Thank you Jonathan - crybabies & streamer lovers - read carefully.

[Grishark]

At the Start

I want to make sure everybody understands that I know the game has issues. A few decimal balancing problems here and there, bugs, and atrocious server stability.

That said, I'm taking one main point from yesterday's interview—the game will stay true to its vision. Now there's loads of players crying, calling for Jonathan to be fired, yada yada yada. Quite amusing.

Yesterday's interview could've been way more interesting if done by a competent player, not Ziz. You guys need to understand—when you watch streamers, you focus on their builds, not how they actually play. And how do they play? One click through a map. Something tougher shows up and they're absolutely defenseless. I've met players who've never created a single video in their life who are better in every aspect of the game than these so-called "PoE pros." They're absolute zeros (not talking about you Rax—I really like your approach), especially in PoE2 (which ultimately is a different game) and it's so funny you treat them like Gods. Where would you be without them? What point to take, how to understand the changes - what is this game all about in the first place? :)

The funniest part of this whiny interview was when Ziz mentioned having issues with his defenses and Mark said he'd take his character and check it himself. Ziz mentioned he'd send a snapshot, which was followed by Mark explaining they would literally play his character. The look on Ziz's face was freaking amazing. He went all defensive saying stuff like "Ooohh, yeah, yeah well, yeah, the life regen now makes a massive difference—it's BEFORE I had massive issues." Yeah, let's drop the general statement and get buffed all over the place :) You don't catch these subtle things because your mind is already made up.

I also can’t even begin to count how many levels of stupidity Ziz’s statement reached—claiming he has no money because he spent most of it gambling.

Jonathan said they tested multiple gameplay styles while balancing gold, but didn’t anticipate people just blowing their entire stash on treasure chests. So what now? We’re supposed to give players more gold because Ziz willingly burned his on slot machines?

Come on.

He also dropped the classic “a lot of people do that” line. He reminds me of that one annoying client who never knows what they actually want—always claiming “a lot of people” are having problems, but can’t give a number, a source, anything. Who’s he talking about? His streaming friends? His Twitch chat? Completely unprepared for any kind of serious conversation.

These aren’t his pals—they’re developers and business owners. And watching him try to speak for the whole community like that? It’s hilarious on so many levels.

Now, the main issue here—apart from the obvious problems with HP, speed, etc. that have already been addressed to some extent—is something that more of the community repeats like a mantra: This is not PoE 1. It never will be (thank God). It will be harder (despite some guy asking to rework the entire "Molten Boss battle" because he can't beat it), it will be slower (despite the guy who allegedly has 4k hours in PoE1 claiming the PoE2 campaign is too hard), and ultimately—it may not be for you.

You don't get it. We're not defending GGG. We know about Tencent, we don't expect fair monetization in the future, we don't expect players to be valued over coin. It's simple business—they need to make money (now in China's hands more than ever), but we enjoy the game in its "current state" (again, putting aside stuff they're working on).

You're the problem, because ultimately you might not be the audience for this product.

I know Jonathan mentioned they don't target a specific audience, but clearly if you're not enjoying the vision of this title—it's not for you.

You can't even imagine how glad I am they mentioned the game will stay this way, as I only picked it up expecting exactly this. And before you pull your crystal ball out of your backpack and start saying the game will die (or some of you claim it already is dead)—find a wall, take a few steps back, bend over and start running pretty fast. The hit might help a little. If you still don't understand that a clear vision without crybabies like you will actually bring in a different audience, then you're lost.

Peace and love.

[Banana]

Amen, as someone like me who argued with the whole world constantly (and i always right at the end), i know this - most people dont understand how smart people mind's work, when smart people do something, they are already 3-5 steps ahead, which most people dont get it - since all they see is now now now. So what important is, you have clear vision, you stand firm, and it will attract similar people to appreciate you, there will be a lot of people against you - but doesnt matter, as long as you have clear head whats future looks like in your vision, you will be succeed.
in fact people dont get it that POE2 starting already attract many gamers, and the game counts become lower and lower once there are more and more OP builds appear.
I got few friends, they keep playing op build, and once they reach that level, they play a lot less, because they feel they are at its peak and feel bored. And me who never play meta build, keep on playing solo and try different builds, failed, learn, and failed again, and learn more, and success, thats why i play this game for so many hours and i appreciate this game and dev.
People who love gaming would understand that challenging, creative and fun game are hard to come by, as now a day most of the games just try to please non gamers (you get what i meant), so they will keep on playing.

[SmichaS]

Well then good luck to the 100 people that are the audience for THAT.

