Diablo 4 Needs to Learn From PoE 2 on Bosses and Items

[Crim]

I’ve put about 40 hours into Path of Exile 2 now, and there are two things it does way better than Diablo 4: boss fights and itemization. Honestly, after playing PoE 2, it’s tough to go back to D4’s bosses they feel so shallow by comparison. Like, it’s not even close.

Don’t get me wrong, both games have their issues, and PoE 2 isn’t perfect. But when it comes to boss design and loot, it’s just on another level. Meanwhile, D4’s bosses feel like they’re just there to fill time, and the item system... well, let’s just say it left a lot to be desired at launch.

That said, I’m not here to trash Diablo 4 completely. In fact, I think D4 does a lot of things better its story is way more engaging, the world events are fun, dungeons feel great to explore, and the classes are more polished overall. But here’s the problem: boss fights and loot are the backbone of any ARPG, and if those aren’t fun, it’s hard to stay hooked long-term.

I really hope Blizzard takes a few cues from PoE 2 in this area. If they can improve those two aspects, Diablo 4 could honestly be so much better. But for now? Going back to D4 after PoE 2 just makes the flaws in its boss design stick out even more. :(

[Spirit]

you mean blizz should add one-shot moves to D4 ?
the community will rip them to shreds in the forums over this if they ever make that move

[Beef0x]

They are just different games, and thats fine.

[Crim]

Originally posted by Spirit:

you mean blizz should add one-shot moves to D4 ?
the community will rip them to shreds in the forums over this if they ever make that move

Yeah, that definitely falls under the 'not perfect' side of things, lol. I agree that the damage output on some bosses in PoE 2 feels pretty overtuned at times. But even with that, the overall design and mechanics of the boss fights are just so much more engaging and well-thought-out compared to anything Diablo 4 offers right now. It’s not about making D4 bosses one-shot you it’s about gving them interesting mechanics that make the fights feel more dynamic and rewarding

[Crim]

Originally posted by Beef0x:

They are just different games, and thats fine.

Just because they are different games doesn't mean you can't compare certain aspects of them >.> Diablo 4 itemization has been awful from the start and the boss fights are way too simplistic.

[Beef0x]

Originally posted by Crim:

Originally posted by Beef0x:

They are just different games, and thats fine.

Just because they are different games doesn't mean you can't compare certain aspects of them >.> Diablo 4 itemization has been awful from the start and the boss fights are way too simplistic.

So play PoE 2 and leave D4 alone ?

[Loden | Heathen]

D4 is slay troves of monsters with little to no effort game where running at speed is 99% of the point. That is fairly true of Blizzard games in general for the past 20 or so years so they aren't the same at all in terms of what would make a good boss.

I agree D4 is lacking in the boss fight department not much it can learn from PoE2 in that respect though they are hugely different approaches to the genre

Now I do think PoE2 could learn something from D4 in terms of loot tables, I am not saying I want the loot pinata that is D4 in PoE but PoE doesn't seem to apply much if any intelligence at all to the drops ... feels 100% basic ♥♥♥♥♥ RNG and that honestly sucks, I mean its fine over prolonged play times as it does average out eventually ... but it really sucks on your first play through or if you dont have 111111111hrs to grind out for something that isn't ♥♥♥♥ or more likely enough junk to disenchant that you might roll something worth a damn.

This is a forever problem with loot treadmill games no matter which one your playing but I will say D4 does loot better in terms of the things that drop are of more use for your character. PoE on the other hand drops a BUNCH of trash and with the smaller inventory space I spend a large amount of my time just shuttling trash to the wood chipper to build up the gold and upgrade components that I can make something useful and that is not fun at least to me.

I would rather have fewer more useful drops than 99% wood chipper food with the occasional not trash drop. In the same respect D4 does a lot wrong with its loot ... everything that drops is a "Legendary" which just erodes any meaning that might have once had. EVERYTHING drops like 500 OJ items every time you breath on them hard... so that sucks as well.

But ... at least what is dropped is relevant for your character. POE has a much more sane drop rate, and I much prefer its approach to item rarity ... however, nailing those factors and just phoning in the loot tables isn't "better" I would argue its worse.

