Doryani - why is he simpler than the Viper and Silverfist?

[Beta Ray Shill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9wCU8seh5I
Just beat him on the 2nd attempt.

The visual design is outstanding. Possibly the best-designed boss in any ARPG I've ever played.

Quite an amazing amount of effort went into the detail.

Overall, I think it's a fair fight. But IMO he is another 'bullet sponge' taking 5min to defeat.

All of these 'end of act' bosses need a 10% HP reduction.

The slam move that one-shots is well-telegraphed and I think quite fair. But a one-shot for a boss with such high HP is bad design I think. They should really look at their one-shot boss mechanics and instead convert them to a % hit, between 90-99% reduction instead.

What baffles me the most though is how can this boss by simpler than Silverfist and especially Viper?

Viper on SSF is the toughest, craziest boss design in the entire game, hands down.

[gachi is manly]

It's hard to find a happy medium where the boss isn't spongy but also isn't just getting nuked in 20 seconds flat by people with a good weapon and good build.

Personally by the time I reached him in act 3, I was powerful enough that I think the whole fight took like, a minute and a half. If that.

When I got to him in cruel, he barely lasted for 20 seconds. Hell, he only lasted through getting frozen once due to the 2nd phase.

It's tough to balance around the lower end of builds/weapons while not making it embarassingly easy for people who are doing well.

[Detergent]

Is it actually a one shot or are you just not able to survive the shot?
I don't think I was ever actually 1 shot from full by any campaign boss besides the Gorilla holding a statue.

[Kai]

Unlike other bosses, he's still human.

[gachi is manly]

Originally posted by Detergent:

Is it actually a one shot or are you just not able to survive the shot?
I don't think I was ever actually 1 shot from full by any campaign boss besides the Gorilla holding a statue.

I think he has a genuine one shot when the giant fist is hovering over you. Then again, it's so telegraphed and dodgeable that I don't have much first hand experience getting hit by it to see if it's actually a guaranteed OHKO.

There's some campaign bosses that have attacks that are almost guaranteed OHKO for most builds. Somebody tested the titan in valley of titans and found out he has an attack that deals approximately 6k damage. And that's the normal version, not cruel.

[Ginebro]

Pretty much impossible to balance this kind of game for all builds, even then you get lucky with a new weapon and they die in a split second, on the other hand if you nerf weapon power creep farming becomes boring.

[Kao]

I found Doryani to be a very cool fight, one of my favourites from the campaign.
It is very fair, bordering on too easy (for my rangers, at least).
One thing I disagree on, is your opinion on his HP bar.
If any boss takes you 5 minutes, it means your build is lacking damage.

I have experimented with several builds. On my worst build, a fight could take 10 minutes. On my best one, it takes 30 seconds. People will say "this or that boss is too tanky", but I don’t think HP varies that much between bosses. They just fought "that boss" at a time their build was waning.

I don’t know if that video is from you, but that sorc’s dps is absolutely atrocious and nowhere near where it could/should be. Kudos for not following a meta build though.

Concerning your title, I think Doryani is still harder than Silverfist. That’s to say, Silverfist is even easier than Doryani. Just dodge that one slam and you’re good to go, while Doryani has several hard hitting moves. Viper I agree is way harder. Perhaps a bit too hard, unless someone can tell me how to reliably avoid the purple pancakes of doom.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by gachi is manly:

It's hard to find a happy medium where the boss isn't spongy but also isn't just getting nuked in 20 seconds flat by people with a good weapon and good build. [...]

It's tough to balance around the lower end of builds/weapons while not making it embarassingly easy for people who are doing well.

For SSF, very few if any will get much better than the stats I have - all rares, numerous damage increases and res penetration. Full list at the end.

But from what I've seen from other youtube videos, this is an OP build that still takes nearly 4min to beat the boss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVMIsYDNI-c
You can see from the comments others verify the same. There's no skill or focus required with whatever setup this guy has.

If it's taking you even less time, then what's the point in even playing the game?

'Doing well' at the game is not exploiting the trade to win or craft to win systems (and other game-breaking mechanics).

Why pay for a game if you're just going to break it?

I believe the video I posted demonstrates that skill was required. Most I imagine are in the same boat as myself where they won't be running with some game-breaking exploit.

