[Lite Rant] Respec should be free or the cost significantly reduced

[Traveler]

Completely disregarding nerfs and changes that could intentionally or otherwise break builds, players that aren't using optimized guides for builds and are attempting to experiment on their own are left with the options of rolling a new character or trying to grind for gold on a build that isn't fun to play when they realize fairly late into the game that their build isn't good for more challenging content. Is this the intended outcome? Is this really the plan to keep people engaged? Before the EA launched, the massive skill tree and other various skill trees were presented as there being so much build diversity, yet you're punished for potentially screwing something up when trying to experiment.

At level 50s~ it's 1.7k gold to respec a single node, and the price continues to scale up as you level. If you needed a clean-slate you'd need around 80k gold. That's alot of tedious grinding on a bad build, especially when gold drops and item selling points are measly.

I think overall POE2 is a great game, but for new players or people that are still learning how to make decent builds, having respec be so expensive, or cost at all, is a huge negative, at least in my opinion.

[Captain Explodo]

to be clear , i disagree with you . HOWEVER , I do think they should issue 1 free respec after each balance patch in EA , so if they bork someone's broken build they don't have to spend 10's of thousands of gold to fix their character after a patch , which was no fault of their own.

[ssj grumpig]

Originally posted by Captain Explodo:

to be clear , i disagree with you . HOWEVER , I do think they should issue 1 free respec after each balance patch in EA , so if they bork someone's broken build they don't have to spend 10's of thousands of gold to fix their character after a patch , which was no fault of their own.

This is a solid compromise, I'd be all for it

[[TFK] Blaze]

Precedent exists. There have been at least one that I remember in POE1, skill tree reset after a massive patch/league. I forget which one it was though. But a couple of my perma characters in POE1 still have not respent their points.

[Nani]

Originally posted by TFK Blaze:

Precedent exists. There have been at least one that I remember in POE1, skill tree reset after a massive patch/league. I forget which one it was though. But a couple of my perma characters in POE1 still have not respent their points.

It feels to me as if that free respec happens every league. Almost always when I go back to standard during a new league to clean something up in my stash, I get the popup for full passive tree respec.

I would not be surprised if GGG patches in the same, after they realise the quantity of feedback surrounding the ailment changes they made.

-----

As a question to everybody here who has been playing that freeze autocast setup, is it not a possibility to make that work in some way with shatter to use up freeze, so you are able to freeze enemies again faster and get the freeze trigger going?

I keep reading feedback of people mentioning needing 10 seconds of waiting time with a pack of white mobs to get enough energy build up from freezes, but none of the complaints mentioned in any way I could see that they were aware of a way to utilize freeze for extra damage. Is that not a viable option to use?

[Subsonic]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Maybe because they want to be entertained and having a character you worked on nerfed into the ground and when your options are start over or grind for hours to get the gold to respec, you'll feel a little salty (unless your a mindless toxic fanboy)

Funnily enough, people play computer games to be entertained, I get changes ar important in beta, but then they need to give players the ability to be able to deal w8th such constant major changes. Otherwise don't be surprised is a lot of people turn off the game and actively put other off.

No one likes having their time wasted.

Well here we are again, what is time wasted ? What is entertaining ?

That's correct, its different things to different people, imagine a change happens that you love, I can tell you now, someone else will hate it. But that right its all about YOU right, the ME ME ME entitled generation, WAAAAA WAAAA my time is being wasted, I WANT I WANT.

People need to start learning how to address a problem they have with something and look for solutions that don't destroy things for other people.

[WereChicken]

Originally posted by Evol:

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Maybe because they want to be entertained and having a character you worked on nerfed into the ground and when your options are start over or grind for hours to get the gold to respec, you'll feel a little salty (unless your a mindless toxic fanboy)

Funnily enough, people play computer games to be entertained, I get changes ar important in beta, but then they need to give players the ability to be able to deal w8th such constant major changes. Otherwise don't be surprised is a lot of people turn off the game and actively put other off.

No one likes having their time wasted.

Well here we are again, what is time wasted ? What is entertaining ?

That's correct, its different things to different people, imagine a change happens that you love, I can tell you now, someone else will hate it. But that right its all about YOU right, the ME ME ME entitled generation, WAAAAA WAAAA my time is being wasted, I WANT I WANT.

People need to start learning how to address a problem they have with something and look for solutions that don't destroy things for other people.

No, people need to learn to start READING what other people say.

I was saying if you feel like you time is wasted, say you made a character, took the time to level them up and then said character is nerfed into the ground, THEN you will feel annoyed.

As I said, if there are going to be a lot of balance changes then respec's should either be severely discounted or the cost removed until the game is in a more stable state. Otherwise the devs are just messing people around

[Captain Rhodes]

Originally posted by InevitableCheese:

NO I absolutely WANT to make an entirely new character every time I want something slightly different in my build. If I don't have to grind endlessly in this game then what is the point of even being alive

you people are casuals, quit your job, sell your house, and commit to the game

Glad someone sees reason. Im leaving my girlfriend so i can grind my witch instead.