I would be completely happy if PoE either only dropped money and crafting resources and we just resolve to buying/crafting what we need

Or

nothing usually drops but when something does drop its of actual f-ing use.

this constant shuttle run to the camp to ID and dis/sale my garbage is not fun but I have to do that to get the gold I need to by the base item that I then spend those upgrade components on its a unplesent flow to me and feels much worse compared to PoE1

[Crim]

I get what you’re saying, and you make some good points about how different D4 and PoE2 are in their approaches. That said, I do think D4 could learn a thing or two from PoE2 when it comes to boss design. I’m not asking for crazy, punishing mechanics, but PoE2 shows how to make fights more engaging. For example, Kala, The First Light, is a fun early boss that introduces mechanics like AoEs and timing without being frustrating. In D4, the bosses often feel repetitive and rely too much on raw damage instead of creative mechanics.

As for loot, I agree PoE’s drop system can feel rough, especially early on when you’re not familiar with crafting. But I love how impactful the affixes are when you get a good item—it’s so much more satisfying than D4’s ‘everything is a Legendary’ approach. D4’s loot is more useful in the short term, but it lacks that excitement of finding something truly game-changing. Honestly, I think both games could meet in the middle: fewer, more relevant drops like D4, but with the depth and customization PoE is known for.

[Ciyto]

Bosses sure but I have no idea why people slander diablo 4 for its loot when in POE 2 it is no better you have to find currency items (orbs, modifiers, ect) just to apply random modifiers and suffixes to a piece of equipment. This is literally RNG, and the same principle is in Diablo 4, except with affixes you can directly control what affixes you want and have the ability to dictate your RNG not to mention you even can completely control your aspects to any equipment that way you get something out of your loot. You then can salvage it to upgrade your aspects, so no loot is completely useless. This is NOT the same for POE 2. You have no control true control over what is good or should I say providing value to anything other than RNG, not to mention loot in POE 2 is useless relative to the passive skill tree. You would honestly just focus on survivability modifiers first (as in any ARPG) until you feel less squishy end game. POE 2 is being praised for build diversity yet that is NOT even true because you have meta builds people run because the bosses and game is more difficult, more so than diablo. The build meta is more flexible in Diablo because it is easier rather than POE 2 for most casuals it feels like a need. How can anyone say Diablo is trash and critique in relation to POE 2 yet the same aspects you guys cry about in Diablo 4 plague the POE 2? You people have no idea what you want in the game. I assume you all want something different/refreshing and that is fine just play both games to get different experiences but both games are fine you guys just cry so much about stuff and have a halfa** comparison

[☣ RotPest ☣]

Originally posted by Crim:

I’ve put about 40 hours into Path of Exile 2 now, and there are two things it does way better than Diablo 4: boss fights and itemization. Honestly, after playing PoE 2, it’s tough to go back to D4’s bosses they feel so shallow by comparison. Like, it’s not even close.

Don’t get me wrong, both games have their issues, and PoE 2 isn’t perfect. But when it comes to boss design and loot, it’s just on another level. Meanwhile, D4’s bosses feel like they’re just there to fill time, and the item system... well, let’s just say it left a lot to be desired at launch.

That said, I’m not here to trash Diablo 4 completely. In fact, I think D4 does a lot of things better its story is way more engaging, the world events are fun, dungeons feel great to explore, and the classes are more polished overall. But here’s the problem: boss fights and loot are the backbone of any ARPG, and if those aren’t fun, it’s hard to stay hooked long-term.

I really hope Blizzard takes a few cues from PoE 2 in this area. If they can improve those two aspects, Diablo 4 could honestly be so much better. But for now? Going back to D4 after PoE 2 just makes the flaws in its boss design stick out even more. :(

what do you mean poe2 is diablo - it just look good.
all bosses are the same : super fast , teleporting/jumping , spawning mobs in way to smal areas and aoe spam the whole time

and thats for every boss , if you think thats a good system than you never fought a realy challenging boss
and recently i found my first orange item thats way worse as the yellow item i have - great.

but wait there is more , let me guess ? i should wait, because its a indie dev and they need time to fix stuff ? yeah .... no. they took 30 € from me and gave me a boring game with stupidly slow and boring combat and im just level 20 and dont see me reach the endgame because i will fall asleep while slow walking through the maps and slow hitting mobs.

yeah blizzard isnt great and last epoch has their own problems but at least they know that combat is important and HAVE to feel good and not boring and slow and ... did i mentioned slow already ? but i guess when you make a game thats should also be useable on gamepads , it have to be slow. sad but yeah it is what it is. i learned my leasson.

[RIG-801]

No, it shouldn't, they should make their own thing.