Does GGG hate casuals?

[Alek]

I really have the feeling thats kinda true.

Normal Campaign is waaaaaaaaaay harder than cruel.
Some classes are nearly impossible to start with, like warrior.
And if a casual really beat the campain he faces the true nightmare, the Endgame.
Every little mistake is punished absolutly brutal. Map lost, Loot on the ground lost, exp lost and lot of time wasted....

Shouldnt POE2 suppose to be more casual friendly because POE1 was to confusing for them? It feels like it got even worse for casuals

Am i wrong about it?

[Constant_K]

The campaign repeat, terrible and necessary trading features and toxic community will lock casuals out of the end game and leagues. The danger is that the difficulty/pacing will just turn off a wider audience from a regular playthrough.

I don't think it will with the numbers still playing EA after two weeks because they will invariable make the game easier for 1.0 and attract even more people for launch.

They could remove campaign repeat and add decent trading features or make self found actually enjoyable and make a ton of money long term. Nothing you can do about the edgelords though.

[SomewhatSolo]

引用自 damionjack：

引用自 Cereal Guy：

damionjack over on chess.com telling them they need to nerf chess so he can play it too

PoE2 is not the same as chess... But yes! If I wanted to learn chess I would ask someone to teach me. Start me off as a student/novice because thats what I would be. Whats wrong with that?

Then once I learned a bit I would try something a little harder. Then a little harder again. Thats what I am saying...

But atm GGG is skipping all that. They need to add in Easy/Standard/Hard. That would be progression.

Using all tools the game gives you makes for a game that does exactly what you expect before going in to each situation which determines the difficulty expected.

In other words, use Currency and Vendors every Level. RNG is RNG though but the tools are there to keep the game balanced as you go. It really does work, just have to play the game as intended.

The game was crazy hard for a long time when I first started playing but then I started to use the tools the game provided. Now I find most everything quite balanced or I'm Over Powered. No joke.

[damionjack]

引用自 SomewhatSolo：

引用自 damionjack：

PoE2 is not the same as chess... But yes! If I wanted to learn chess I would ask someone to teach me. Start me off as a student/novice because thats what I would be. Whats wrong with that?

Then once I learned a bit I would try something a little harder. Then a little harder again. Thats what I am saying...

But atm GGG is skipping all that. They need to add in Easy/Standard/Hard. That would be progression.

Using all tools the game gives you makes for a game that does exactly what you expect before going in to each situation which determines the difficulty expected.

In other words, use Currency and Vendors every Level. RNG is RNG though but the tools are there to keep the game balanced as you go. It really does work, just have to play the game as intended.

The game was crazy hard for a long time when I first started playing but then I started to use the tools the game provided. Now I find most everything quite balanced or I'm Over Powered. No joke.

I did all that. I farmed XP and over-leveled. i spent orbs on level appropriate gear. I farmed up extra skill/support gems.

[damionjack]

引用自 damionjack：

引用自 SomewhatSolo：

Using all tools the game gives you makes for a game that does exactly what you expect before going in to each situation which determines the difficulty expected.

In other words, use Currency and Vendors every Level. RNG is RNG though but the tools are there to keep the game balanced as you go. It really does work, just have to play the game as intended.

The game was crazy hard for a long time when I first started playing but then I started to use the tools the game provided. Now I find most everything quite balanced or I'm Over Powered. No joke.

I did all that. I farmed XP and over-leveled. i spent orbs on level appropriate gear. I farmed up extra skill/support gems.

Still struggled to beat the first boss of Act 2. Tried about 6 times before giving up. Only so many times I can smoosh my face into a wall before I give up afterall.

[Takkik]

引用自 Constant_K：

The campaign repeat, terrible and necessary trading features and toxic community will lock casuals out of the end game and leagues. The danger is that the difficulty/pacing will just turn off a wider audience from a regular playthrough.

I don't think it will with the numbers still playing EA after two weeks because they will invariable make the game easier for 1.0 and attract even more people for launch.

They could remove campaign repeat and add decent trading features or make self found actually enjoyable and make a ton of money long term. Nothing you can do about the edgelords though.

