No Build variety.

[DELAMAIN]

You say wtf man.
I say Lightning and elemental.
I literaly have feeling that game punish for not using elemental damage.
Everywhere you look its Shock type of nodes and in reality Lightnibg builds not only Overperform but also everywhere on passive tree.

I liked my Galvanic Merc . I like Lightning concept.
But other types like Fire or Frost are underperforming.
PHYSICAL is uust pure....

Please add more fire/cold clasters for merc side.


I PLAY my own build on maps now. It feels great , looks great.
I do Physical damage Bleed crossbow.
Clearing screens with armour explosion.
Low Damage on Bosses.
WHY??
there is only 3 skills in Crossbow for physical damage to use for bleed...
And except armorpiece rou ds they all suck...
And BLEED itself sucks...low damage...

GEAR ROLLS

You can have phys% with elem %
You can have Damage of Phyc and Lighting
But you CANT have double phyc
Which means you are punished for not doing elemental in build.


CONCLUSION
so many great combos and build building mechanics but they all come to similar things and build types = elemental or Lightning.

[Tikigod]

Postat inițial de haemophage:

Postat inițial de Tikigod:

But the crucial thing about all of that is, the people feeling "Locked out of progress" and the like aren't locked out of progress, they're just trapped by their own build decisions and their insistence of sticking with things exactly as they are and not wanting to take on figuring out what compromises they could be making with their build to make it viable for the equipment they have.

It doesn't take any significant time investment to grab one of the dozen skill gems you've not had a use for out of your stash, make it into another skill and slot it in to replace something in your existing build that isn't working like you'd hoped, and figure out something that will work for now until you get items or more passive nodes assigned to make what you had wanted to try more viable.

But it does require the mentality to not expect to have everything your way nor for every decision you make to just work because you want it to. To be able to take on the task of understanding something and then critically look at the weak points of your decisions up until now compared to the content you're encountering and consider compromises to make adjustments that do work.

A lot of people are just doing things poorly informed, hitting resistance and then rather than understanding the source of the resistance and finding their own build solution, they're instead firing up Reddit, Youtube, Twitch etc and looking up "How to make my build work" guidance from other people and all they're seeing is completely different builds around common metas repeatedly used.

Because they don't know any better because they haven't taken that initial step to move on from being poorly informed and just immediately turned to looking at other peoples examples of what to do, they're then making very weakly based conclusions such as:

* "xxxx isn't viable"

* "yyyy and zzzz are the only things you can base your build on if you want to play"

* "If you don't get optimal min/max items through trading then no builds really work"

* "aaaa class is just trash and isn't playable"

All of which are wildly inaccurate, but because they can point to other people doing things that work and then point at their inability to make anything else work, they convince themselves that's firm proof that the problem is the game design, not the fact that much their personal struggle stems from how they never got out of the poorly informed ignorance phase of learning because they just started looking for examples of something that does work to replicate without understanding much of the basic principles in place first.

I appreciate the maturity of your reply. Thank you.

That said, i get your point but if a casual has invested 50-100hrs into a build and struggled the whole way through they are not going to want to spend the few resources and cash they have scrounged up totally rebuiilding their toon on the offchance that the info they did research is accurate and not clickbait bullpoop or heading for a nerf when ggg finish their holiday. I agree with the misinformation comment as this game is incredibly complicated and thats appealing but the consequences of mistakes are not positive. Its a case of blow all your resources or start again. If only a few builds are viable then we should be able to transition easily. Everything in this game is a gamble, thats great if you have stream paying for your stuff or daddys credit card but if your the 80% of the player base who can play a few hours here and there its not viable and should be made clear. I predict this game will shrink down over time to the streamers, rich and the elite basement dwellers. The casuals will not be motivated to run a 2 days risk assessment on the info available just to not make a mistake that will punish them with a 50hr restoration cycle or farming and earning cash to respec.

Maybe a casual and sweaty version would meet both types of players needs?

Completely shifting the skills you use in a build doesn't particularly require all that much investment or time.

