Game Over: How Influencers and Predatory Practices Are Tanking ARPGs

[Rob⛧Slayer]

You ever notice how folks are just letting their favorite game genres go down the toilet, all because of slick marketing scams? Free-to-play has turned into a codeword for "we're gonna drain your wallet dry," and a chunk of this mess falls on those YouTubers and Twitch streamers hawking shoddy game designs like snake oil salesmen.

Anyone who thinks game developers can't make a buck the old-fashioned way has been drinking the Kool-Aid, probably fed to them by some shady streamer or developer with a hidden agenda. It's obvious now that the defenders of these scammy models are neck-deep in the sunk cost fallacy, and they want to drag the rest of us into their quagmire. Instead, let's hold these developers, publishers, and influencers' feet to the fire for their deceit and borderline criminal antics.

Free-to-play games? Total con jobs. Games-as-a-service? All hype, no substance. These models are designed to mess with your head, putting the good stuff—like cosmetics and basic features—behind a paywall. They've warped how we see and play games, and in the low-rent world of free-to-play, you'll never truly get what's missing compared to a straightforward, honest sales model.

Remember when games actually gave you something worth your time? Earning cosmetics was a badge of honor, proof of your skill and dedication. Now, you can buy your way into looking like a big shot, making real achievements meaningless. Tencent and GGG have trashed the industry’s integrity with their shady tactics.

Even Diablo III managed to keep live service going without resorting to dirty tricks. They handed out seasonal cosmetics with the base game, each class getting unique rewards. Nowadays, games drip-feed you content and milk you for every penny.

Influencers like Darth Microtransaction, Raxxanterax, and Rhykker are some of the worst offenders. They've sold out for fame and sponsorships, betraying the community’s real interests and going easy on publishers. They're helping to sink the genre, focused more on personal gain than on preserving the soul of ARPGs.

Tencent and GGG are throwing money at YouTubers and Twitch influencers to push their sketchy models, grooming players into accepting their con games disguised as "fun."

In Path of Exile and ARPG circles, you've got people like Raxxanterax, Rhykker, and Darth Microtransactions pulling the strings. The OTK network, Tectone, Mizkif, and Asmongold are doing the same in the open-world action RPG arena. In FPS and action shooters, figures like NickMercs, TimtheTatman, and Dr. Disrespect are spreading the deceit.

Then you've got Hasan Piker slamming xQc, Trainwreck, and Adin Ross for promoting gambling, while he's pocketing Tencent cash to push their "free-to-play" scams. This trend of influencers selling out for Tencent's dirty money is wrecking the western gaming market.

The 'free-to-play' model is a con, pure and simple, playing on the sunk cost fallacy. Players keep dumping time and money into these games even as they get less and less out of them. Their emotional and financial investment makes it tough to walk away, even when the genre’s quality and integrity are shot.

Publishers and developers have perfected the art of audience manipulation, prioritizing marketing over real game development. We need to get back to honest gaming, where the focus is on enjoyment and player well-being, not squeezing every cent out of us. We must hold these influencers accountable and push for a gaming industry that respects players and the heart of our beloved genres.

A straight-up honest release would mean a full game launch, season passes included, and expansions every couple of years—none of these anti-consumer gimmicks that Tencent has polluted the industry with.

I almost caved and bought Diablo IV's expansion in the sale, and PoE 2 was tempting until I reminded myself there's no real reward in playing these games as they are now. We desperately need everyone on board to save the genre from Tencent’s clutches. The only way to do this is by spreading the word about what’s really going on.


Please read Salt Engineer's post where he provides an in-depth analysis of how Tencent's acquisition of various gaming companies, including GGG, has led to predatory monetization practices that prioritize profits over player experience. The post delves into Tencent's history and ethics, outlining how their influence has changed the gaming landscape, particularly in the ARPG genre. It also criticizes influencers who promote these deceptive models, drawing attention to the negative impact on the industry. By reading this, you'll gain a comprehensive understanding of the broader implications of corporate control in gaming and why it's crucial to support indie developers who prioritize genuine player enjoyment.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2694490/discussions/0/565867433751007187/

[Rob⛧Slayer]

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Ignoring the evolution of the genre and attempting to gaslight, deflect, and derail the discussion will only make you sound weird and won't benefit you in any positive way. Path of Exile 1/2 and Diablo IV represent a step backward from the progress made in between.