[Subsonic]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

No, people need to learn to start READING what other people say.

I was saying if you feel like you time is wasted, say you made a character, took the time to level them up and then said character is nerfed into the ground, THEN you will feel annoyed.

As I said, if there are going to be a lot of balance changes then respec's should either be severely discounted or the cost removed until the game is in a more stable state. Otherwise the devs are just messing people around

NO totally disagree with you, Just because YOU think your TIME WAS WASTED and YOU are annoyed, doesn't mean YOU get to suggest that its THE SAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE and then claim the change YOU want is good for everyone, when its clearly not.

Stop your whine, go and grind what you need, or if you are frustrated/annoyed with the game, maybe its not for you.

I have no problem with people coming up with solutions that would be fun for them to get what they want, but not at the expense of others.

Entitled Generation...

[Nani]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

No, people need to learn to start READING what other people say.

I was saying if you feel like you time is wasted, say you made a character, took the time to level them up and then said character is nerfed into the ground, THEN you will feel annoyed.

As I said, if there are going to be a lot of balance changes then respec's should either be severely discounted or the cost removed until the game is in a more stable state. Otherwise the devs are just messing people around

You know what? I'll bite, am in the mood for some hair splitting, my apologies if the following dissection might annoy you.

Here's what you first posted in full

Originally posted by WereChicken:
Maybe because they want to be entertained and having a character you worked on nerfed into the ground and when your options are start over or grind for hours to get the gold to respec, you'll feel a little salty (unless your a mindless toxic fanboy)

Funnily enough, people play computer games to be entertained, I get changes ar important in beta, but then they need to give players the ability to be able to deal w8th such constant major changes. Otherwise don't be surprised is a lot of people turn off the game and actively put other off.

No one likes having their time wasted.

"No one likes having their time wasted." - This to me reads about in the same was as I assume the other user reacted to with a question for what it means to have your time wasted.

"I was saying if you feel like you time is wasted, say you made a character, took the time to level them up and then said character is nerfed into the ground, THEN you will feel annoyed."

This is not quite the same statement. Here you added more context to explain what it means to you when time is wasted.

It would've likely helped if you had been as clear from the start, instead of insulting opposing opinions as illiterate or mindless and toxic, when you wrote something that made sense in your head, but forgot to add the context that you connected to it - in your head.

Honestly, I personally have a hard time understanding all the anger and especially the confusing need to sling around insults I see all over on various forums.

Instead of insulting somebody about how they misunderstood you, would it not be healthier to take a brief step back, read over your initial post and consider: Have I written clearly enough to make myself understood? They asked follow up questions, so apparently something could've been made clearer?"

[WeaverDuck]

Yeah, i think it should be free for now (while balancing happens frequently) and they should allow ascendancy change too, so you dont have wait for fixes in case its broken.

Just a little QoL for an EA launch

[WereChicken]

Originally posted by Nani:

Originally posted by WereChicken:

No, people need to learn to start READING what other people say.

I was saying if you feel like you time is wasted, say you made a character, took the time to level them up and then said character is nerfed into the ground, THEN you will feel annoyed.

As I said, if there are going to be a lot of balance changes then respec's should either be severely discounted or the cost removed until the game is in a more stable state. Otherwise the devs are just messing people around

You know what? I'll bite, am in the mood for some hair splitting, my apologies if the following dissection might annoy you.

Here's what you first posted in full

Originally posted by WereChicken:
Maybe because they want to be entertained and having a character you worked on nerfed into the ground and when your options are start over or grind for hours to get the gold to respec, you'll feel a little salty (unless your a mindless toxic fanboy)

Funnily enough, people play computer games to be entertained, I get changes ar important in beta, but then they need to give players the ability to be able to deal w8th such constant major changes. Otherwise don't be surprised is a lot of people turn off the game and actively put other off.

No one likes having their time wasted.

"No one likes having their time wasted." - This to me reads about in the same was as I assume the other user reacted to with a question for what it means to have your time wasted.

"I was saying if you feel like you time is wasted, say you made a character, took the time to level them up and then said character is nerfed into the ground, THEN you will feel annoyed."

This is not quite the same statement. Here you added more context to explain what it means to you when time is wasted.

It would've likely helped if you had been as clear from the start, instead of insulting opposing opinions as illiterate or mindless and toxic, when you wrote something that made sense in your head, but forgot to add the context that you connected to it - in your head.

Honestly, I personally have a hard time understanding all the anger and especially the confusing need to sling around insults I see all over on various forums.

