Durability loss, punishment for dying

[Mike1304]

Will this game be more beginner-friendly than Diablo IV?
In D4 I hate that you are penalized when you die by losing the durability of all your equipment.
I fully understand that some want hardcore modes but at least for noobs, who just want to enjoy the story, there should be an option to not get punished by dying (for example after having spent a lot of time already trying to defeat a boss, which is punishment enough IMO…).
If I don’t lose anything of my hard grinded progress and there is no durability of my gear at all then I will prefer this game to D4…

[serotoninpack]

There's no such thing in this game.

[The_Driver]

There has been no indication of them adding in item durability.

There might be a death penalty akin to PoE 1, where you lose experience (but can't unlevel from it). They stated they want no/nearly no death penalty early on (kind of like in part 1, where dying is free during the first 5 acts, 5% exp loss in the second part of the campaign (so about 2 groups of monsters to regain)) and an increased on later.

They've now announced that dying in a map (so during most (?) endgame gameplay) prevents you from reentry. That might very well be it. It'll likely be costly enough to run juiced maps though, so it could be rough, depending on your gamble. (Expect non-juiced maps to be basically free.)

[BadToast]

There's no durability in PoE.

PoE2 will have an XP penalty in end-game only confirmed during an interview with Kripp. We don't know specific details, in PoE1 it's 10% XP per death. You can't de-level though.

[Mike1304]

Originally posted by The_Driver:

They've now announced that dying in a map (so during most (?) endgame gameplay) prevents you from reentry. That might very well be it. It'll likely be costly enough to run juiced maps though, so it could be rough, depending on your gamble. (Expect non-juiced maps to be basically free.)

Thanks for your answers but can you explain what you mean with „prevents you from „reentry“ and „juiced maps“? If you die you have no second chance to continue your progress?
And how’s the difficulty for noobs? Is it more a Souls-like or can you enjoy easy gameplay, follow the story, be able to save game whenever you want, …? Are there difficulty settings? I‘m interested in a single player experience like Grim Dawn…
D4 is not like that because too difficult for me and has durability and punishment for dying…

[The_Driver]

Originally posted by Mike1304:

Originally posted by The_Driver:

They've now announced that dying in a map (so during most (?) endgame gameplay) prevents you from reentry. That might very well be it. It'll likely be costly enough to run juiced maps though, so it could be rough, depending on your gamble. (Expect non-juiced maps to be basically free.)

Thanks for your answers but can you explain what you mean with „prevents you from „reentry“ and „juiced maps“? If you die you have no second chance to continue your progress?

Sure, in endgame, you do "maps", basically randomized instances of gameplay, depending on your speed, size, rng etc you might be doing 10-20 maps an hour, but it can vary quite a bit. (Like there are strategies in PoE1 where you do 30s per map, just do one very specific thing in them and jump to the next. Some players will instead go very methodically and slow and take 5 or even 15 minutes per map) You get 6 entry portals per map, can use them for yourself to get in multiple times (e.g. to empty inventory or bring stuff into the map (e.g. more currency to modify strongboxes)) or they can be used up by teammates.

If you die during a map in PoE 2 you won't be able to get to that specific instance anymore, regardless of entrance portals left. Your teammates can still continue it. There are enough other instances you can create to continue gameplay.

BUT: Many players invest currency into their maps in some form to spice them up, juice them, if you want. Risk vs reward. You add enemies, modifiers to the environment, enemies or yourself to increase the risk while also improving your chances or getting more chances at loot. You could e.g. have enemies do more damage in return for a couple of % of item rarity, that sort of thing. The more you invest, the more you risk and the higher the rewards get.

It's not always in the form of currency directly, might be one of those "tablets" that modify maps when put into a tower nearby, they might be worth something (and are craftable themselves, so you can use your currency items to modify them to... get better rewards with some added risk)

Originally posted by Mike1304:

Are there difficulty settings? I‘m interested in a single player experience like Grim Dawn…
D4 is not like that because too difficult for me and has durability and punishment for dying…

Through the risk/reward thing with modifiers everywhere, on the waystones to open maps, on tablets to modify maps, your atlas passive to modify maps, through the specialized trees for content (e.g. bossing; bosses and specific mechanics have difficulty tiers through trees) you can fine tune the difficulty. Also, there are 16ish tiers of gameplay at endgame, that link to the level of enemies (In PoE 1 tier 1 maps are monsterlevel 68, then add one monsterlevel per tier of map; PoE 2 might have slightly different values here, seeing their slide with lvl 65 for endgame).

Monsters don't scale based on your characterlevel, so you aren't punished for leveling up.

The campaign before the endgame probably can't be influenced in difficulty too much, but as you can just get a few more levels, do some optional bosses you skipped to get permanent bonuses or grind more items you shouldn't get stuck indefinitely.

That being said, and balance being up for change, gameplay demos of the camnpaign generally seemed have pretty short time-to-kill (you).

[Hosenbund]

Lol..you are seriously asking if this game will be MORE beginner friendly than diablo 4?

If you think diablo isnt beginner friendly, then you will want to scratch your eyes out in this one

but no there is no durability loss in this one, that doesnt make it easier though

PoE2 is gonna be 10 times harder and 100 times more complex

[Chiryuu]

Originally posted by BadToast:

There's no durability in PoE.

PoE2 will have an XP penalty in end-game only confirmed during an interview with Kripp. We don't know specific details, in PoE1 it's 10% XP per death. You can't de-level though.

That's worse than durabilty lose tbh :(.