As an ARPG fan since the 90s, I'm passionate about preserving the genre's original, more rewarding aspects. We shouldn't praise or justify GGG or Tencent for mainstreaming mobile monetization models into PC gaming.

PC gamers once stood firmly against these models, advocating for traditional ones. However, aggressive marketing strategies, partnerships with influencers, and extensive advertising campaigns by gaming companies have normalized these monetization practices.

The "PC master race" has fallen, largely due to online fandoms transforming into cult-like followings. This irrational behavior mirrors the current political landscape, where individuals shield their favored politicians from accountability, captivated by their charisma.

There are glimmers of hope that players are finally waking up from the absurdity. You can almost see the despair in streamers' eyes as they slog through these games, while those attempting to plaster on a smile and force positivity are so transparently struggling that it’s almost comedic. No PC gamer in their right mind could claim that Path of Exile 1/2 and Diablo IV are genuine PC games. Let's be real—they're practically mobile games in disguise, laden with all the sneaky monetization schemes you'd expect from a mobile release.

Yes because deleting and reposting to bump your own thread isn't weird.

Are you going to avoid the topic as well? It seems like the number of people dodging it is growing. The best way to counter bad faith actors is by consistently presenting good faith arguments.

[AFC_HIGHBURY]

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

Yes because deleting and reposting to bump your own thread isn't weird.

Are you going to avoid the topic as well? It seems like the number of people dodging it is growing. The best way to counter bad faith actors is by consistently presenting good faith arguments.

I didn't avoid anything, just pointed out your antics are weird.

[Rob⛧Slayer]

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Are you going to avoid the topic as well? It seems like the number of people dodging it is growing. The best way to counter bad faith actors is by consistently presenting good faith arguments.

I didn't avoid anything, just pointed out your antics are weird.

If you can't engage with the topic and provide a decent counter-argument, then what's the point of participating in the forums? This is just going in circles.

[AFC_HIGHBURY]

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

I didn't avoid anything, just pointed out your antics are weird.

If you can't engage with the topic and provide a decent counter-argument, then what's the point of participating in the forums? This is just going in circles.

There is no talking to people like you, I don't like everything about the game, doesn't mean I'll then make a thread and bump it. After all you didn't answer my question in the other post. Only when it suits you though you want to discuss.

[AFC_HIGHBURY]

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Publicado originalmente por Detergent:

Who cares, seriously.
You miss the old days where everyone ran around in a green tinted leather cap and a generic looking Monarch Shield. Good for you, go play D2R.

Ignoring the evolution of the genre and attempting to gaslight, deflect, and derail the discussion will only make you sound weird and won't benefit you in any positive way. Path of Exile 1/2 and Diablo IV represent a step backward from the progress made in between.

As an ARPG fan since the 90s, I'm passionate about preserving the genre's original, more rewarding aspects. We shouldn't praise or justify GGG or Tencent for mainstreaming mobile monetization models into PC gaming.

PC gamers once stood firmly against these models, advocating for traditional ones. However, aggressive marketing strategies, partnerships with influencers, and extensive advertising campaigns by gaming companies have normalized these monetization practices.

The "PC master race" has fallen, largely due to online fandoms transforming into cult-like followings. This irrational behavior mirrors the current political landscape, where individuals shield their favored politicians from accountability, captivated by their charisma.

There are glimmers of hope that players are finally waking up from the absurdity. You can almost see the despair in streamers' eyes as they slog through these games, while those attempting to plaster on a smile and force positivity are so transparently struggling that it’s almost comedic. No PC gamer in their right mind could claim that Path of Exile 1/2 and Diablo IV are genuine PC games. Let's be real—they're practically mobile games in disguise, laden with all the sneaky monetization schemes you'd expect from a mobile release.

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

There is no talking to people like you, I don't like everything about the game, doesn't mean I'll then make a thread and bump it. After all you didn't answer my question in the other post. Only when it suits you though you want to discuss.

Either you engage and contribute to the discussion, or you'll be ignored. Resorting to insults just shows that you have no solid ground to stand on.

Oh no he's going to ignore me...what will I do.

[AFC_HIGHBURY]

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

Oh no he's going to ignore me...what will I do.

I rest my case.

But you didn't ignore me, you replied. Atleast stick to what you say

[DarK]

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

Oh no he's going to ignore me...what will I do.

I rest my case.

Please do.

[Detergent]

Publicado originalmente por DarK:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

I rest my case.