Skill gems drop much more frequently then you have actual slots you have to assign skills to, so by the time someone hits Cruel Act 1 (Act 4 once the game releases) they should really have at the very least 6-12 blank higher level skill gems and at least half dozen blank support gems stored away in their stash to just rip out existing skills and slot in new ones to experiment with alternative combinations.

Testing viability of the changes would require some hopping around map markers to try out different areas that previously used to be a struggle or easy and see how different combinations fare, but once someone picks up more experience from experimenting with changes and running areas then I'd expect the time involved to experiment with different skill combinations would drop as they'd be able to more quickly gauge how something is holding up compared to their previous build state.

Generally from my experience there is never really a need to do any significant passive tree refocusing unless you're just outright not finding a particular play style fun for your tastes

(And by that I mean like you've gone for spell casting focus, and realised later you don't enjoy that style and would much rather do a melee character build).

To give an example from my own first character:

When going through the campaign on my first character day 1 of Early Access release, I decided I wanted to go with a Witch minion build, focusing my passive skills on Minion nodes, with the idea of having a wide range of different minions to form a large swarm.

By mid-way through Act 1 I decided that making a pure minion build work so early on in the game just wasn't going to play in a way that I would particularly like so I shifted the build toward a more ED/Contagion one for focused damage backed up with Spirit minions and large pack summons.

By the time I was running through the end of Act 2, I had removed my large pack summon skills entirely and replaced those skills with more Chaos DoT and AoE skills, now just running Warrior and Archer spirit minions and the Hellhound from the Infernalist ascendancy. As a result I was now focusing my passive tree on Chaos and DoT nodes more than I was minion nodes, but I kept the existing ones and felt no need to refund any of my previous choices.

By late Act 3, I had again swapped out some of my DoT and AoE chaos skills for operating a persistent curse aura that reduced the chaos resistance of anything that got in range, and also added in dark effigy to be able to summon a Chaos totem that stacked debuffs and damage to anything I'd hit with ED and Contagion.
As well as shifting a spirit skill to a aura that allowed me to gather additional energy shield for more survivability, to make up for some shortcomings in equipment rolls.

Again, I'd drastically shifted my skills and how my build played, but still hadn't refunded a single passive, as it all still synergised around the same damage principles.... Chaos damage over time, Minions that inflicted Chaos damage over time (Poison) and converting a % of minion physical damage into Chaos damage.


Cruel 1 was probably the last significant change I made, where I dropped all but 1 of my AoE skills, but then introduced Hex Blast into my build. Allowing me to apply contagion and essence drain to large groups of enemy from afar whilst my warriors and hellhound minions charged in and took most of the aggro and hits. But then when packs of enemy did swarm me, my persistent curse aura allowed me to instantly fire off Hex Blast and cause massive wide spread AoE explosions from every enemy my aura had cursed, wiping out entire packs in a single cast.

And because my curse was a persistent aura that reapplied within seconds, if one Hex blast didn't kill a pack, I could immediately fire off a second hex blast and finish off anything from the pack that had survived the first blast.

And my build very much exists as it was then up to now.

Next goal is to eventually ramp up my Spirit reserve so I can support a 2nd persistent curse aura so that Hex blast can AoE detonate two curses on each enemy and just melt the world.

And even though it plays massively different to its original inception on Act 1 through replacing skills using the many blank skill gems I was accumulating throughout the campaign, not once did I have to invest any gold to refund passives outside of twice where I refunded some attribute nodes that I had originally set up as strength nodes to accommodate some earlier equipment requirements and setting them to intelligence to accommodate higher level energy shield focused items.

I've transitioned through 3 entirely different build principles, all through nothing but changing skill gems around. With no additional gold or currency investment required, and if nothing else I feel I certainly learned quite a fair bit about the fundamental principles of what would be required to make each of those 3 builds viable across the various stages of the game.

And I did all of that entirely blind without any externally sourced information or guidance from any other resource other than what was provided in-game, playing casually a few hours every couple of days in-between a 60 hour work week in the lead up to the Christmas holidays.


