You are in the coping phase, this game is about to implode

[Clyan]

I knew from the very first moment when i heard about the dodge roll mechanic that this arpg would be a dissapointing fail. Dodge roll is a fundamental gameplay element as it determines the entire combat loop.
Combat must be designed around it or it would be utterly broken.

So here we are. In order to justify dodge they had to remove all significantly impactful movement skills. Now your build consists only of a variaty of damage skills and weak auras, because why would you get a strong aura if you can just dodge nonstop?

What is combat in PoE2?
Methotical use of abilities, kiting and dodgeing hitboxes.
But it seems the devs didn't really understand where they were going: Melee compared to ranged feels aweful and unbalanced. If dodge roll had iframes this wouldn't be an issue, but they specifically didn't want this because it would make ranged builds even more easy to play. Just try it. With a ranged build you can kill ANY boss on first try unless they call in a huge amount of adds.

They also removed life increases from the passive tree because again... you can just dodge roll.
The passive tree in general has been watered down in order to maintain low damage because if you could kill anything in a few hits dodgeing wouldn't be necessary anymore.

Ascendancies have been altered into sanctum runs, and you know why. Yes, exactly. Dodge roll.

Different terrain levels are gone, of course, because without movement skills that can travers them you dont want them in your game.

Basic defenses (like armor, ES and evasion) have remained in the game, yet they exist only for trash mobs. Evasion is an outlier right now as it is utterly op - and i garantuee it will be nerfed into the ground once the game comes out if not earlier.

Bosses are spongy because the devs want you to utilize dodge. So they introduced beefy bosses with mechanics that you HAVE to dodge or otherwise will obliterate you.
You complain about their health pool and how long it takes to kill them, but this isn't a mistake. It is on purpose. And it is here to stay.

If you think this game is difficult you are either not used to this mechanic from other games (which i dont think i have to mention by name, you heard of them, you know them) or you're just another coper trying to imply this will go away.
But it won't.
This game isn't difficult at all. It just relies on you hitting space at the right moment rolling into the right direction, and that is exactly the opposite of what arpgs should be. Unless you're an esoteric new age person thinking genres are non-binary and can literally be anything.

Arpgs are defined by your ability to become an unstoppable force beyond reality that destroys entire screens of enemies and godlike bosses in one hit. Period.

It is obvious what the leagues in this game will look like. Just look at D4 and you know it. New items that supposedly make you stronger but effectively are just cheasy gizmos. Because dodge must stay relevant.

Yes, dodge roll - Lost ark has it. D4 has it. Two arpgs that suffer from terrible combat loop and felt boring and repetitive and therefor couldn't survive the harsh landscape of the gameing market.

Is there anything good about this game then?
Yes. It looks incredible, it is a piece of art. Yes. GGG made the right call and didn't make the mistake of jumping on the mmo train with open world maps. Yes, the music and voiceacting is still above average. Yes, it is more or less in a good and polished state.

So why do i believe PoE2 will implode?
Because it wants to be an arpgs, but it isn't. It alienates its existing community and won't be able to draw in players for long as it demands too much time without any significant improvement to your build as dodge roll will always be at the center of everything. In other words: It isn't fun. No matter how many leagues and changes they introduce, unless dodge roll vanishes, this game cannot survive.

You might want to ask: Why does dodge roll work in souls like games?
Because that genre is defined by other metrics and dodge rolling does not restrict but enhance it.

It's a shame really, but i don't see this game being a new bastion against time like PoE1. I give it max 1 year until it reaches D4 status.

Have a nice one

[undefined]

Agreed. I was over dodge rolling like 10 years ago. Lost interest when I saw it was in PoE2. It's just a cheesy mechanic and always has been.

Oh well, lots of other games to play!

[Lu2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von just.dont.do.it:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Archiemedis:

I dislike the melee combat in PoE 1 and was hoping for better in part 2.

Then why are you complaining? The melee combat is light years ahead of PoE1, and any other modern ARPG, frankly.

are you serious . did you played nioh ?

[Mike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lu2:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von just.dont.do.it:

Then why are you complaining? The melee combat is light years ahead of PoE1, and any other modern ARPG, frankly.

are you serious . did you played nioh ?

Seriously this. Nioh 2 has the depth of aRPGs builds/loot and the best combat in the genre, light years ahead of any souls game that for sure. I personally would consider Nioh 1-2, and Strangers of Paradise some of the deepest 3rd person aRPGs on the market.

POE 2's combat is super shallow in comparison to Nioh's.

[Rincewind]

TLDR: OP does not like dodge. Not one bit. In fact he really hates dodge rolls.


I use blink with %cd reductions support gems. Combined with 30% ms you are ZOOOOOOMING

[Lu2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mike:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lu2:

are you serious . did you played nioh ?