Please do.

One can dream.

[Rob⛧Slayer]

Publicado originalmente por Detergent:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

Blizzard used to lead the genre. Now, under Rod Fergusson, they offer players a sleazy redesign of the loot system that mirrors GGG's approach, where iconic and crafted gear, instead of looking unique, now appears as generic models. It's their way of pushing you towards their cosmetic store. Diablo IV, like Path of Exile, doesn't feature traditional set items like most ARPGs, as a conventional rewarding model would compete with its cosmetic store. This model strips away the excitement of iconic loot, eroding the sense of accomplishment and diminishing the overall depth of the genre.

Who cares, seriously.
You miss the old days where everyone ran around in a green tinted leather cap and a generic looking Monarch Shield. Good for you, go play D2R.

Ignoring the evolution of the genre and attempting to gaslight, deflect, and derail the discussion will only make you sound weird and won't benefit you in any positive way. Path of Exile 1/2 and Diablo IV represent a step backward from the progress made in between.

As an ARPG fan since the 90s, I'm passionate about preserving the genre's original, more rewarding aspects. We shouldn't praise or justify GGG or Tencent for mainstreaming mobile monetization models into PC gaming.

PC gamers once stood firmly against these models, advocating for traditional ones. However, aggressive marketing strategies, partnerships with influencers, and extensive advertising campaigns by gaming companies have normalized these monetization practices.

The "PC master race" has fallen, largely due to online fandoms transforming into cult-like followings. This irrational behavior mirrors the current political landscape, where individuals shield their favored politicians from accountability, captivated by their charisma.

There are glimmers of hope that players are finally waking up from the absurdity. You can almost see the despair in streamers' eyes as they slog through these games, while those attempting to plaster on a smile and force positivity are so transparently struggling that it’s almost comedic. No PC gamer in their right mind could claim that Path of Exile 1/2 and Diablo IV are genuine PC games. Let's be real—they're practically mobile games in disguise, laden with all the sneaky monetization schemes you'd expect from a mobile release.

Publicado originalmente por AFC_HIGHBURY:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

If you can't engage with the topic and provide a decent counter-argument, then what's the point of participating in the forums? This is just going in circles.

There is no talking to people like you, I don't like everything about the game, doesn't mean I'll then make a thread and bump it. After all you didn't answer my question in the other post. Only when it suits you though you want to discuss.

Either you engage and contribute to the discussion, or you'll be ignored. Resorting to insults just shows that you have no solid ground to stand on.

[bibudis]

Publicado originalmente por Hormesis:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

The genre desperately needs a break from influencers who promote bad game design and predatory monetization for publishers. None of them have ever truly addressed how far original games went in rewarding players compared to what we see today. ARPGs should never include a paid cosmetic store. How did we let this become acceptable? Cosmetics were always meant to be the bonus, the cherry on top, the reward for collecting set items and iconic loot. They were never meant to be exploited for extra cash. Somewhere along the way, the reward shifted from meaningful gameplay to a focus on profit, and cosmetics became the centerpiece. It’s been a slow, painful decline, and it’s heartbreaking to watch the genre stray so far from its roots.

consider that games have cost around $60 since ps1 was released back in the late 90's. that's three decades of inflation, and yet games have remained the same price.

Smarter people got imported the chip bro and never paid 60$ for a game!!!

[Sasheria]

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

If you can't engage with the topic and provide a decent counter-argument, then what's the point of participating in the forums? This is just going in circles.

The discussion is good. but the format/stage is not good. We are only players. You are trying to revitalize the better way of gaming/thinking but that only apply to businesses because if this stage (players) to make any affect, then my previous post of limited option comes into play.

You gave example of accountability in business and not "selling the soul" for money, but when it comes to money, people need it and want it to make their lives better. yes. Some indie game maker with better compass can make some money and some does not, but if you look at the game distribution, the named studios tend to have a better success in releasing game.

So from the player perspective we are limited in what we can do.
1. Play the game
2. not play the game
3. complain about the game

you can replace 1 and 2 with "pay/not buy" to x item within a game, but we are limited on what the customer can do. The best we can do is vote with our dollars (that was my points when combating bad practices)

while your points if trying to revitalize the morality of game development which is not a great platform on this forum. you would have a better chance in E3 than a specific forum for a specific game.

Hence, when we do these kinds of discussion, it is best to evaluate your audience and see what is possible or discussion vs just throwing it out there.