[jautja]

It doesn't have to be POE1 I've never played POE1. I'm not comparing it because I don't have anything to compare it to, I haven't played the first part.
But emotions on this one exactly formed (passed the company at launch and passed now).
It is NOT interesting to play.
From the third act the game is stifling.
There is no loot in the game.
No reward
Crafting is crooked
Stones are not inserted as desired, no flexibility.

The game has good graphics, bosses and story. But the balance and loot is just terrible.

The worst part is that I watched interviews and this and old ones.
In the interview he says one thing and in the game I played everything is not so, everything is different. It's like he's not talking about this game, he's talking about the one in his head.
And that's always been the case.

[Grishark]

That said, the game has started attracting a _different_ audience as well. While some ask not to compare Path of Exile 2 to FromSoftware titles, the comparison is actually quite fair and will become even more relevant after the changes with 'speedy mob packs.' No one suggests it should be exactly like Elden Ring or Dark Souls, but from the beginning, this was indeed the vision. This reminds me of No Rest for the Wicked—people were absolutely hyped for that type of gameplay. The reason they're not as enthusiastic about PoE2 is because of the PoE1 legacy.

You can see this struggle in development as well. The vision is there, but some mechanics remain very PoE1-like, which explains why T10+ maps are so challenging. Nevertheless, changes are coming, and I believe the GGG team is learning alongside us. Ultimately, this is a different title, and they're adapting their approach with each passing day. Only good things will come from that.

Originally posted by SmichaS:

Well then good luck to the 100 people that are the audience for THAT.

Please read the whole post, especially the part about the wall. Cheers.

Originally posted by jautja:

It doesn't have to be POE1 I've never played POE1. I'm not comparing it because I don't have anything to compare it to, I haven't played the first part.
But emotions on this one exactly formed (passed the company at launch and passed now).
It is NOT interesting to play.
From the third act the game is stifling.
There is no loot in the game.
No reward
Crafting is crooked
Stones are not inserted as desired, no flexibility.

The game has good graphics, bosses and story. But the balance and loot is just terrible.

The worst part is that I watched interviews and this and old ones.
In the interview he says one thing and in the game I played everything is not so, everything is different. It's like he's not talking about this game, he's talking about the one in his head.
And that's always been the case.

I generally disagree, but I saw Ziz complaining that he only received a few good drops throughout the entire campaign. Mark mentioned he would look into this issue. We can exchange numbers with each other here, but I'm not sure there's much point to it. I personally received 3 legendary items through Act 3 and countless good items. I was also able to significantly upgrade my equipment through proper usage of orbs. Not once did I feel underequipped.

So, I can confidently say that the 'no loot & no reward' complaint can potentially be scrapped from the list entirely. It may vary by player, but just look at the in-game chat—people are generally happy with what they're getting! The 'no loot & no reward' complaints seem to exist mainly on the Steam forum from what I've seen.

[Wisak]

I preffer this approach to PoE. I'm glad there is more complexity and a slower pace. Might be a bit too slow at the moment, but I think that tweaking the loot drops would already make a huge difference. I'm a huge fan of Souls games and this feels like the ARPG approach to those, which is great. Patience and work go a long way.

I hope they stick to the vision, but also try to understand that just because they don't see a problem, doesn't mean it isn't there. (This mainly goes for Johnathan being surprised some people weren't getting any good loot)

[Grishark]

Originally posted by Wisak:

I preffer this approach to PoE. I'm glad there is more complexity and a slower pace. Might be a bit too slow at the moment, but I think that tweaking the loot drops would already make a huge difference. I'm a huge fan of Souls games and this feels like the ARPG approach to those, which is great. Patience and work go a long way.

I hope they stick to the vision, but also try to understand that just because they don't see a problem, doesn't mean it isn't there. (This mainly goes for Johnathan being surprised some people weren't getting any good loot)

Really well said—that's exactly my point. GGG needs to be very careful not to overreact now. Listening to Ziz yesterday, he seemingly wants everything at once: masteries, bigger defense, better loot, less HP on mobs, stronger attacks, faster characters. Honestly, these players addicted to the dopamine shots they were getting in PoE1 are the worst. Literally clicking once on the map, using NeverSink to highlight items with a massive WHOOSH or OOOOOM sound, collecting, and moving on to the next.

Yeah, they definitely need to change the game.

[Banana]

Originally posted by Grishark:

Originally posted by Wisak:

I preffer this approach to PoE. I'm glad there is more complexity and a slower pace. Might be a bit too slow at the moment, but I think that tweaking the loot drops would already make a huge difference. I'm a huge fan of Souls games and this feels like the ARPG approach to those, which is great. Patience and work go a long way.

