The worst part about POE2 is its focus on classes

[Sexcalibur]

The success of Poe was about its openness

Solidifying class identity only serves to hinder build diversity

Wanna be a summoner, you are pigeonholed into a Witch necromancer

Should have went the opposite direction with Poe2, rather than adding stiffness to build diversity they should have given it more flexibility

Instead of putting so much focus on “this class is the class you pick if you wanna do this type of build” they should have went with open ascendencies

Every class can be any ascendency, your class being a model, story and a starting location on the tree, which for some sound meaningless but for people that know the game know it’s a major component of build building

Being open ascendencies would have allowed so much more diversity

Wanna be a summoner? Pick necromancer
Wanna stack STR for items like The Baron that boosts you minions the more str you have? Then pick Warrior class which spawns in a STR rich area

Congratz you are now a Warrior Necromancer

Really wanna add “class identity”, which is a crap concept that adds nothing to gameplay?

Then add it through proficiency rather than restrictions

Ie: each class has x% effect bonus on active nodes in their tree region

This would be an identity defining factor, a strong one that doesn’t force you to anything

But nah, they better force you to take a specific class for a specific archetype

I’ve been playing this game for 13 years and this is one of their many “Diablofication” moment

[lmaogg]

??

It's literally just PoE1 with a tweak in combat speed, QoL improvements. The classes are pretty much the same as PoE1, you choose where to start from on the massive tree and what ascendency you want to focus into.

[Sexcalibur]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Personally I prefer a stronger class identity.

I love how people can’t see identity coming from something else than forced restrictions


Rather than choices, what truly defines identity


Ascendencies being open is more choice more identity defining factors

The way ascendencies work right now is like “hey you are a tall guy, you can only become a basketball player, ♥♥♥♥ your dreams of being a lawyer, should have been born shorter”

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Originally posted by Brian9824:

Not sure what the OP is talking about. In PoE 1 if you went Marauder you started in Marauder section and was limited to Marauder ascendancies and had nothing but Str nodes around you.

In PoE 2 if you take warrior you start in warrior section, can choose from warrior ascendancies, but can also spec intelligence now instead of strength making PoE far less class focused.

Both games the class determines your ascendancy choice

Where did I say it wasn’t a poe1 issue as well?

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

I’ve been playing this game for 13 years and this is one of their many “Diablofication” moment

and

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

The worst part about POE2 is its focus on classes

The success of Poe was about its openness

If you've been playing for 13 years they haven't changed anything except made it far more open. It sounds like you really don't know anything about PoE 2. PoE's success was based on exactly how PoE 2 is.

Nothing wrong with classes, it encourages people to make more then 1 char rather then have 1 generic char that can be constantly respecced into every class in the game

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Wanna be a summoner? Pick necromancer
Wanna stack STR for items like The Baron that boosts you minions the more str you have? Then pick Warrior class which spawns in a STR rich area

There isn't even any such thing a STR rich area in PoE 2..... You SELECT want attributes you want instead of them being fixed on an Attribute node. So you can select Str nodes on a witch starting area if you want

[gachi is manly]

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Where did I say it wasn’t a poe1 issue as well?

You pretty much insinuated it wasn't a problem in PoE1 with that title and opening lines:

"The success of Poe was about its openness

Solidifying class identity only serves to hinder build diversity"

I have no idea why you're trying to move the goalposts now.

And yea, as the above poster said, you're even less restricted now that attribute travel nodes can be whatever stat you want.

[Sexcalibur]

Originally posted by gachi is manly:

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Where did I say it wasn’t a poe1 issue as well?

And yea, as the above poster said, you're even less restricted now.

Cool can’t wait to transform into a demon as the warrior

[Pushet]

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Originally posted by Farsha:

Dude they were introduced in 2016.
You could either get used to them or just started playing a different game.
It's not like you even need that feature to make a decent character.
If you don't get the right ascendancy your character will be what 5% less powerful in the end?
Yea huge problem...

The problem is that in Poe 2 they are pushing the “5%” way further

Lol they arent. In further interviews they cleared up that they specifically do not want to have a dedicated "Necromancer" they very clearly want people to experiment with ascendancies and skills.

The current showcase is only a "this is a recommended way of playing" in order to give a good guideline for new players.

[Sexcalibur]

Originally posted by Pushet:

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

they very clearly want people to experiment with ascendancies and skills.

Then they should have not locked them behind class choice

Have them as a choice open to all classes

12 class * 3 ascendency

Clearly has less ascendency experimentation potential than

12 classes * 36 ascendencies

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Personally I prefer a stronger class identity.

I love how people can’t see identity coming from something else than forced restrictions


Rather than choices, what truly defines identity


Ascendencies being open is more choice more identity defining factors

The way ascendencies work right now is like “hey you are a tall guy, you can only become a basketball player, ♥♥♥♥ your dreams of being a lawyer, should have been born shorter”

That you simply dismiss anyone else's opinion as being somehow defective says more about you than anyone else.

