Advanced cannon range and accuracy?

[RlyShadow]

Still learning the game some but improving every time. Lately I've been trying to build an advanced cannon, and was wondering what it's effective range to accuracy ratio is. Of the cannons I've belt with multiple different gauges, shell types, etc, anything past 3k seems like I'm just lobbing and hoping to hit. While at 3k seems to hit with at least at 90 to 95% accuracy. I've been on adventure mode and it sucks when the AI are sniping me from 5k and I'm defenseless until at least 3.

[FourGreenFields]

The game is generally balanced around short range (2km? Maybe 2.5km). APS are "long-ranged" so expect that to be the effective range of a moderately accurate + high-velocity gun.

Considering you didn't mention it in the OP: Velocity matters. Helps if the enemy turns, and reduces inaccuracy from inaccurate detection.

Not sure how that combines with adventure mode. That's not the main game-mode, so may or may not have some imbalanced stuff there.

[RlyShadow]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

The game is generally balanced around short range (2km? Maybe 2.5km). APS are "long-ranged" so expect that to be the effective range of a moderately accurate + high-velocity gun.

Considering you didn't mention it in the OP: Velocity matters. Helps if the enemy turns, and reduces inaccuracy from inaccurate detection.

Not sure how that combines with adventure mode. That's not the main game-mode, so may or may not have some imbalanced stuff there.

I do understand campaign battles are alittle smaller but I was in designer working on my gun system to retro fit and spawned AI from 3 to 5k and they starting eating me up while my cannon doesn't do much. If it was more accurate it would be lethal. I've debating on switching to frag so I can't miss at those longer ranges lol

[Cmdr_McBragg]

Learning myself, but if your accuracy is dropping off fairly significantly beyond 3K then maybe your detection system is only good out to 3K. You might also be able to improve accuracy at longer ranges by adding a gravity compensator to the shell and increasing the barrel length to shell length ratio.

[RlyShadow]

Originally posted by Cmdr_McBragg:

Learning myself, but if your accuracy is dropping off fairly significantly beyond 3K then maybe your detection system is only good out to 3K. You might also be able to improve accuracy at longer ranges by adding a gravity compensator to the shell and increasing the barrel length to shell length ratio.

I'm not sure how I would improve my detection system more, and it's not so much gravity. I built the barrel 4m longer then needed for max shell burn and recoil isn't the problem. Even added fin stabs to the shell. I've manually fired the shells and they usually fly passed the target, not fall short. Would it be better for the gun to have its own detection system and not rely on the boats?

[Eudaimonia]

1. As mentioned the game is designed for fights within 2km range. There are some very few craft that go outside this to challenge the player, but it does cause detection, balance, and most importantly fun issues.

2. Detection data is shared by everything on that craft, there is no such thing as detection belonging to a turret, an AI or whatever else. The different AI can be configured to use the data differently when aiming, but they still use the same information.

3. To get good detection you use the leftmost column when selecting what to place, the trackers. Camera and IR give angle, radar and laser give distance. All that other stuff are detectors, and their main job is simply telling the trackers where to point.

4. To get good accuracy on a gun you never want to use rail draw, but it is also extremely rare for the fins to be a good thing. The main way to increase the accuracy of a weapon is simply to make the barrel longer or use a lower gauge (barrel effect depends on gauge).

5. When shooting at targets at a long range the accuracy of the weapon isn't as important as you would think. Sure the error goes up exponentially as distance increases, but the main reason why you will miss at such ranges is muzzle velocity. If the enemy has time to move before the shell arrives, then the hitrate is naturally going to suffer. If you're fighting at ranges like that you really should be using kinetic shells, which usually means 1600m/s+ muzzle velocity.

[RlyShadow]

Originally posted by Eudaimonia:

1. As mentioned the game is designed for fights within 2km range. There are some very few craft that go outside this to challenge the player, but it does cause detection, balance, and most importantly fun issues.

2. Detection data is shared by everything on that craft, there is no such thing as detection belonging to a turret, an AI or whatever else. The different AI can be configured to use the data differently when aiming, but they still use the same information.

3. To get good detection you use the leftmost column when selecting what to place, the trackers. Camera and IR give angle, radar and laser give distance. All that other stuff are detectors, and their main job is simply telling the trackers where to point.