Instead of insulting somebody about how they misunderstood you, would it not be healthier to take a brief step back, read over your initial post and consider: Have I written clearly enough to make myself understood? They asked follow up questions, so apparently something could've been made clearer?"

Lol,

yeah buddy you are really splitting hairs to try and make it look like they didn't just skip over what I was saying.

I can try repeating it again and making it simpler for you lot so you might understand, but it's such a simple message that you lot keep ignoring that it's either deliberate or I'm going to have to resort to using sock puppets.

So if you're just trying to argue because you're butthurt I don't really care.

Also you lot getting your knickers in a twist over perceived insults given your replies to OP is hilariously hypocritical.

[Saint]

I hate using guides and I don't really want to sit around with a calculator either doing the min max game. I like playing the game and would prefer experimenting with different builds to be a fun time not a grind. Re-specs should be cheaper, you only need gold sinks in a game if having to much gold is an issue.

[Nani]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Lol,

yeah buddy you are really splitting hairs to try and make it look like they didn't just skip over what I was saying.

I can try repeating it again and making it simpler for you lot so you might understand, but it's such a simple message that you lot keep ignoring that it's either deliberate or I'm going to have to resort to using sock puppets.

So if you're just trying to argue because you're butthurt I don't really care.

Also you lot getting your knickers in a twist over perceived insults given your replies to OP is hilariously hypocritical.

After rereading your initial post I realize my mistake, looks like I got a bit too fixated on the singular sentence, my apologies for that.

Lets pivot to something that's going to be a bit more productive:

About your statement of making respecs completely free or discounted.

Would that not hinder any data collection from the devs to finetune the respec costs in the future?
Why should they offload that work into the future, when an early access period would be the best time to regularily change things?

I would not be surprised of one of the future updates will come with such a free respec, once they went through skills and -interactions a bit more thanks to all the player data.

Finally, I am unaware of having personally insulted anybody, especially not the OP, as this was my first post in here. I was trying to discuss something and fumbled it on my first attempt, again - my apologies for that.

[WereChicken]

Originally posted by Nani:

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Lol,

yeah buddy you are really splitting hairs to try and make it look like they didn't just skip over what I was saying.

I can try repeating it again and making it simpler for you lot so you might understand, but it's such a simple message that you lot keep ignoring that it's either deliberate or I'm going to have to resort to using sock puppets.

So if you're just trying to argue because you're butthurt I don't really care.

Also you lot getting your knickers in a twist over perceived insults given your replies to OP is hilariously hypocritical.

After rereading your initial post I realize my mistake, looks like I got a bit too fixated on the singular sentence, my apologies for that.

Lets pivot to something that's going to be a bit more productive:

About your statement of making respecs completely free or discounted.

Would that not hinder any data collection from the devs to finetune the respec costs in the future?
Why should they offload that work into the future, when an early access period would be the best time to regularily change things?

I would not be surprised of one of the future updates will come with such a free respec, once they went through skills and -interactions a bit more thanks to all the player data.

Finally, I am unaware of having personally insulted anybody, especially not the OP, as this was my first post in here. I was trying to discuss something and fumbled it on my first attempt, again - my apologies for that.

That would only hinder data on the appropriate costs of respec, which is already completely out of kilter as the balance changes are massively forcing people to respec, so you wouldn't be getting anything close to usable data on that anyways. (by usable data I mean a good idea of how often people will respec normally)Also as that's literally just changing the value it can be left until nearer the release time as otherwise every balance pass is going to spike the number of people wanting to respec.

Another solution would be offering free respecs for a week after each beta balance pass.

Also no need to apologise, I'm some random guy on the internet, although I do appreciate your politeness

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Evol:

NO its fine as it is, and they recently increased loot.

Originally posted by Traveler:

At level 50s~ it's 1.7k gold to respec a single node, and the price continues to scale up as you level. If you needed a clean-slate you'd need around 80k gold. That's alot of tedious grinding on a bad build, especially when gold drops and item selling points are measly.

This is your problem, "Tedious Grinding", if you want to attack this situation you need to get the "tedious grinding" to change so that its "fun grinding", which is a different thing to different people, what would be fun grinding to you ?

Grinding itself isn't what's tedious, for reference I play games like Warframe, Darktide, Destiny, etc, I don't have an issue with grinding. The problem with poe2 is that if you have a bad build, it's much harder and slower to progress through content, and when you take into consideration how large maps are, how slow players are, and how maps reset on death, things stop being fun and becomes tedious very quickly when the steps you need to take to fix your build means playing on that broken build for hours or starting a new character. The goal with games is to have fun. There is nothing fun about being stuck playing an inefficient build where it takes time to even kill normal mobs in a game that's intentionally designed to have the player swarmed by normal creatures alongside stronger elite ones. In the other games I mentioned you can swap your builds and experiment without feeling punished, and for that reason grinding is much more fun/palatable.