Edit:

On a unrelated side note, you mention about Streamers having people fund their changes or having "Daddy's credit card" as a means for being able to more experiment and shift build concepts.... but I don't quite understand how you see this quite working?

As there is no actual real money aspect built into PoE 2 by GGG that allows you to buy currency to craft nor get additional gold to do passive tree refunds.

Everything to do with the microtransaction store is entirely cosmetic and there's absolutely no actual item/currency/gold aspect to anything offered. That's how GGG have always operated PoE and that's something that isn't going to change, so I'm a bit confused where you see real money expenses coming into the equation for adapting ones build.

[Tikigod]

Postat inițial de Lu2:

aim using physical xbow . its op . cluster node with grenades is way too op too . posion oil and explosive mixture . its way to broken against bosses

killed viper easily but i was forced to use shield against stabing soldiers

You should see how much poison damage can be done from high level Skeleton archers on a Witch focused on Chaos damage and applying a constant Chaos resist debuff aura! :D

Especially when you have that poison also shred armour.

Now if only my pesky Hellhound would stop detonating those poison clouds. lol

A Hellhound ignite toggle!
A Hellhound Ignite toggle!
My Kingdom for a Hellhound Ignite toggle!

[Shade30Seven]

Postat inițial de Tikigod:

Postat inițial de Lu2:

aim using physical xbow . its op . cluster node with grenades is way too op too . posion oil and explosive mixture . its way to broken against bosses

killed viper easily but i was forced to use shield against stabing soldiers

You should see how much poison damage from Skeleton archers can be done on a Witch focused on Chaos damage and nerfing enemy Chaos resist! :D

Especially when you have that poison also shred armor.

Now if only my pesky Hellhound would stop detonating those poison clouds. lol

keep going tiki i just wanna add.....

Another thing folks, Wither on poison/chaos is you're friend, with this debuff alone you can damm near stack -30% dmg debuff on -ALL- mobs.


Learn the game and ask question before you make assumptions!

[Tikigod]

Postat inițial de Shade30Seven:

Postat inițial de Tikigod:

You should see how much poison damage from Skeleton archers can be done on a Witch focused on Chaos damage and nerfing enemy Chaos resist! :D

Especially when you have that poison also shred armor.

Now if only my pesky Hellhound would stop detonating those poison clouds. lol

keep going tiki i just wanna add.....

Another thing folks, Wither on poison/chaos is you're friend, with this debuff alone you can damm near stack -30% dmg debuff on -ALL- mobs.


Learn the game and ask question before you make assumptions!

mmmm yeah it's pretty tasty.

Essence Drain + Chain Support + Wither on hit Support + % chance to fire multiple projectiles on spell cast nodes from the passive tree.

Was my go to debuff tool for a long time.

Eventually ended shifting Wither on hit to my Dark Effigy totem though as it was able to ramp up the wither hit stacks much higher than ED could for those longer fights, especially if I used the support gem to allow 2 of totems to be placed.


Edit: And I just realised, I never did look into if Skeleton Archers can support wither on hit support and if their command skill counts as a hit.

I suspect not as that would be a pretty weird hit classification, as the command skill is technically a AoE cast.

[Ghostlight]

Postat inițial de DJ Deckard Cain:

It's almost like...

THEY'RE FORCING US TO PLAY CERTAIN THINGS TO TEST THEM.

Fair enough.

Test failed then.

[Shade30Seven]

Postat inițial de Tikigod:

Postat inițial de Shade30Seven:

keep going tiki i just wanna add.....

Another thing folks, Wither on poison/chaos is you're friend, with this debuff alone you can damm near stack -30% dmg debuff on -ALL- mobs.


Learn the game and ask question before you make assumptions!

mmmm yeah it's pretty tasty.

Essence Drain + Chain Support + Wither on hit Support + % chance to fire multiple projectiles on spell cast nodes from the passive tree.

Was my go to debuff tool for a long time.

Eventually ended shifting Wither on hit to my Dark Effigy totem though as it was able to ramp up the wither hit stacks much higher than ED could for those longer fights, especially if I used the support gem to allow 2 of totems to be placed.