[Sabrehawk]

who in the history of mankind has had repair costs in D4 be a problem or even be making any noticeable whatsoever on your gold balance... well it seems we found that singular individual...

[Hosenbund]

Originally posted by Chiryuu:

Originally posted by BadToast:

There's no durability in PoE.

PoE2 will have an XP penalty in end-game only confirmed during an interview with Kripp. We don't know specific details, in PoE1 it's 10% XP per death. You can't de-level though.

That's worse than durabilty lose tbh :(.

No. there needs to be some kind of penalty for softcore players when they die. otherwise there is ZERO incentive to try to survive, which makes it in turn boring because nothing matters.

If you die that often for it to hold you back then either your build is garbage or your skill is garbage

For people like OP this doesnt even matter though cause he only wants to play the story and leave.
But if he found D4 hard, then he surely will find this game even way harder anyways

[Chiryuu]

Originally posted by Hosenbund:

Originally posted by Chiryuu:

That's worse than durabilty lose tbh :(.

No. there needs to be some kind of penalty for softcore players when they die. otherwise there is ZERO incentive to try to survive, which makes it in turn boring because nothing matters.

If you die that often for it to hold you back then either your build is garbage or your skill is garbage

There is a reason it's called softcore, it's for casual players that just want to have some fun from time to time. Losing xp for dying will be just annoyance. If you want hardcore experience, go HC.

[Hosenbund]

Originally posted by Chiryuu:

Originally posted by Hosenbund:

No. there needs to be some kind of penalty for softcore players when they die. otherwise there is ZERO incentive to try to survive, which makes it in turn boring because nothing matters.

If you die that often for it to hold you back then either your build is garbage or your skill is garbage

There is a reason it's called softcore, it's for casual players that just want to have some fun from time to time. Losing xp for dying will be just annoyance. If you want hardcore experience, go HC.

Maybe you should go back to your korean p2w games, in which good game design gets replaced with MTX and p2w

[Charnel]

Ever thought about Gitting Gud?

[Chiryuu]

Originally posted by Hosenbund:

Originally posted by Chiryuu:

There is a reason it's called softcore, it's for casual players that just want to have some fun from time to time. Losing xp for dying will be just annoyance. If you want hardcore experience, go HC.

Maybe you should go back to your korean p2w games, in which good game design gets replaced with MTX and p2w

Good game design = punishing casual players.
Nice logic there.

[Mike1304]

Originally posted by The_Driver:

Originally posted by Mike1304:

Thanks for your answers but can you explain what you mean with „prevents you from „reentry“ and „juiced maps“? If you die you have no second chance to continue your progress?

Sure, in endgame, you do "maps", basically randomized instances of gameplay, depending on your speed, size, rng etc you might be doing 10-20 maps an hour, but it can vary quite a bit. (Like there are strategies in PoE1 where you do 30s per map, just do one very specific thing in them and jump to the next. Some players will instead go very methodically and slow and take 5 or even 15 minutes per map) You get 6 entry portals per map, can use them for yourself to get in multiple times (e.g. to empty inventory or bring stuff into the map (e.g. more currency to modify strongboxes)) or they can be used up by teammates.

If you die during a map in PoE 2 you won't be able to get to that specific instance anymore, regardless of entrance portals left. Your teammates can still continue it. There are enough other instances you can create to continue gameplay.

BUT: Many players invest currency into their maps in some form to spice them up, juice them, if you want. Risk vs reward. You add enemies, modifiers to the environment, enemies or yourself to increase the risk while also improving your chances or getting more chances at loot. You could e.g. have enemies do more damage in return for a couple of % of item rarity, that sort of thing. The more you invest, the more you risk and the higher the rewards get.

It's not always in the form of currency directly, might be one of those "tablets" that modify maps when put into a tower nearby, they might be worth something (and are craftable themselves, so you can use your currency items to modify them to... get better rewards with some added risk)

Originally posted by Mike1304:

Are there difficulty settings? I‘m interested in a single player experience like Grim Dawn…
D4 is not like that because too difficult for me and has durability and punishment for dying…

Through the risk/reward thing with modifiers everywhere, on the waystones to open maps, on tablets to modify maps, your atlas passive to modify maps, through the specialized trees for content (e.g. bossing; bosses and specific mechanics have difficulty tiers through trees) you can fine tune the difficulty. Also, there are 16ish tiers of gameplay at endgame, that link to the level of enemies (In PoE 1 tier 1 maps are monsterlevel 68, then add one monsterlevel per tier of map; PoE 2 might have slightly different values here, seeing their slide with lvl 65 for endgame).

Monsters don't scale based on your characterlevel, so you aren't punished for leveling up.

The campaign before the endgame probably can't be influenced in difficulty too much, but as you can just get a few more levels, do some optional bosses you skipped to get permanent bonuses or grind more items you shouldn't get stuck indefinitely.

That being said, and balance being up for change, gameplay demos of the camnpaign generally seemed have pretty short time-to-kill (you).

Thank you very much for your detailed info. Much appreciated!

[Mike1304]

Originally posted by Sabrehawk:

who in the history of mankind has had repair costs in D4 be a problem or even be making any noticeable whatsoever on your gold balance... well it seems we found that singular individual...

I wouldn't say it's a "problem". I just don't like it. I have other game genres and real life things where I sink my time but I also wouldn't mind hacking and slashing through hords of enemies in a top down perspective single-player-game just for fun without losing my progress/loot and without P2W-mechanics...
You might say: then this game is not for you. But that's why I was asking... ;-)