It feels like im forced into builds too soon

[Toli]

I have very little experience with ARPG games, but my favorite aspects of these games is trying all the different spells and abilities just to see what I would like and then when I start to hit walls with a build of my own creation (typically mid to late game) ill find builds based on the things I find the most interesting. I dont expect myself to find good builds on my own and dont mind following guides, but I feel like so far with this game, i cannot really even fiddle around on my own and im just barely into act 2. I know many will disagree with me when I say this but I personally dont like to min-max the early game since for me its more of an experimental time where I learn different aspects of the class and with the large spike of difficulties (especially around bosses) it feels like I have to turn to guides to have fun in the game when im only a couple hours in or I just constantly fail to progress. I dont mind the difficulty, I just wish it was a smoother on ramp to allow players like me to figure out what I might even like before being forced into hard committing to a build

[Hanti]

to keep it simple. you are not it. take the recommended stuff or face the truth that you have no idea what you are doing. don't make this topics.

And about bosses and being forced.. you can dodgeroll all day long if you know what you are doing. If you can't get hit you can't die. So damage is optional at the end of the day (early game)

[tolshortte]

ignore the trolls. youre right. for a game that touted variability and variety in builds there is actually very little that is viable.

ive mentioned the onboarding more than once. again the trolls and nut hugging fanbois will deny it but anyone with any time in the game can see it.

the upside is this is early EA. i have hope and faith it will improve.

making builds is the fun part for me. end game is just more map clearing.....meh. so far the cookie cutter build guides are the only way to do high tier maps. any suggestion that build variety exists is laughable. im currently running a warrior i just tweaked with mace/board/cold and while its fun its never going to compete with sunder/stampede builds. and any thoughts of going no shield is a death sentence

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by Hanti:

to keep it simple. you are not it. take the recommended stuff or face the truth that you have no idea what you are doing. don't make this topics.

And about bosses and being forced.. you can dodgeroll all day long if you know what you are doing. If you can't get hit you can't die. So damage is optional at the end of the day (early game)

One of the weirdest things about the community is how they praise the build variety, yet still think "dodge roll" being a mandatory strategy for everything is such a great idea.

[Toli]

Originally posted by Hanti:

to keep it simple. you are not it. take the recommended stuff or face the truth that you have no idea what you are doing. don't make this topics.

And about bosses and being forced.. you can dodgeroll all day long if you know what you are doing. If you can't get hit you can't die. So damage is optional at the end of the day (early game)

Yes thats the point. I dont know what im doing but i dont feel like i should feel the need to research the fun out of the game for me before I even start playing it. Like i said, a random build I make from just throwing stuff together and doing my best shouldnt get me far but I think hitting that wall prior to a quarter of the way through the game is a little too soon.

In terms of bosses. Thats not entirely true. There seems to be quite a bit of bosses that like to swarm you with adds during the boss fight so if you dont have a build thats able to kill all the adds effectively while doing meaningful boss damage than its going to be hard to progress. Yes the majority of bosses, even with bad builds can be overcome with alot of skill but there are some bosses where builds feel more important than the skill. In addition to this point you are basically saying that the counterpart of having a good build is just playing nearly perfectly to kill a boss without being hit which to say that as someone who is like 2 hours into the game and not even a quarter of the way through the story is pretty insane.

[Hanti]

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

Originally posted by Hanti:

to keep it simple. you are not it. take the recommended stuff or face the truth that you have no idea what you are doing. don't make this topics.

And about bosses and being forced.. you can dodgeroll all day long if you know what you are doing. If you can't get hit you can't die. So damage is optional at the end of the day (early game)

One of the weirdest things about the community is how they praise the build variety, yet still think "dodge roll" being a mandatory strategy for everything is such a great idea.

not my fault that the game is build around the dodge roll, refuse to use it but don't cry

[Hanti]

Toli i didn't play poe1. I didn't watch guides. Blablala. I build a staple frost sorc with regen, crit, multi projectiles, i clear maps without much trouble. Why? I just took recommended stuff. I can start experimenting with skills once i know what's available. Why exactly ruin your first char like that?

Same with respecs. Why is everyone changing skills all the time? Reach endgame first, get some items, decide what you want.. don't do a full respecc because something killed you twice.

[OMNOMNOM BAGEL]

PoE needs extensive Game knowledge before you can try your own stuff. Is like that in PoE 1 and will most likely stay the same in PoE 2.

If you can handle that then PoE is just no game for you. In Diablo for example its the other way around so you might find more enjoyment there.

[JohnMiller92]

Originally posted by Hanti:

to keep it simple. you are not it. take the recommended stuff or face the truth that you have no idea what you are doing. don't make this topics.

And about bosses and being forced.. you can dodgeroll all day long if you know what you are doing. If you can't get hit you can't die. So damage is optional at the end of the day (early game)

lmao jesus. let the guy create his topics! it's a forum after all, lol

[tolshortte]

Originally posted by Hanti:

Toli i didn't play poe1. I didn't watch guides. Blablala. I build a staple frost sorc with regen, crit, multi projectiles, i clear maps without much trouble. Why? I just took recommended stuff. I can start experimenting with skills once i know what's available. Why exactly ruin your first char like that?