The campaign repeat because it miss 3 acts. Anyone read EA infos before buying a EA game? Don't need to look far to understand why people fail at early game.

引用自 SomewhatSolo：

In other words, use Currency and Vendors every Level. RNG is RNG though but the tools are there to keep the game balanced as you go. It really does work, just have to play the game as intended.

The game was crazy hard for a long time when I first started playing but then I started to use the tools the game provided. Now I find most everything quite balanced or I'm Over Powered. No joke.

This. People refuse to adapte/read/learn gameplay. And this they nerfed/buffed the loot, it's even easier now. When you learn the mecaniques and use the tools at your disposition, the game become a lot easier.

[RodHull]

引用自 Alek：

Shouldnt POE2 suppose to be more casual friendly because POE1 was to confusing for them? It feels like it got even worse for casuals

Am i wrong about it?

Sort of yes and no...

It's true one of their stated aims was to remove a lot of the bloat and frankly meme style 1 button zoom gameplay that now is part of POE1

But I don't think they ever intended to go for a fully casual game. This game is based around Ruthless mode in POE1 which is very much not casual friendly.

I think they are happy letting other games like D4 have the casual crowd, not because they have disdain for them or anything, I just think their desire has always been to have a spiritual successor to D2 and D1, which were also not casual friendly.

[Constant_K]

引用自 Takkik：

The campaign repeat because it miss 3 acts. Anyone read EA infos before buying a EA game? Don't need to look far to understand why people fail at early game.

I mean for EVERY.SINGLE.TOON. not just the act 3 repeat (though that's a slog right now too).

[damionjack]

引用自 ☣ h@nnibal ☣：

引用自 damionjack：

PoE2 is not the same as chess... But yes! If I wanted to learn chess I would ask someone to teach me. Start me off as a student/novice because thats what I would be. Whats wrong with that?

Then once I learned a bit I would try something a little harder. Then a little harder again. Thats what I am saying...

But atm GGG is skipping all that. They need to add in Easy/Standard/Hard. That would be progression.

Meh you paid to be a beta tester and are asking for features that will only arrive on at the finished polished product stage. Btw when the game actually launches it will be free. Next time do your research I guess before you buy?

You have a point I should have researched them. Lesson learned. I will use this experience for the future. I will refuse to invest in anything else GGG makes. I hope others like me do the same.

Also if they do make the changes I want to see I will consider coming back... But only then...

[damionjack]

引用自 damionjack：

引用自 ☣ h@nnibal ☣：

Meh you paid to be a beta tester and are asking for features that will only arrive on at the finished polished product stage. Btw when the game actually launches it will be free. Next time do your research I guess before you buy?

You have a point I should have researched them. Lesson learned. I will use this experience for the future. I will refuse to invest in anything else GGG makes. I hope others like me do the same.

Also if they do make the changes I want to see I will consider coming back... But only then...

Also being professional Game Devs I would think that GGG would know that casual gamers, such as myself, would want their game to start with Easy/Standard/Difficult modes already included even in EA...

[Actionhanz]

引用自 Alek：

I really have the feeling thats kinda true.

Normal Campaign is waaaaaaaaaay harder than cruel.
Some classes are nearly impossible to start with, like warrior.
And if a casual really beat the campain he faces the true nightmare, the Endgame.
Every little mistake is punished absolutly brutal. Map lost, Loot on the ground lost, exp lost and lot of time wasted....

Shouldnt POE2 suppose to be more casual friendly because POE1 was to confusing for them? It feels like it got even worse for casuals

Am i wrong about it?

Wanted to make fun of you but then i saw your profile pic.

A man of culture. I respect that.


Poe2 is in fact more casual than Poe1, the only real challenge is going to be your very first character in a new league. The first 3 Acts are probably the hardest part right now.

The endgame is not as hard as you describe. Losing a map might sound crushing when you only have 5 or 6. But im sitting here, going through t15-18 maps like butter while having 2 full stashtabs of maps, 25% of them are t14 and t15. I couldnt care less about the loss when i die, its more the EXP loss i care about.

