What's your take on the David Brevik (D2 creator) comment?

[Harime Nui]

Originally posted by PCGamesN:

He doesn’t see the attraction in “killing screen-fulls of things instantly and mowing stuff down” – in fact, he finds it “kind of silly”.

in fact POE 2 end game is exactly this. some say (I didn't verify) that it was due to POE veterans complaining that the deliberate, methodical gameplay was "too slow" so GGG went and made the end game this way

what do you think? apparently devs need to cater to their audience. if the majority of your players get their dopamine high from deleting screen after screen of things, this is what you gotta give 'em or they gonna get it elsewhere

[Ball-e]

Cow level

[KillJoy]

In the end it boils down to reward versus time investment. While I had no specific issues with that balance, I do find the endgame overall boring as it consists of clearing map after map after map, which eventually leads to boredom even if there's a balance in reward versus time.

It's almost like "why bother", as you will continue to clear maps anyways.

I think there needs to be more variety, some different endgame options, and above all there needs to be a viable path to level 100 that does not require a ton of time.

[EvilHare]

I find the developer's opinion just that. Their own opinion about a game where you level to get more powerful. In all honesty, if the developer did not expect this, they should never had levels or stats.

In the end Brevik is trying to make their game look good only by being a hypocrite.

[Harime Nui]

Originally posted by EvilHare:

I find the developer's opinion just that. Their own opinion about a game where you level to get more powerful. In all honesty, if the developer did not expect this, they should never had levels or stats.

In the end Brevik is trying to make their game look good only by being a hypocrite.

he sounds kinda jealous right?

[Harime Nui]

Originally posted by KillJoy:

In the end it boils down to reward versus time investment. While I had no specific issues with that balance, I do find the endgame overall boring as it consists of clearing map after map after map, which eventually leads to boredom even if there's a balance in reward versus time.

It's almost like "why bother", as you will continue to clear maps anyways.

I think there needs to be more variety, some different endgame options, and above all there needs to be a viable path to level 100 that does not require a ton of time.

I'm not far enough in the game yet but completely agree

however, we've had our D2s so let Zoomers have their Vampire Survivors...

[EvilHare]

Originally posted by Harime Nui:

Originally posted by EvilHare:

I find the developer's opinion just that. Their own opinion about a game where you level to get more powerful. In all honesty, if the developer did not expect this, they should never had levels or stats.

In the end Brevik is trying to make their game look good only by being a hypocrite.

he sounds kinda jealous right?

Yup, trying to create a scenario in his baby's favor.

Sorry, but the evolution of gaming is here. Gamer's do enjoy one shotting or shooter games would not be as they are now and as popular as they are.

Brevik just can't handle that his game is no longer the standard.

[RawMeatDiet]

I like playing glass cannon builds and like games that support that type of playstyle by giving me opportunities to be skilled enough to avoid death consistently.

It doesn't matter to me if I delete screens or 1-2 enemies at a time, but what matters is big dam and glass cannon playstyle that is rewarded with good mechanical skill, dodging, good positioning, kiting etc.

So I don't mind if they remove AOE from the game completely, as long as the game still supports glass cannon playstyle.

I would like if instead of killing trash in maps, I could choose to fight only elite mobs, very strong, very dangerous, that not many builds can do, especially enemies that AOE builds in maps can't kill at all.

Most ARPGS really miss out on this opportunity and instead make the game about clearing trash mobs with one click, rather than give alternative for tanky melee characters to fight a small group of enemies which would destroy all these meta casters that spam AOEs in maps.

That would make melee viable as AOE spammers would not even be able to kill these elite mobs that only melee can kill.

In D2 not every build could do bossing well, there were boss killers specially crafted for that, especially in modded private servers.

[Ghost | Severage]

Wait... so he developed D2 where you kill screens full of enemies on higher difficulties but finds it silly ?
Kinda stupid take if you ask me.

[Dr. Rockso]

My take

[Harime Nui]

Originally posted by RawMeatDiet:

I like playing glass cannon builds and like games that support that type of playstyle by giving me opportunities to be skilled enough to avoid death consistently.

It doesn't matter to me if I delete screens or 1-2 enemies at a time, but what matters is big dam and glass cannon playstyle that is rewarded with good mechanical skill, dodging, good positioning, kiting etc.

So I don't mind if they remove AOE from the game completely, as long as the game still supports glass cannon playstyle.

I would like if instead of killing trash in maps, I could choose to fight only elite mobs, very strong, very dangerous, that not many builds can do, especially enemies that AOE builds in maps can't kill at all.

Most ARPGS really miss out on this opportunity and instead make the game about clearing trash mobs with one click, rather than give alternative for tanky melee characters to fight a small group of enemies which would destroy all these meta casters that spam AOEs in maps.