Choices do determine identity. I'm buying a game from professional game developers, I'm paying them to create me a game to enjoy, their choices give aspects of that game identity.

Also on the subject of choice, picking which class to play is one such choice. As the developers add more exclusive content to each class, that choice becomes more meaningful. If all classes were the same, a meaningful choice has been taken away from me, becoming little more than a trivial cosmetic distinction.

You talk about this being a question of choice versus no choice, but the reality is that it's merely a question of which choices the player makes and which ones are more or less meaningful.

Many of us, myself included, see the increased distinction between classes as adding meaningful choice rather than removing it. After all, what meaning is there in the ability to choose to make a summoner from a warrior as opposed to a witch? At the end of the day you've still made a summoner build, except it's warrior-shaped rather than witch-shaped and you have a different passive tree start position. That is an example of a meaningless choice.

[gachi is manly]

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Cool can’t wait to transform into a demon as the warrior

You might just get that wish. Seems like a no brainer to have demon transformation on a unique item as well. Much like you can get rage from a unique or support instead of playing berserker.

[Dailao]

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

The success of Poe was about its openness

Solidifying class identity only serves to hinder build diversity

I can see what you mean by this.. personally I like it more because of it though, and I think it will also be a lot more attractive to people who usually don't qualify as the hardcore audience.

[Hosenbund]

Originally posted by Dailao:

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

The success of Poe was about its openness

Solidifying class identity only serves to hinder build diversity

I can see what you mean by this.. personally I like it more because of it though, and I think it will also be a lot more attractive to people who usually don't qualify as the hardcore audience.

I dont think this is related to being hardcore or casual.. like how would it be?
If they have classes, then there should be something which defines the classes.
Otherwise why have classes in the first place

[dopbop_]

the warrior literally summoned something theres probably skills that will aswell as supports that are not shown yet relax

[Sexcalibur]

Originally posted by Hosenbund:

Originally posted by Dailao:

I can see what you mean by this.. personally I like it more because of it though, and I think it will also be a lot more attractive to people who usually don't qualify as the hardcore audience.

I dont think this is related to being hardcore or casual.. like how would it be?
If they have classes, then there should be something which defines the classes.
Otherwise why have classes in the first place

That’s my point

Restrictions as class identity definer is bad design

Good design for class identity is Proficiency


Let me just give you an example

Let’s say ascendencies are not gated behind classes anymore

But rather are placed on the tree in the tree region they fit

Let’s use necromancer, it would then be placed in the minion mode rich area of the tree

As in poe1 this is near the witch starting point

This is a first advantage given to the witch for the necromancer without hard restriction

Then you could have a class base perk that make it so “passives within your class region has x% more effect”


Congratz you just created a Identity rich system allowing and based on choice… no forced restrictions that hinder build diversity

A warrior could travel to the witch region of the tree, pick up necromancer ascendency and have a viable Warrior Necromancer build

[Hosenbund]

Originally posted by Sexcalibur:

Originally posted by Hosenbund:

I dont think this is related to being hardcore or casual.. like how would it be?
If they have classes, then there should be something which defines the classes.
Otherwise why have classes in the first place

That’s my point

Restrictions as class identity definer is bad design

Good design for class identity is Proficiency


Let me just give you an example

Let’s say ascendencies are not gated behind classes anymore

But rather are placed on the tree in the tree region they fit

Let’s use necromancer, it would then be placed in the minion mode rich area of the tree

As in poe1 this is near the witch starting point

This is a first advantage given to the witch for the necromancer without hard restriction

Then you could have a class base perk that make it so “passives within your class region has x% more effect”


Congratz you just created a Identity rich system allowing and based on choice… no forced restrictions that hinder build diversity

A warrior could travel to the witch region of the tree, pick up necromancer ascendency and have a viable Warrior Necromancer build

yea..if its in reach to other stuff you want.
otherwise its just as unreachable to certain classes as it is right now, because you have to gimp yourself to get it

I get your preference, but i dont mind how it is done here

[Sexcalibur]

Originally posted by dr goose:

the warrior literally summoned something theres probably skills that will aswell as supports that are not shown yet relax

I’m not talking about the skills gems, everybody knows they are open to every classes

Im talking about unique perk or immense buffs giving to certain ascendencies gated behind certain classes that render certain build archetype a no brainer to pick that ascendency

Killing the openness of its build diversity

Being “able” to make a summoner with a warrior is meaningless if the necromancer is 200% more efficient

In this kind of situation, no ascendency flavour theorycrafting can come up with something competitive

This is the death of build creativity that brings variety like

bAMA

- necromancer for minion perks
- deadeye for cooldown recovery perk
- saboteur to traps perk
- champion for taunt perk