I hope they stick to the vision, but also try to understand that just because they don't see a problem, doesn't mean it isn't there. (This mainly goes for Johnathan being surprised some people weren't getting any good loot)

Really well said—that's exactly my point. GGG needs to be very careful not to overreact now. Listening to Ziz yesterday, he seemingly wants everything at once: masteries, bigger defense, better loot, less HP on mobs, stronger attacks, faster characters. Honestly, these players addicted to the dopamine shots they were getting in PoE1 are the worst. Literally clicking once on the map, using NeverSink to highlight items with a massive WHOOSH or OOOOOM sound, collecting, and moving on to the next.

Yeah, they definitely need to change the game.

Honestly one thing i predicted really wrong is about these youtuber and streamers, i thought they will welcome more nerf and build variety, because more challenging game means more tutorials and make more money from video, turn out its not... apparently most of them just noobs gamers want flashy wooshy delete whole screen bang bang build that no better than other noobs gamers.

[Wykydtron]

or you know just admit game suck right now and VAST MAJORITY of players doesn't like "vision".
For me its clear there is no vision at all and no one in GGG played poe2 or any game arpg before.
You mentioned rest for the wicked, guess what, it flopped, but not only that it HAD loot, IT HAD rewards for defeating bosses, it had decent maps and yet it failed because guess what? people dont want every game to be elder ring garbage copy. Whats next stamina so we cannot spam attacks? ability to swing weapon from right to left like in elden ring as only attacks and useless skills made for pvp meme?

Just face it, people hate the vision because vison is to make poe2 as unfun as possible.

Maps are garbage, still no only real solution (back to drawing board) and GGG still thinks there is no issue, ofc its players that are issue for them
There is no loot, no gear, no currency - but ofc that is vision, im in act3 cruel using act1 gear BECAUSE NOTHING BETTER DROPPED and few currency i used rolled light radius and lower requirements
Mobs are still sponges and and hit like nuke, my best geared as it can be with what i got huntress gets one tapped by pretty much everything and i survive only because i made 1button build that knocksbacks entire screen so only rangers can hit me
Bosses can one tap almost any character but screen is so cluttered its impossible to avoid everything in first place
0.2 is step back in every way to already not so good 0.1

I find much more issue with people that prise and gulp every garbage thrown by devs and treat devs like some gods. I wonder why devs refuse to play campaign live? oh wait they dont know how to play it, last time we had admin leaks we seen they test game with 200% loot drop and other admin hacks.

PS. i dont watch any streamers and dont care about any of them, they are cancer and no game should cater to them but that dosnt mean they are automatically wrong.

[Grishark]

Originally posted by Banana:

Originally posted by Grishark:

Really well said—that's exactly my point. GGG needs to be very careful not to overreact now. Listening to Ziz yesterday, he seemingly wants everything at once: masteries, bigger defense, better loot, less HP on mobs, stronger attacks, faster characters. Honestly, these players addicted to the dopamine shots they were getting in PoE1 are the worst. Literally clicking once on the map, using NeverSink to highlight items with a massive WHOOSH or OOOOOM sound, collecting, and moving on to the next.

Yeah, they definitely need to change the game.

Honestly one thing i predicted really wrong is about these youtuber and streamers, i thought they will welcome more nerf and build variety, because more challenging game means more tutorials and make more money from video, turn out its not... apparently most of them just noobs gamers want flashy wooshy delete whole screen bang bang build that no better than other noobs gamers.

Valid, but naive—and I was in the same place not so long ago before I actually watched how they play. I literally spent a few hours watching their videos. It's atrocious. Who even wants to watch this and what for? There's no value in it, unless they break the build and can finally play properly. I'll always refer to my favorite example, ds_lily, who decided to run around the map, aggro every mob, stand in one place for 5 seconds, die, and then say 'this game has some issues.' Come on.

[Dan]

At the end of the day, this is not a game for everyone. It's a niche title with a niche audience.

[Banana]

Originally posted by Grishark:

Originally posted by Banana:

Honestly one thing i predicted really wrong is about these youtuber and streamers, i thought they will welcome more nerf and build variety, because more challenging game means more tutorials and make more money from video, turn out its not... apparently most of them just noobs gamers want flashy wooshy delete whole screen bang bang build that no better than other noobs gamers.

Valid, but naive—and I was in the same place not so long ago before I actually watched how they play. I literally spent a few hours watching their videos. It's atrocious. Who even wants to watch this and what for? There's no value in it, unless they break the build and can finally play properly. I'll always refer to my favorite example, ds_lily, who decided to run around the map, aggro every mob, stand in one place for 5 seconds, die, and then say 'this game has some issues.' Come on.