Note: the discussion is good, but it is not the right audience for it because it will not have any result unless you have propose solutions that the audience CAN parcipate (i.e. one of your example is "not sell the soul to make money" well as a player, that is not something we can do. my solution was not pay, pay less, or pay.

[Leon]

Publicado originalmente por Sasheria:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

If you can't engage with the topic and provide a decent counter-argument, then what's the point of participating in the forums? This is just going in circles.

The discussion is good. but the format/stage is not good. We are only players. You are trying to revitalize the better way of gaming/thinking but that only apply to businesses because if this stage (players) to make any affect, then my previous post of limited option comes into play.

You gave example of accountability in business and not "selling the soul" for money, but when it comes to money, people need it and want it to make their lives better. yes. Some indie game maker with better compass can make some money and some does not, but if you look at the game distribution, the named studios tend to have a better success in releasing game.

So from the player perspective we are limited in what we can do.
1. Play the game
2. not play the game
3. complain about the game

you can replace 1 and 2 with "pay/not buy" to x item within a game, but we are limited on what the customer can do. The best we can do is vote with our dollars (that was my points when combating bad practices)

while your points if trying to revitalize the morality of game development which is not a great platform on this forum. you would have a better chance in E3 than a specific forum for a specific game.

Hence, when we do these kinds of discussion, it is best to evaluate your audience and see what is possible or discussion vs just throwing it out there.

Note: the discussion is good, but it is not the right audience for it because it will not have any result unless you have propose solutions that the audience CAN parcipate (i.e. one of your example is "not sell the soul to make money" well as a player, that is not something we can do. my solution was not pay, pay less, or pay.

Problem is the % of people that moan or complain is so low 5-10%

90% of people just play it like it keep playing or they don't and play something else those 5-10% is such a small portion of the playerbase any game company knows its a minimal loss and expected even 4-50% in EA is nothing when they know once it goes ftp it will go back up again so its really pointless apart from people feel happy they get something off their chest but in reality its forgotten about quicker than a the reply to it was.

Generally people don't go on a forum to post about a game they don't like and dont play you just get those special few that have nothing better todo.

[Sasheria]

Publicado originalmente por Leon:

Problem is the % of people that moan or complain is so low 5-10%

90% of people just play it like it keep playing or they don't and play something else those 5-10% is such a small portion of the playerbase any game company knows its a minimal loss and expected even 4-50% in EA is nothing when they know once it goes ftp it will go back up again so its really pointless apart from people feel happy they get something off their chest but in reality its forgotten about quicker than a the reply to it was.

Generally people don't go on a forum to post about a game they don't like and dont play you just get those special few that have nothing better todo.

Correct :)
That is why I answer a while back that while it is great to get the brain thinking, the issue is that this is not the right audience to make a change (i.e. this forum) even if a developer comes in here, it is only 1 company. So rob will have a higher success talking to companies and developers (make decisions and development) vs a lot of players who has limited power (can vote via dollars)

[geofruck]

Totally spot on. Glad to see someone else speaking the truth. If people think this is actually a real ARPG game, it's no wonder why the quality of games in general have taken such a huge downward turn.

Most people really don't have any idea how much psychological manipulation is taking place against them in today's world. This game is a prime example of how effective it is.

Thank goodness for actual, passionate developers like 11th Hour and Crate, and hopefully Grimlore/THQ will deliver with TQ2.

I hope people get wiser and start to see through the illusions, and stop supporting them. Unfortunately, I'm skeptical about whether that will happen.

Again, great post.

[Rob⛧Slayer]

Publicado originalmente por Sasheria:

Publicado originalmente por Rob⛧Pentakill:

If you can't engage with the topic and provide a decent counter-argument, then what's the point of participating in the forums? This is just going in circles.

The discussion is good. but the format/stage is not good. We are only players. You are trying to revitalize the better way of gaming/thinking but that only apply to businesses because if this stage (players) to make any affect, then my previous post of limited option comes into play.

You gave example of accountability in business and not "selling the soul" for money, but when it comes to money, people need it and want it to make their lives better. yes. Some indie game maker with better compass can make some money and some does not, but if you look at the game distribution, the named studios tend to have a better success in releasing game.