So its really just a learning experience that will turn out to be worth. Enjoy the learning curve while it lasts cause eventually you will end up being bored in endgame sadly.

[Takkik]

引用自 damionjack：

Still struggled to beat the first boss of Act 2. Tried about 6 times before giving up. Only so many times I can smoosh my face into a wall before I give up afterall.

Failing 6 times and give up, modern gamer at their peak. If you fail 6 times and fail to see any progress, for the capaign boss, it's your fault, not the game. It's not D4, you have to adapt your build/gear and learn the patterns.

But 6 times... fail 20 and yeah, I'll understand your frustation.

[damionjack]

引用自 Takkik：

引用自 damionjack：

Still struggled to beat the first boss of Act 2. Tried about 6 times before giving up. Only so many times I can smoosh my face into a wall before I give up afterall.

Failing 6 times and give up, modern gamer at their peak. If you fail 6 times and fail to see any progress, for the capaign boss, it's your fault, not the game. It's not D4, you have to adapt your build/gear and learn the patterns.

But 6 times... fail 20 and yeah, I'll understand your frustation.

Hahahah! sorry mate but you dont get to decide my limits for me, just like I dont get to decide anything about you.

One time, when I was trying to kill the boss, he bugged out and kept resetting every time I damaged him... how it that my fault? The minions up on the ledge were shooting at me the whole time, yet I couldn't shoot back at them... how does that work?

Also this was right after the end of Act 1 Boss, which I wiped on a few times to... then farmed up extra gear. xp and skill gems... only to be slammed in the face by the next boss!

I saw the way things were going and that was enough for me to stop.

[jans_alter_ego]

引用自 damionjack：

引用自 Empukris：

They cant satisfy anyone, they choose one creative design and stick with it. If you want story mode arpg there are plenty others or poe1 story is very easy also due to power creep. Those 80% people enjoying the current design. Making those changes to people that eventually going to quit anyway and go back to D4 is the dumbest thing they can do. If i want another d4 i will just play d4 duh....

Exactly, they cant satisfy anyone.

Also I played D4. And D1, D2 and D3. I am not interested in them any longer. Blizzard is just bad and I wont give them anymore of my money.

I also played PoE1. And Titanquest. And Grimdawn And Torchlight.

Its not like I have 0 experience with this genre.

And yet this game is intolerable to me. Its too difficult. The learning curb is too steep. GGG needs to add in an Easy mode.

100% agree. I got stuck on one act boss or another on each and every class and have neither the time nor the frustration tolerance to just try over and over again. Also, people answering need to assume that the basics (level, gear, mechanics, build) are covered when we make these complaints. Being locked out of content I paid for sucks - and there's no tangible reason. An easy mode existing does not impact the sweatlords in any way and I will always be happy to grant that their e-peen is longer and girthier than mine. That's okay, I don't care. I just wanna play through the game. Don't think that's too much to ask for. And I'm really not nostalgic for the days when I forced my way through that Chupa Chups promo game with the ant ninja (?) or Golden flipping Axe or what have you.

[Xersin]

引用自 damionjack：

引用自 Cereal Guy：

I'm not being snarky when I say this: They don't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ care. They are aware many people will quit because of this. They are aware it's leaving money on the table. Again, they don't care.

Then have poor customer service skills. Why do you tolerate it? You're just enabling toxic behaviour. I gaurantee you, if the vast majority of their players base came into consensus and left enmasse... they would care, if only because no one would be giving them money to pay the bills and their whole studio would shut down as a result...

My point is, we the customers can MAKE them care!

A company doesn't have poor customer service skills when they ignore the Karens.

[Monjac]

引用自 Tenz：

Look GGG is a small indie company, you gotta give them more time to cook.

This is no longer true btw , the game sold 1m copies before the EA was even released and judging from the concurrent , it would have atleast sold several millions copies by now. ( Gamespy has estimated it has moved 7m copies )

That kind of sales don't make you an indie company anymore. You've got the money to expand bigger than that , hiring more talent and efficient staff to solve your issues.

So no, not really an excuse.