Same with respecs. Why is everyone changing skills all the time? Reach endgame first, get some items, decide what you want.. don't do a full respecc because something killed you twice.

what you call ruin OP calls experimentation or fun by the sounds of it. and they want to play that way because thats how it was advertised. i realize the thought of using a product based on how it was sold is a crazy idea to some but to others its literally why they bought the game

[Toli]

Originally posted by Hanti:

Toli i didn't play poe1. I didn't watch guides. Blablala. I build a staple frost sorc with regen, crit, multi projectiles, i clear maps without much trouble. Why? I just took recommended stuff. I can start experimenting with skills once i know what's available. Why exactly ruin your first char like that?

Same with respecs. Why is everyone changing skills all the time? Reach endgame first, get some items, decide what you want.. don't do a full respecc because something killed you twice.

Maybe its because people want to enjoy the differently than you do. I am a person who gets burnt out of these games very fast so the enjoyable part for me is trying all the different things to keep me entertained. If im forced into certain builds until I reach the endgame, thats not fun to me. Not saying youre wrong for having your opinion on how you like to play the game, its just personally not how i like to play it. I am someone who cares about the early - mid game because thats where i have the most fun experimenting and thats where most players find it a slog because they arent full min-maxed build yet clearing maps. I dont think its harming anyone (including the heavy min-maxers) to have a larger amount of time to just do random things.

[JohnMiller92]

Originally posted by Toli:

Originally posted by Hanti:

Toli i didn't play poe1. I didn't watch guides. Blablala. I build a staple frost sorc with regen, crit, multi projectiles, i clear maps without much trouble. Why? I just took recommended stuff. I can start experimenting with skills once i know what's available. Why exactly ruin your first char like that?

Same with respecs. Why is everyone changing skills all the time? Reach endgame first, get some items, decide what you want.. don't do a full respecc because something killed you twice.

Maybe its because people want to enjoy the differently than you do. I am a person who gets burnt out of these games very fast so the enjoyable part for me is trying all the different things to keep me entertained. If im forced into certain builds until I reach the endgame, thats not fun to me. Not saying youre wrong for having your opinion on how you like to play the game, its just personally not how i like to play it. I am someone who cares about the early - mid game because thats where i have the most fun experimenting and thats where most players find it a slog because they arent full min-maxed build yet clearing maps. I dont think its harming anyone (including the heavy min-maxers) to have a larger amount of time to just do random things.

i agree. one of the best times in my life was during Path of Building days theorycrafting a build for hours upon hours, then leveling it up and having it come to fruition. didn't follow a streamer, maxroll BS site, or a guide on the forum.

nowadays, players just want instant gratification and copycat a streamer/build and then qq on the forums after they had fun for 100 hours. rinse n repeat. lmao

[Toli]

Originally posted by OMNOMNOM BAGEL:

PoE needs extensive Game knowledge before you can try your own stuff. Is like that in PoE 1 and will most likely stay the same in PoE 2.

If you can handle that then PoE is just no game for you. In Diablo for example its the other way around so you might find more enjoyment there.

Yes it does require extensive game knowledge, but should that game knowledge be required only a couple hours into the game before youve even unlocked half the spells or completed a quarter of the game? I understand min-maxing is part of these types of games, but min-maxing 2 hours into the game when youre far from endgame just to progress is just something i feel like does not need to happen.

[tolshortte]

Originally posted by JohnMiller92:

Originally posted by Toli:

Maybe its because people want to enjoy the differently than you do. I am a person who gets burnt out of these games very fast so the enjoyable part for me is trying all the different things to keep me entertained. If im forced into certain builds until I reach the endgame, thats not fun to me. Not saying youre wrong for having your opinion on how you like to play the game, its just personally not how i like to play it. I am someone who cares about the early - mid game because thats where i have the most fun experimenting and thats where most players find it a slog because they arent full min-maxed build yet clearing maps. I dont think its harming anyone (including the heavy min-maxers) to have a larger amount of time to just do random things.

i agree. one of the best times in my life was during Path of Building days theorycrafting a build for hours upon hours, then leveling it up and having it come to fruition. didn't follow a streamer, maxroll BS site, or a guide on the forum.

nowadays, players just want instant gratification and copycat a streamer/build and then qq on the forums after they had fun for 100 hours. rinse n repeat. lmao

this is EA and rushing endgame, to quite frankly be disappointed, makes no sense to me. but hey theyre doing it on Twitch so that must be what the cool kids are doing

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by Hanti:

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

One of the weirdest things about the community is how they praise the build variety, yet still think "dodge roll" being a mandatory strategy for everything is such a great idea.

not my fault that the game is build around the dodge roll, refuse to use it but don't cry

Not crying.

Just pointing out the HUGE break in logic.

[OMNOMNOM BAGEL]

Originally posted by Toli:

Originally posted by OMNOMNOM BAGEL:

PoE needs extensive Game knowledge before you can try your own stuff. Is like that in PoE 1 and will most likely stay the same in PoE 2.

If you can handle that then PoE is just no game for you. In Diablo for example its the other way around so you might find more enjoyment there.

Yes it does require extensive game knowledge, but should that game knowledge be required only a couple hours into the game before youve even unlocked half the spells or completed a quarter of the game? I understand min-maxing is part of these types of games, but min-maxing 2 hours into the game when youre far from endgame just to progress is just something i feel like does not need to happen.

I dont think there is any middle ground here for the time being. Maybe with full release they tune the difficulty to be more "experiment friendly" for newcomers. But truth be told I doubt it.
GGG success comes from exactly that. The more you play the more fun it gets. While other games may deliver the fun more frontloaded.
Right now the best way to play if you dont have multiple thousands of hours in PoE 1 already , is to just follow a guide of a Class/Playstyle you like. Nobody says you cant just start improving on that and giving the Build your own touch.