Seriously this. Nioh 2 has the depth of aRPGs builds/loot and the best combat in the genre, light years ahead of any souls game that for sure. I personally would consider Nioh 1-2, and Strangers of Paradise some of the deepest 3rd person aRPGs on the market.

POE 2's combat is super shallow in comparison to Nioh's.

yea but item managment is crap in stranger of paradise if you minmaxing multiple classes in end game . its realy weird game but combat potencial is insane

[Lord Bullingdon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mike:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lu2:

are you serious . did you played nioh ?

Seriously this. Nioh 2 has the depth of aRPGs builds/loot and the best combat in the genre, light years ahead of any souls game that for sure. I personally would consider Nioh 1-2, and Strangers of Paradise some of the deepest 3rd person aRPGs on the market.

POE 2's combat is super shallow in comparison to Nioh's.

I keep hearing Nioh is ridiculous for making builds. You find that to be true? Maybe I'll grab it at some point.

[donut32]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lord Bullingdon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mike:

Seriously this. Nioh 2 has the depth of aRPGs builds/loot and the best combat in the genre, light years ahead of any souls game that for sure. I personally would consider Nioh 1-2, and Strangers of Paradise some of the deepest 3rd person aRPGs on the market.

POE 2's combat is super shallow in comparison to Nioh's.

I keep hearing Nioh is ridiculous for making builds. You find that to be true? Maybe I'll grab it at some point.

I haven't played nioh but those guys made strangers of paradise and yes it has some extreme depth in builds. Depth that actually makes sense as well. Not just a pointless slop of noise like the poe skill boards

[Mike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lord Bullingdon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mike:

Seriously this. Nioh 2 has the depth of aRPGs builds/loot and the best combat in the genre, light years ahead of any souls game that for sure. I personally would consider Nioh 1-2, and Strangers of Paradise some of the deepest 3rd person aRPGs on the market.

POE 2's combat is super shallow in comparison to Nioh's.

I keep hearing Nioh is ridiculous for making builds. You find that to be true? Maybe I'll grab it at some point.

Nioh 2 has TONS of builds and its endgame is very in-depth, especially for a single player style game. Nioh 2 has 11 weapon classes each with FULL skill trees to unlock new skills/passives, there are 3 ranged weapon. The gear is just like any other aRPG with stats that can be used to create crazy builds (early game its not as important). Also the combat is bar none some of the best in the industry, with so much mechanical depth that its insane.

For aRPG fans I would also recommend Strangers of Paradise, as this game is like Nioh 2 but it has an even bigger focus on builds, gear stats, class synergies,...etc (that game has like 35 classes to mix and match through it s dual class system). This game however is much harder in terms of progressing because it is quite complex when you start putting builds together, and endgame progression can easily be halted if your build is lacking in anyway.

Many people don't agree but these 2 games are just as much aRPGs as POE2 is, but the combat is 100 times better, more skill based, and the builds are just as indepth. Some people have issues with how much loot drops in these games and how little, but there is a simple loot filter and if you are use to aRPGs you are use to seeing what is worth keeping and what is not.

[Lu2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mike:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lord Bullingdon:

I keep hearing Nioh is ridiculous for making builds. You find that to be true? Maybe I'll grab it at some point.

Nioh 2 has TONS of builds and its endgame is very in-depth, especially for a single player style game. Nioh 2 has 11 weapon classes each with FULL skill trees to unlock new skills/passives, there are 3 ranged weapon. The gear is just like any other aRPG with stats that can be used to create crazy builds (early game its not as important). Also the combat is bar none some of the best in the industry, with so much mechanical depth that its insane.

For aRPG fans I would also recommend Strangers of Paradise, as this game is like Nioh 2 but it has an even bigger focus on builds, gear stats, class synergies,...etc (that game has like 35 classes to mix and match through it s dual class system). This game however is much harder in terms of progressing because it is quite complex when you start putting builds together, and endgame progression can easily be halted if your build is lacking in anyway.

Many people don't agree but these 2 games are just as much aRPGs as POE2 is, but the combat is 100 times better, more skill based, and the builds are just as indepth. Some people have issues with how much loot drops in these games and how little, but there is a simple loot filter and if you are use to aRPGs you are use to seeing what is worth keeping and what is not.

its more like ninja gaiden black when it comes to actual combat mechanics if you mastered game , yor level ,stats build doesnt matter . you just dominate enemy ki and anhiliate them with combos when you break ki

its trully insane how many stuff you can use in stranger of paradise too . i think its easier then nioh until you reach deathmachine which is endgame

stranger of paradise also offer asist mode which is basicaly cheat mode

[Mike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lu2:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mike:

Nioh 2 has TONS of builds and its endgame is very in-depth, especially for a single player style game. Nioh 2 has 11 weapon classes each with FULL skill trees to unlock new skills/passives, there are 3 ranged weapon. The gear is just like any other aRPG with stats that can be used to create crazy builds (early game its not as important). Also the combat is bar none some of the best in the industry, with so much mechanical depth that its insane.