That would make melee viable as AOE spammers would not even be able to kill these elite mobs that only melee can kill.

In D2 not every build could do bossing well, there were boss killers specially crafted for that, especially in modded private servers.

I enjoy glass canon builds too! but I've skill issue...

[RawMeatDiet]

Originally posted by Harime Nui:

Originally posted by RawMeatDiet:

I like playing glass cannon builds and like games that support that type of playstyle by giving me opportunities to be skilled enough to avoid death consistently.

It doesn't matter to me if I delete screens or 1-2 enemies at a time, but what matters is big dam and glass cannon playstyle that is rewarded with good mechanical skill, dodging, good positioning, kiting etc.

So I don't mind if they remove AOE from the game completely, as long as the game still supports glass cannon playstyle.

I would like if instead of killing trash in maps, I could choose to fight only elite mobs, very strong, very dangerous, that not many builds can do, especially enemies that AOE builds in maps can't kill at all.

Most ARPGS really miss out on this opportunity and instead make the game about clearing trash mobs with one click, rather than give alternative for tanky melee characters to fight a small group of enemies which would destroy all these meta casters that spam AOEs in maps.

That would make melee viable as AOE spammers would not even be able to kill these elite mobs that only melee can kill.

In D2 not every build could do bossing well, there were boss killers specially crafted for that, especially in modded private servers.

I enjoy glass canon builds too! but I've skill issue...

Same. It's why I started POE2 by only playing hardcore, had to get good enough very quick. If you play in a certain way you can play glass cannon even if you are bad mechanically and have bad reaction time. Can learn to be good at tactics.

[serotoninpack]

Power tripping (and that includes loot finding) is all that makes these action rpgs appealing That's why people play them. I find it kind of silly a D2 creator fails to acknowledge that.

Curious what was he trying to achieve with Diablo 2 design then.... Maybe its success was just a lucky succession of events.

[Bobloblaw]

d4 endgame is way more of an amusement park than POE2 is.

You pay your tickets to enter the rides, the rides spawn screens and screens of monsters that even at the highest difficulty still get absolutely demomlished in an instant. The horde mode literally spawns like 10k monsters in a single room for you to fight lol.

Everything he said he doesn't like? He was talking about D4

[Psycha]

Originally posted by EvilHare:

Originally posted by Harime Nui:

he sounds kinda jealous right?

Yup, trying to create a scenario in his baby's favor.

Sorry, but the evolution of gaming is here. Gamer's do enjoy one shotting or shooter games would not be as they are now and as popular as they are.

Brevik just can't handle that his game is no longer the standard.

Only reason games are like that these days is because of the science behind it. They hold game dev meetings from different studios and talk about how to market their games and develop them to abuse addiction and dopamine mechanics.

Fast flashy gameplay and every now and then a spark of RNG that keeps re igniting your flame to keep playing and abuse your own self control with cash shops or addictive grinds is how we advance gaming? No.

It may be my own opinion in the end but game's like D2 and Classic WoW are still relevant today and played by younger people because they are actually rewarding and fun. They are worth the time sinks and efforts.

PoE 1 and 2 both just offer dopamine hits every few hours or in worse cases every few days with drops or lucky "crafts". GGG doesn't bank on actual efforts of enjoyment because players efforts are deleted every 3-4 months per leagues(seasons).

WoW tried this seasonal method with 2 iterations of Classic being "Season of Mastery" and "Season of Discovery" SoM didn't hit any sparks with the community because they made it extremely sweaty and streamer controlled.

Season of Discovery is in the same boat with streamer control and dopamine hit viability with new raid difficulty tiers, boosted XP gains in what was supposed to be a Classic Vanilla mindset of the journey. Creating a retail-lite experience in that regard.



Diablo 3 and 4 were created around and with the mindset of seasons only rewarding players after a short time and then it flatlines after that unless you try a new character. But once you have all the characters with a endgame build within the first 2 weeks of a season there is nothing else to do but try to beat the people on pit ladders.

David's comments on PoE 2 are his own opinion but an opinion can be approved and held the same by others. If enough people push back on this fast fast fast era of ARPG's around PoE 2 when 1.0 comes around we'll likely see future expansions actually bring what the devs initially sought after with PoE 2.

I personally want a well rounded game here with no speed breaking meta builds and a streamlined campaign that doesnt feel like a second job to level through on alts and leagues extended to 6 months per.

[Harime Nui]

Originally posted by RawMeatDiet:

Originally posted by Harime Nui:

I enjoy glass canon builds too! but I've skill issue...

Same. It's why I started POE2 by only playing hardcore, had to get good enough very quick. If you play in a certain way you can play glass cannon even if you are bad mechanically and have bad reaction time. Can learn to be good at tactics.

so you go Spartan on yourself... I may try that sometime...