enemy to make things manageable. Insane. Why I just cheated to 99@1000x xp and got this out of my playlist.

Ngl nothing that you say adds up. You admitted you cheated first of all so already who knows what else you might have done to your game. The best thing I can guess is that you equipped some bad accessories that changed the characters to a personality that is awful for them or you have personalities contrary to the character (like genius/wit on a warrior)

[Evilnapkin]

The first can at least be pardoned for being the first console RPG, at least they made it less painful on the Android version. I was hoping they'd modernize this version more as well, but aside from drowning you in mostly useless gear for the first half, I didn't find it all that different from what I understood the tone to be from what I played of it on Android. The end was just RNG craziness to me, with all the status effects going out (and no 100% prevention items just chance reduction) and thwack being spammed in some enemy setups. Or even in the Citadel, there was a group of mages I could encounter where I think it would be 5 of them, they would all cast Kaboom. That NES era stuff I was hoping would be eradicated.

So I am not sure if I will buy the DQI+II HD remake, since the very end of II was miserable on Android and probably also going to be untouched in this upcoming rerelease based on what they did with III, the first I want to replay but not if it's NES style grinding instead of Android version tables.

[Evilnapkin]

Първоначално публикувано от Lucas the Thief:

Първоначално публикувано от Evilnapkin:

I only ran maybe twice, hero was 40, rest were warrior/sage/sage around the same level (except for 2nd sage who was a 40 priest before I converted him, and was around 38 as sage when I started Citadel).

I don't know how you have hundreds of magic water without grinding, when I only had around 50 I bought after buying the best gear available.

Sure, I could've spent several hours grinding to get everyone higher, but grinding is so boring in this game. And I didn't have to do that at any other point in the game, so wasn't interested in doing it just to do 30 more minutes of content to finish the story.

I had initially set xp gains to 100x and it still took a few battles to go from 40 - 50. That means hundreds of battles at normal pace in final dungeon to hit 50, so that party had turns before enemy to make things manageable. Insane. Why I just cheated to 99@1000x xp and got this out of my playlist.

Ngl nothing that you say adds up. You admitted you cheated first of all so already who knows what else you might have done to your game. The best thing I can guess is that you equipped some bad accessories that changed the characters to a personality that is awful for them or you have personalities contrary to the character (like genius/wit on a warrior)

I cheated at the end after getting to the first boss of the gauntlet in Citadel and wiping, and nothing broke. That's about half an hour with cheating. Everything leading up to that was legit. I equipped a cursed item once, but immediately zoomed back and got it taken off then sold it so it wouldn't happen again. Like I said I didn't use a guide, so wouldn't have optimized personalities.