For aRPG fans I would also recommend Strangers of Paradise, as this game is like Nioh 2 but it has an even bigger focus on builds, gear stats, class synergies,...etc (that game has like 35 classes to mix and match through it s dual class system). This game however is much harder in terms of progressing because it is quite complex when you start putting builds together, and endgame progression can easily be halted if your build is lacking in anyway.

Many people don't agree but these 2 games are just as much aRPGs as POE2 is, but the combat is 100 times better, more skill based, and the builds are just as indepth. Some people have issues with how much loot drops in these games and how little, but there is a simple loot filter and if you are use to aRPGs you are use to seeing what is worth keeping and what is not.

irts more like ninja gaiden black when it comes to actual combat mechanics if you master game stats , power doesnt matter . you just dominate enemy ki . you become boss

There is some truth to that, but there is enough build diversity in the skill tree and weapon classes alone, that even if stats are not as game changing as they could be there is still a ton of build variety in Nioh 2.

If you want deep combat systems layered on top of deep RPG/stats systems then Strangers of Paradise is that game. SoP is Nioh except for those who really like tinkering with builds and where stats, gear, class levels,..etc are VERY important, so much so that if you don't understand then you will hit hard road blocks in the content.

Strangers of Paradise actually has some of the most impressive build diversity I have ever seen in a 3rd person action RPG, I mean having 35 classes (with the DLCs), dual class system so the combinations are insane, 10 weapon classes with customizable weapon skills, 30+ command abilities (can equip 4), each weapon class has god knows how many weapon abilities that can roll on weapons, customizable weapon combos, decent itemization that has cool stats you want to build around, and to top it off the end game is pretty good with tons of hard content to work towards.

Don't be confused by the FF title as SoP is pretty insane in terms of the content, RPG depth, combat systems,....etc.

[Necropants]

Okay banned guy.

[RealReality]

Sounds like OP just bad at game tbh. Go play POE1 if its so good.

[Lu2]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mike:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lu2:

irts more like ninja gaiden black when it comes to actual combat mechanics if you master game stats , power doesnt matter . you just dominate enemy ki . you become boss

There is some truth to that, but there is enough build diversity in the skill tree and weapon classes alone, that even if stats are not as game changing as they could be there is still a ton of build variety in Nioh 2.

If you want deep combat systems layered on top of deep RPG/stats systems then Strangers of Paradise is that game. SoP is Nioh except for those who really like tinkering with builds and where stats, gear, class levels,..etc are VERY important, so much so that if you don't understand then you will hit hard road blocks in the content.

Strangers of Paradise actually has some of the most impressive build diversity I have ever seen in a 3rd person action RPG, I mean having 35 classes (with the DLCs), dual class system so the combinations are insane, 10 weapon classes with customizable weapon skills, 30+ command abilities (can equip 4), each weapon class has god knows how many weapon abilities that can roll on weapons, customizable weapon combos, decent itemization that has cool stats you want to build around, and to top it off the end game is pretty good with tons of hard content to work towards.

Don't be confused by the FF title as SoP is pretty insane in terms of the content, RPG depth, combat systems,....etc.

knowledege of nioh combat mechanics helps a lot . yes i ended up using monk power up then switching to blue mage with gun and spaming boss skills . its realy weird game but i like it . final fantasy fanservice is just extra . its not casual game at all . i took it as cult classic at this point

[Mike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lu2:

knowledege of nioh combat mechanics helps a lot . yes i ended up using monk power up then switching to blue mage with gun and spaming boss skills . its realy weird game but i like it . final fantasy fanservice is just extra . its not casual game at all . i took it as cult classic at this point

I agree its a strange combination of systems (in a good way) and a crazy amount of depth that is not casual friendly at all, that is why I love that game so much lol.

I would love for a game similar to it being done with a bigger budget but we were lucky we got that game given how Square Enix treats its FF IP.

[Uneazy]

revolutionary new gameplay mechanic: hold spacebar

some of the bosses in this game are OKAY wherein you have to learn some basic mechanics to survive, then you have garbage like the queen of filth where the game just fills your screen with nonsense AND has undodgeable attacks that vacuum you into range even if your spacebar is destroyed in the process, so your only option is to run around the game farming nonsensical gear 20 levels below you so you can just tank undeveloped bosses, this is all of course after you spend your chineseBux to buy more stash spaces to hold all the pointless gear you need to get to the endgame, which is, you guessed it: farming pointless gear with +1 stats over the last piece. That is until a week later when your entire setup is rendered useless and you have to google how you should be playing the flavor of the month