4. To get good accuracy on a gun you never want to use rail draw, but it is also extremely rare for the fins to be a good thing. The main way to increase the accuracy of a weapon is simply to make the barrel longer or use a lower gauge (barrel effect depends on gauge).

5. When shooting at targets at a long range the accuracy of the weapon isn't as important as you would think. Sure the error goes up exponentially as distance increases, but the main reason why you will miss at such ranges is muzzle velocity. If the enemy has time to move before the shell arrives, then the hitrate is naturally going to suffer. If you're fighting at ranges like that you really should be using kinetic shells, which usually means 1600m/s+ muzzle velocity.

Currently I've been trying to make about a 150mm cannon and I only used fins to test. My shell velocity tends to be around 1400+ms.. perhaps I need a better RoF for increased chances but low enough for recoil to not cause a problem.

[Major0Noob]

i play adventure mode too, its just the enemy movement throwing off the 2-3s future position guess.
try get 0m detection error, use lots of things with 1.0 range (90 degree versions) and as high detection rate as possible.

gonna have to disagree with eudaimonia about fins, at adventure mode ranges the spread has a huge impact. since were in adventure mode efficiency and effectiveness should be low priorities. it really is a different play style than in the campaign.

funny enough, with a sabot, tracer, and fin you can use much less recoil absorbers. you can see for yourself; edit the shell and remove some absorbers.

also try get 0.15 base accuracy, don't mind noodle barrels; like a dozen godlies have em they're just well decorated.
to make yours look good just extend the rear of the turret and put the firing piece there.

my last adventure mode ship had 2km/s 300m, 30% accuracy rails, and fins. it's still in lvl 100

[RlyShadow]

Originally posted by Major0Noob:

i play adventure mode too, its just the enemy movement throwing off the 2-3s future position guess.
try get 0m detection error, use lots of things with 1.0 range (90 degree versions) and as high detection rate as possible.

gonna have to disagree with eudaimonia about fins, at adventure mode ranges the spread has a huge impact. since were in adventure mode efficiency and effectiveness should be low priorities. it really is a different play style than in the campaign.

funny enough, with a sabot, tracer, and fin you can use much less recoil absorbers. you can see for yourself; edit the shell and remove some absorbers.

also try get 0.15 base accuracy, don't mind noodle barrels; like a dozen godlies have em they're just well decorated.
to make yours look good just extend the rear of the turret and put the firing piece there.

my last adventure mode ship had 2km/s 300m, 30% accuracy rails, and fins. it's still in lvl 100

As i said i had my effective at 3k ranges, with 0.1 accuracy, so it said, but the detection system is something i possible need to learn about. As i stated above perhaps i need the gun to have it's own detection system. A system on the ship to locate enemies and the main tracking systems on the weapons them self so the information getting fed into the gun, is basically from the guns point of view.

[Eudaimonia]

Putting the detection on the turret won't change anything, it doesn't matter where the detection is placed as long as it can see the enemy. Just make sure that you have a couple of each type of tracker, some detectors and enough GPPP, and this will give you the best accuracy you can get without doing something crazy. And remember to adjust the averaging for the target prediction in the detection UI!

[The n00b A]

Detection systems in this game have some hidden properties. Alloys will barely show on radar and rubber will barely be detected by sonars.

Also, you have to take into account the timers of the detection system and the detection points. Weapons with fast projectiles such as lasers dont/barely need to predict the targets trajectory so lower timers (like 0.5s) are better. However, lower timers on big crafts can make the detection system target "everywhere" because bigger targets "jiggle" around, so you need more time to process their location (1-2 seconds). (As an advice, use at least 15 points override. 5 points is enough for close range but 20 is what i end up using mostly when above 1km)

At 3k with a speed of 1400m/s you need to predict 2 seconds ahead of your target. Depending on the size of the target and on its speed, could be impossible to hit at that distance with that shell speed.

To see how your systems are detecting the targets future position, click on the "Eye" in the corner of the screen (i think its the eye, i cant remember). There will be a black line with a X coming out of the target (thats the trajectory prediction line) and a red one (thats the current bearing and range one).