I never watch any of them play actually, all i know is everyone copy their build, and i just want to go in the game blind and learn everything myself. My friend said why dont i become game youtuber (they always come to ask my advise), i said because i never play meta op flashy build, my youtube wont attract any gamers, lol
Actually i also found that some youtuber give solid information of this game dont have much audiences, i guess people just no interest to learn anything.

[Grishark]

Originally posted by Wykydtron:

or you know just admit game suck right now and VAST MAJORITY of players doesn't like "vision".
For me its clear there is no vision at all and no one in GGG played poe2 or any game arpg before.
You mentioned rest for the wicked, guess what, it flopped, but not only that it HAD loot, IT HAD rewards for defeating bosses, it had decent maps and yet it failed because guess what? people dont want every game to be elder ring garbage copy. Whats next stamina so we cannot spam attacks? ability to swing weapon from right to left like in elden ring as only attacks and useless skills made for pvp meme?

Just face it, people hate the vision because vison is to make poe2 as unfun as possible.

Maps are garbage, still no only real solution (back to drawing board) and GGG still thinks there is no issue, ofc its players that are issue for them
There is no loot, no gear, no currency - but ofc that is vision, im in act3 cruel using act1 gear BECAUSE NOTHING BETTER DROPPED and few currency i used rolled light radius and lower requirements
Mobs are still sponges and and hit like nuke, my best geared as it can be with what i got huntress gets one tapped by pretty much everything and i survive only because i made 1button build that knocksbacks entire screen so only rangers can hit me
Bosses can one tap almost any character but screen is so cluttered its impossible to avoid everything in first place
0.2 is step back in every way to already not so good 0.1

I find much more issue with people that prise and gulp every garbage thrown by devs and treat devs like some gods. I wonder why devs refuse to play campaign live? oh wait they dont know how to play it, last time we had admin leaks we seen they test game with 200% loot drop and other admin hacks.

PS. i dont watch any streamers and dont care about any of them, they are cancer and no game should cater to them but that dosnt mean they are automatically wrong.

Yeah, apart from the fact that the game didn't flop (No Rest). It's just a very small Early Access release with performance issues and nearly no content New updates are coming.

Wow, extremely funny narrative just to prove a point where you're generally wrong. Regarding loot, currency, or gear, I actually made a post earlier. It's an absolutely invalid argument.

For me, it's clear that the vision is great and it's exactly what the majority of the playerbase wants. Those few crybabies and the blind herd following streamers are just a vocal minority. Always the loudest in the room, but definitely not the most important.

Originally posted by Banana:

Originally posted by Grishark:

Valid, but naive—and I was in the same place not so long ago before I actually watched how they play. I literally spent a few hours watching their videos. It's atrocious. Who even wants to watch this and what for? There's no value in it, unless they break the build and can finally play properly. I'll always refer to my favorite example, ds_lily, who decided to run around the map, aggro every mob, stand in one place for 5 seconds, die, and then say 'this game has some issues.' Come on.

I never watch any of them play actually, all i know is everyone copy their build, and i just want to go in the game blind and learn everything myself. My friend said why i dont become game youtuber (they always come to ask my advise), i said because i never play meta op flashy build, my youtube wont attract any gamers, lol

I'm not a fan either, although I wanted to see what's so special about them.

Absolutely nothing.

[truehunter]

If this is what the game is, makes it easy for me to never play it again. Enjoy!

[Grishark]

Originally posted by truehunter:

If this is what the game is, makes it easy for me to never play it again. Enjoy!

Exactly my point. Cheers!

[Carian Champion]

Originally posted by Banana:

Originally posted by Grishark:

Valid, but naive—and I was in the same place not so long ago before I actually watched how they play. I literally spent a few hours watching their videos. It's atrocious. Who even wants to watch this and what for? There's no value in it, unless they break the build and can finally play properly. I'll always refer to my favorite example, ds_lily, who decided to run around the map, aggro every mob, stand in one place for 5 seconds, die, and then say 'this game has some issues.' Come on.

I never watch any of them play actually, all i know is everyone copy their build, and i just want to go in the game blind and learn everything myself. My friend said why dont i become game youtuber (they always come to ask my advise), i said because i never play meta op flashy build, my youtube wont attract any gamers, lol
Actually i also found that some youtuber give solid information of this game dont have much audiences, i guess people just no interest to learn anything.

Your approach works for Single-player Games. This ♥♥♥♥ has no loot and a trade, not playing meta builds means never keeping up with the market. When you're out of the market, you don't progress at all.