So from the player perspective we are limited in what we can do.
1. Play the game
2. not play the game
3. complain about the game

you can replace 1 and 2 with "pay/not buy" to x item within a game, but we are limited on what the customer can do. The best we can do is vote with our dollars (that was my points when combating bad practices)

while your points if trying to revitalize the morality of game development which is not a great platform on this forum. you would have a better chance in E3 than a specific forum for a specific game.

Hence, when we do these kinds of discussion, it is best to evaluate your audience and see what is possible or discussion vs just throwing it out there.

Note: the discussion is good, but it is not the right audience for it because it will not have any result unless you have propose solutions that the audience CAN parcipate (i.e. one of your example is "not sell the soul to make money" well as a player, that is not something we can do. my solution was not pay, pay less, or pay.

The current state of the genre isn't making anyone's lives better; it's likely making them less enjoyable. When the core experience that has always brought joy to players is stripped away and locked behind paywalls, along with basic features, it significantly diminishes the overall enjoyment. No one can honestly say that players are happier with PC games adopting these deceptive mobile game models.

The PC Master Race may have already fallen to Tencent and Activision Blizzard's mass marketing and forced adoption of these models, but there is hope in Steam's community. When this community starts to see cracks in the PC market, they rise up, and it is impossible to ignore Tencent's negative impact on the genre and the industry as a whole.

Publicado originalmente por Leon:

Publicado originalmente por Sasheria:

The discussion is good. but the format/stage is not good. We are only players. You are trying to revitalize the better way of gaming/thinking but that only apply to businesses because if this stage (players) to make any affect, then my previous post of limited option comes into play.

You gave example of accountability in business and not "selling the soul" for money, but when it comes to money, people need it and want it to make their lives better. yes. Some indie game maker with better compass can make some money and some does not, but if you look at the game distribution, the named studios tend to have a better success in releasing game.

So from the player perspective we are limited in what we can do.
1. Play the game
2. not play the game
3. complain about the game

you can replace 1 and 2 with "pay/not buy" to x item within a game, but we are limited on what the customer can do. The best we can do is vote with our dollars (that was my points when combating bad practices)

while your points if trying to revitalize the morality of game development which is not a great platform on this forum. you would have a better chance in E3 than a specific forum for a specific game.

Hence, when we do these kinds of discussion, it is best to evaluate your audience and see what is possible or discussion vs just throwing it out there.

Note: the discussion is good, but it is not the right audience for it because it will not have any result unless you have propose solutions that the audience CAN parcipate (i.e. one of your example is "not sell the soul to make money" well as a player, that is not something we can do. my solution was not pay, pay less, or pay.

Problem is the % of people that moan or complain is so low 5-10%

90% of people just play it like it keep playing or they don't and play something else those 5-10% is such a small portion of the playerbase any game company knows its a minimal loss and expected even 4-50% in EA is nothing when they know once it goes ftp it will go back up again so its really pointless apart from people feel happy they get something off their chest but in reality its forgotten about quicker than a the reply to it was.

Generally people don't go on a forum to post about a game they don't like and dont play you just get those special few that have nothing better todo.

Most of the time, when people use statistics like '90% of the time,' they are not entirely accurate.

Most players in Path of Exile 2 won't clock over 100 hours, and it generally takes around 200 hours to truly open up an ARPG. These players, who have little to no experience playing endgame, are usually happy because they fit into the casual demographic and bought the game because it was trending. I don't believe there is much of a return base for this demographic.

Beyond the 200-hour mark, most long-term players and genre veterans can determine if the game is genuinely worth their time. From what I've seen, players with over 200-300 hours tend to be dissatisfied with the endgame. This dissatisfaction arises when basic features and the most rewarding aspects of a game are locked behind a paywall.

Taking all that into consideration, the only people really posting on the threads are hardcore players who are split 50/50 on how they feel about the game.

Publicado originalmente por geofruck:

Totally spot on. Glad to see someone else speaking the truth. If people think this is actually a real ARPG game, it's no wonder why the quality of games in general have taken such a huge downward turn.

Most people really don't have any idea how much psychological manipulation is taking place against them in today's world. This game is a prime example of how effective it is.

Thank goodness for actual, passionate developers like 11th Hour and Crate, and hopefully Grimlore/THQ will deliver with TQ2.

I hope people get wiser and start to see through the illusions, and stop supporting them. Unfortunately, I'm skeptical about whether that will happen.

Again, great post.

I strongly encourage more people like you to write posts. The more voices we have speaking out, the better. Thank you for your response.