Edit: And I just realised, I never did look into if Skeleton Archers can support wither on hit support and if their command skill counts as a hit.

I suspect not as that would be a pretty weird hit classification, as the command skill is technically a AoE cast.

this is good to know people can learn here
I haven't tried it on witch I use it on pathfinder, I pathed up north to get ES and more chaos damage, and damage debuffs, I was using the Dark Effigy but I had trouble keeping it alive being that its a totem I had a hard time supporting it on pathfinder so i switched to withering presents and I took the "wither away" nodes witch gives me another 40% effect to wither!

I also use despair for rares, and bosses, this is a godsend! I also filled in
"fated end" gives me 90% up time on despair and it also makes it so mobs and bosses cant regen life or ES, witch i find two very annoying affixes on mobs! this makes it so they cant regen the poison damage, Just with these two minor tweaks of build crafting I went from slowly watching them die to just evaporating them, and this is with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ gear! lol I just wonder what it will be like when i finish my build!

Both withering presents and despair are literally right next to each other on the tree, its like they were ment for us to use them both on poising/ chaos debuff builds!

[(Farkon) 2m_anylootboxes]

Postat inițial de DELAMAIN:

Postat inițial de (Farkon) 2m_anylootboxes:

I have no lightning, ice, and fire nodes for my elemental witchhunter and yet I use all 3 heralds to great effect.

It's not the game's fault you're uncreative in making builds.

So you do elemental damage and dont use elemental nodes and loosing damage means that i am not creative?

You convert fire to cold with blueflame to use herald of ice. Wow how did i guess.

Incorrect I said ALL heralds, pay attention, and I have enough damage tor tier 15s, enough single target for cits as well.

[Tikigod]

Postat inițial de Shade30Seven:

Postat inițial de Tikigod:

mmmm yeah it's pretty tasty.

Essence Drain + Chain Support + Wither on hit Support + % chance to fire multiple projectiles on spell cast nodes from the passive tree.

Was my go to debuff tool for a long time.

Eventually ended shifting Wither on hit to my Dark Effigy totem though as it was able to ramp up the wither hit stacks much higher than ED could for those longer fights, especially if I used the support gem to allow 2 of totems to be placed.


Edit: And I just realised, I never did look into if Skeleton Archers can support wither on hit support and if their command skill counts as a hit.

I suspect not as that would be a pretty weird hit classification, as the command skill is technically a AoE cast.

this is good to know people can learn here
I haven't tried it on witch I use it on pathfinder, I pathed up north to get ES and more chaos damage, and damage debuffs, I was using the Dark Effigy but I had trouble keeping it alive being that its a totem I had a hard time supporting it on pathfinder so i switched to withering presents and I took the "wither away" nodes witch gives me another 40% effect to wither!

I also use despair for rares, and bosses, this is a godsend! I also filled in
"fated end" gives me 90% up time on despair and it also makes it so mobs and bosses cant regen life or ES, witch i find two very annoying affixes on mobs! this makes it so they cant regen the poison damage, Just with these two minor tweaks of build crafting I went from slowly watching them die to just evaporating them, and this is with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ gear! lol I just wonder what it will be like when i finish my build!

Both withering presents and despair are literally right next to each other on the tree, its like they were ment for us to use them both on poising/ chaos debuff builds!

lol yeah, when you look at your gear and realise you're level 50-60+ and some of your items are still level 16-20 but with solid affixes that ramp up your build it makes you wonder just how much more powerful the right drop is going to make you.

Until Early Act 1 Cruel I was still using a level 20 wand.

And up until right at the end of Act 1 Cruel after I beat the Count again I was still using a level 16 Sceptre I'd been using since the start of Normal Act 2 lmao.


For my Witch I used a spirit gem to get Blasphemy, a aura skill that lets you slot any curses into it to automatically apply the curses to any enemy in range. Then used the larger AoE support skill along side.

Then slotted Despair into the 2nd slot of Blasphemy so any enemy that gets anywhere near me just instantly takes a constant chaos resist debuff unless it creates distance from me.