Full stats below:

---

Wand
+ 54% spell damage
+1 all spell levels

Magic shield -
+ 28% spell damage
+1 all spell levels

Spark level 12
+12% damage per other elm used recently (support gem)

Mana tempest
+12% damage (support gem)

Passives fire damage increase:
+12%
+18%
+12%
+12%
+12%
+12%
+12%
+8%

Res fire res penetration:
+6%
+6%
+18%
+6%
+6%
+15%

Passive lightning damage increase:
+12%
+12%
+12%
+12%
+12%
+2% per 10 int
+18%
+10%

Passive global spell damage increase:
+10%
+10%
+10%
+30%
+10%
+10%
+8%
+20%

Elemental global
+8%

Charm:
immunity to poison x 2 uses

[Sleazy Ninja]

Originally posted by Kao:

I found Doryani to be a very cool fight, one of my favourites from the campaign.
It is very fair, bordering on too easy (for my rangers, at least).
One thing I disagree on, is your opinion on his HP bar.
If any boss takes you 5 minutes, it means your build is lacking damage.

I have experimented with several builds. On my worst build, a fight could take 10 minutes. On my best one, it takes 30 seconds. People will say "this or that boss is too tanky", but I don’t think HP varies that much between bosses. They just fought "that boss" at a time their build was waning.

I don’t know if that video is from you, but that sorc’s dps is absolutely atrocious and nowhere near where it could/should be. Kudos for not following a meta build though.

This is the truth. Most people wont even know how bad their build is until they try something else or at least read up on mechanics. Those are the same people that scream GAME SUXXX when they get killed by the same boss 4-5 times.

[Ginebro]

I saw the video, ok your dmg is low but if you're not following a guide that's the best way to play the game.
Without spoiling anything i would suggest 2 things.
- Check vendors every time you level up, they reroll.
- Try to find better buff auras, you aren't using all your spirit and the skulls won't do much if you're on a elemental build.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by Detergent:

I don't think I was ever actually 1 shot from full by any campaign boss besides the Gorilla holding a statue.

The comments in the other video I posted show I am not the only one being one-shotted by this guy's slam attack.

Originally posted by Ginebro:

Pretty much impossible to balance this kind of game for all builds, even then you get lucky with a new weapon and they die in a split second, on the other hand if you nerf weapon power creep farming becomes boring.

SSF. Different business than the impossible to balance broken trade system.

I think of SSF as the 'real game'. As you can see from the stats I posted, it's not possible to get higher weapon damage for the sorc (54% spell damage increase from the wand, 28% increase from the magic shield, +1 all skills from both).

Originally posted by Kao:

One thing I disagree on, is your opinion on his HP bar.
If any boss takes you 5 minutes, it means your build is lacking damage.

I quoted the stats above.

As you can see, it's not possible to get any higher with the damage increase, since I have gone 'glass cannon', with almost all points spent on damage increase + res penetration.

Also the weapon and wand combo cannot provide a higher damage increase.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by Ginebro:

I saw the video, ok your dmg is low but if you're not following a guide that's the best way to play the game.

See the stats I quoted mate - not possible to increase the damage, unfortunately. But you can certainly correct me by referencing the provided material and pointing out any errors.

Following a blueprint - no thanks.

It's a game, not a job.

[gachi is manly]

Originally posted by Beta Ray Shill:

Originally posted by gachi is manly:

It's hard to find a happy medium where the boss isn't spongy but also isn't just getting nuked in 20 seconds flat by people with a good weapon and good build. [...]

It's tough to balance around the lower end of builds/weapons while not making it embarassingly easy for people who are doing well.

For SSF, very few if any will get much better than the stats I have - all rares, numerous damage increases and res penetration. Full list at the end.

But from what I've seen from other youtube videos, this is an OP build that still takes nearly 4min to beat the boss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVMIsYDNI-c
You can see from the comments others verify the same. There's no skill or focus required with whatever setup this guy has.

If it's taking you even less time, then what's the point in even playing the game?

It's not like I was exploiting anything or looking at a build. I fought him in the first few days of EA before anybody even knew what was weak or strong. I just was keeping my weapon upgraded often and running a lot of damage on my tree.

And yea, if they make the boss even easier when he was already a breeze for me, then you see the dilemma here. With how much variance there is in build, skills, passive, etc, there's bound to be large discrepancies in how difficult and spongy the bosses are.

I play the game to at least be moderately challenged, so yea, naturally I'm going to push back on making bosses take even less time.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by gachi is manly:

It's not like I was exploiting anything or looking at a build.

So quote the stats - your passives and gear, so it's possible to mathematically assess how you ended up in that situation.

This will assist the devs, as clearly you have some kind of game-breaking gear.

[Ginebro]

Originally posted by Beta Ray Shill:

But from what I've seen from other youtube videos, this is an OP build that still takes nearly 4min to beat the boss:

My god, that monk is terrible, he isn't even using charged staff... but still beating a boss in 3min feels like the correct time if you ask me.

That said with all those dmg increases seems like the damage is indeed low, spell gems might have a bit too low dmg on the lower lvs, stormweaver is the most played class endgame tho.

[Mapk]

I like this boss! After freekin Viper, I'm relieved it get's a bit easier.