This might help visualize it better. Trusting the "1m detection error" is not reliable because its the detection range self evaluation; but it is a good indicator.


On that note, a cheap way to increase APS accuracy if your RPM is higher than 60 is to use tracers. The expensive for low RPM is rails. You can also try and use supercavitation shells to target below water line.

Finally, a good mathematical way to know how much accuracy you need/your max accurate range for the gun is "tan (inaccuracy) x distance (in meters)". Your 0.1º inaccuracy has a 5m radius of inaccuracy at 3km, so unless you're shooting flyers its kinda overkill.

[RlyShadow]

Originally posted by The n00b A:

Detection systems in this game have some hidden properties. Alloys will barely show on radar and rubber will barely be detected by sonars.

Also, you have to take into account the timers of the detection system and the detection points. Weapons with fast projectiles such as lasers dont/barely need to predict the targets trajectory so lower timers (like 0.5s) are better. However, lower timers on big crafts can make the detection system target "everywhere" because bigger targets "jiggle" around, so you need more time to process their location (1-2 seconds). (As an advice, use at least 15 points override. 5 points is enough for close range but 20 is what i end up using mostly when above 1km)

At 3k with a speed of 1400m/s you need to predict 2 seconds ahead of your target. Depending on the size of the target and on its speed, could be impossible to hit at that distance with that shell speed.

To see how your systems are detecting the targets future position, click on the "Eye" in the corner of the screen (i think its the eye, i cant remember). There will be a black line with a X coming out of the target (thats the trajectory prediction line) and a red one (thats the current bearing and range one).

This might help visualize it better. Trusting the "1m detection error" is not reliable because its the detection range self evaluation; but it is a good indicator.


On that note, a cheap way to increase APS accuracy if your RPM is higher than 60 is to use tracers. The expensive for low RPM is rails. You can also try and use supercavitation shells to target below water line.

Finally, a good mathematical way to know how much accuracy you need/your max accurate range for the gun is "tan (inaccuracy) x distance (in meters)". Your 0.1º inaccuracy has a 5m radius of inaccuracy at 3km, so unless you're shooting flyers its kinda overkill.

I ended up starting over but I was finally able to make a gun with fairly reliable hits at 5km. Not really sure what was really different, perhaps the boats stability was alittle better but the gun worked like a charm.

[The n00b A]

Originally posted by RlyShadow:

Originally posted by The n00b A:

Detection systems in this game have some hidden properties. Alloys will barely show on radar and rubber will barely be detected by sonars.

Also, you have to take into account the timers of the detection system and the detection points. Weapons with fast projectiles such as lasers dont/barely need to predict the targets trajectory so lower timers (like 0.5s) are better. However, lower timers on big crafts can make the detection system target "everywhere" because bigger targets "jiggle" around, so you need more time to process their location (1-2 seconds). (As an advice, use at least 15 points override. 5 points is enough for close range but 20 is what i end up using mostly when above 1km)

At 3k with a speed of 1400m/s you need to predict 2 seconds ahead of your target. Depending on the size of the target and on its speed, could be impossible to hit at that distance with that shell speed.

To see how your systems are detecting the targets future position, click on the "Eye" in the corner of the screen (i think its the eye, i cant remember). There will be a black line with a X coming out of the target (thats the trajectory prediction line) and a red one (thats the current bearing and range one).

This might help visualize it better. Trusting the "1m detection error" is not reliable because its the detection range self evaluation; but it is a good indicator.


On that note, a cheap way to increase APS accuracy if your RPM is higher than 60 is to use tracers. The expensive for low RPM is rails. You can also try and use supercavitation shells to target below water line.

Finally, a good mathematical way to know how much accuracy you need/your max accurate range for the gun is "tan (inaccuracy) x distance (in meters)". Your 0.1º inaccuracy has a 5m radius of inaccuracy at 3km, so unless you're shooting flyers its kinda overkill.

I ended up starting over but I was finally able to make a gun with fairly reliable hits at 5km. Not really sure what was really different, perhaps the boats stability was alittle better but the gun worked like a charm.

This reminds me that APS default inaccuracy in their menu is 2º. I always forget to set them to the minimum value.... Its annoying.