That's why I ended up going with Hex Blast that detonates all curses in its AoE to create AoE explosions for each curse that hurts everything for pure chaos damage.

As Blasphemy then immediately reapplies the Despair almost the second Hex Blast detonates it, theoretically I could just keep spamming Hex Blast until everything is dead. But as the damage from Hex Blast scales on how many curses it's detonating at a time, it's not so great for single larger target engagements.... Yet....

Once I have the spirit reserve to have Blasphemy support two constant curses without having to reduce my spirit minion count, then we'll see.

For now though, Hex Blast clears any pack of normal or magic monsters I feel the need to nuke if they try to swarm me, larger single enemy then get the full ED, Contagion, Effigy totem that Wither, Archer Poison that shreds their armour and Bone Blast that also inflicts poison for when my archers are resummoning or the command skill is on cool down.

And anything I am fighting directly always has a chaos resist debuff due to me simply existing, unless I'm creating distance from some nasty one shot AoEs about to land.

Works quite well for me.

[Ulfar]

I absolutely agree that unless you are playing the favoured build you will get nerfed. I am salty because all of the trigger gems are absolutelyt pointless unless you are playing the favoured build. Whoever is in charge of balance must be playing spark sorceror, a build that can 1 shot bosses and farms lack a tractor but is nerf immune.(I don't want them nerfed, raise the rest of the boats). Everyone else who finds any sort of power gets nerfed and has to use a sickle to farm.

It has got so bad I was going to go back to POE 1, but instead(because I am so pissed off at GGG)I have started Torchlight inifinte, not a perfect game. I am just starting and it feels so much nicer.

In the future the balance problems are going to get much much worse, I play minion witch and was dissapointed when we didn't get spectres I get the feeling they cannot balance them. What is going to happen when they release Druid which also uses minion or golems or any other minions.

The core problem I think is GGG have reverted to nerfing anything the sweaty boys get into which totally penalises everyone else lower down.

[Shade30Seven]

Postat inițial de Tikigod:

Works quite well for me.

It works for you because you made it work for you, you tested things and theory crafted and manipulated the skills, gear and passives with what you had to make the build work.
This is what so many people fail to realize, what works for some people may not work for others, this is why copying builds online isn't always the best alternative alot of times.

Dont get me wrong Its good to get insight but just to stone cold copy or worrying about whats meta, and whats gonna get nerfed next is not wise.
Theres also some very experienced players like tiki and myself here that can guide folks and help new players but in the end we cant play the build for you, its up to you to apply the knowledge thats given and make a build work for you're given play-style!
I can tell you this much nobody wants to help folks that are just negative, and entitled and allot of you are just here to cause problems and to piss people off! If you genuinely need help just ask me, If I know I will give insight if I dont know we will find somebody who does!

[AFK]

YOUR ONLY BUILD IS TO PUT ALL IN RARETY FOUND % !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVERYTHING ELSE IS POINTLESS

[Shade30Seven]

Postat inițial de AFK:

YOUR ONLY BUILD IS TO PUT ALL IN RARETY FOUND % !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVERYTHING ELSE IS POINTLESS

This is an EA mechanical issue, not so much a build or skill issue.
this will get addressed in time!

[DELAMAIN]

Postat inițial de AFK:

YOUR ONLY BUILD IS TO PUT ALL IN RARETY FOUND % !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVERYTHING ELSE IS POINTLESS

For what?
To make cyrrency drop grind simulator?
So that you grind divines to buy gear for build which as you say dont matter bec it cant farm divines?
I came to play game. Not a job

[Lord Headass]

Postat inițial de PsychaChi:

We're all going to laugh so hard when lightning is gutted when they get back.

archemage users beware.

Good. Melee is utter trash in POE, and it's even WORSE in POE2. Stop sucking off easy-mode mages/rangers and maybe finally make melee and armor work decently...

[DaciValt]

Postat inițial de Lord Headass:

Good. Melee is utter trash in POE, and it's even WORSE in POE2. Stop sucking off easy-mode mages/rangers and maybe finally make melee and armor work decently...

Excuseeeee me, melee uses lightning too *coughs* monk *coughs*