Meta Builds...

[Nightskies]

A. Are the most likely to get nerfs, especially if they capitalize on an unintended mechanic
B. Does not conform to the intended strength of a character at any given level (a meta build is a powerful build)
C. If gear dependent, does not go well with the game's drop and crafting system - and is reliant on using the trade system (drops and crafting is not designed to give you specific stats)
D. Sidesteps one of the intended parts of playing the game- creating your own build

Meta builds can be fun for various reasons, personally I find them fun to talk about and to learn about mechanics, but its not the baseline for playing the game.

Please don't try to change the game to conform to the playstyle of copying or imitating meta builds. Playing the game to one's own build, adapting as needed, is a fantastic experience.

The long term players are not trend-following players.

In other words, if playing meta builds, please consider that the game is not intended to conform to that playstyle before making complaints.

[SolutionS]

Ok, thanks for your opinions.

[ffrotty]

Meta builds are just the builds that have the most power gain at any step of the game.

For example to level from 1-20 there is one build that is the best for every starting character within a reasonable expectation of stats on gear.

Any choices away from that build is a less efficient route to level 20.


At the ultra endgame, it's obvious what ascendancies and builds are "meta" because there are ridiculous multipliers that not everyone gets access to.

And so they are right to dismantle those meta "builds" because they add up to taking advantage of interactions of gear and passives that decimate the power curve. And with new skills/ascendancies/nerfs/buffs people will just find the new meta builds.

To the "creating your own build" point, the problem is most all builds funnel to the metas eventually, as those builds hit a hard limit on power gains.

For example, you can get to high tier maps with your homebrew build, but hit a point where you're never going to increase clear speed or boss kill time substantially without veering towards whatever OP meta interaction.

Titans and Warbringers clear abysmally slow without using cultist greathammer, until they pivot and fit in polcirklen and herald of ice (like the other gorillion builds using that for clear).

So yeah, feel free to make your own warrior build until you get bored of low currency generation and rng boss clear with empowered/crit hammers, and switch to the meta.

Same with playing fire or cold sorc. All roads point to "cast on" spam and/or lightning quadruple dipping.

[RawMeatDiet]

It's fine, warrior will get nerfed next patch. They overbuffed armour.

[ffrotty]

Originally posted by RawMeatDiet:

It's fine, warrior will get nerfed next patch. They overbuffed armour.

well ironically they nerfed warriors with the armor changes, because only warriors do substantial physical and the armor changes impacted mobs' armor, leading to slower clear times for literally only warriors.

[RawMeatDiet]

Originally posted by ffrotty:

Originally posted by RawMeatDiet:

It's fine, warrior will get nerfed next patch. They overbuffed armour.

well ironically they nerfed warriors with the armor changes, because only warriors do substantial physical and the armor changes impacted mobs' armor, leading to slower clear times for literally only warriors.

Slower clearspeed might be part of the vision as warriors are already graced with the privilege of using big bonk maces.

[wano.]

Meta builds will always exist, no matter how the game is balanced. Unless ofc they balance the game to where every build functions the exact same with no differences.

Even if they brought power to other builds, people would still find the best builds and put them online which then other players will copy eventually anyways.

[Nightskies]

Let's define what meta is:

Originally posted by Liam Ho, professional game reporter:

In essence, a "meta" in gaming terminology is a generally agreed upon strategy by the community. Said strategy is considered to be the most optimal way to win/ has the best performance at a specific task. Some people have defined meta as an acronym meaning “most effective tactics available”.

Originally posted by Hitmarker, e-sports job platform:

Meta is a term used to describe the strongest strategy or playstyle currently available in a game. It’s often a combination of the right weapons & armor, tactics, and character build that high-level players have found to be especially effective. Many players choose to follow the meta to give them an upper hand when competing against others or progressing through a game’s story. There are a number of factors that influence a game’s meta, and it’s common for these to change regularly over time.

A meta build is merely a community-agreed build that is powerful. Hitmaker goes on to explain that more than the strongest strategy isn't the only meta.

This thread is not about the existence of meta in PoE2, but about points made by those who are chasing the meta, or solely play in it, with the expectation that the game conforms to those points.

The points I made demonstrate how the game does not cater to players who want to imitate meta builds. The only opinion I gave was about how I enjoy meta discussion.

That is not to say that the game is anti-meta - that would be silly - merely that it is built in a way that incidentally makes it harder to imitate a meta build (though perhaps it is intentional). The mechanics that make it so are good for players that aren't chasing the meta, that are playing the game without following YouTube or some such. Like most games, it is much better experienced firsthand.

For example, if crafting were changed so that it is easier to make a meta build, that would negatively impact the first-time play-through for most players that are figuring it out for themselves.

That is a good game design, engaging players. There are a plethora of builds that can work for fun that don't follow the meta, and there's certainly no need to reach level 100 for the typical player. Blasting the entire screen with Explosive Grenades to kill everything is fine, but is that really engaging, especially if merely copying some YouTuber?

This is directly pointing at complaints like "loot system bad".

[DirtyMick]

Ok